Myth of the spit on veteran

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I love it when the conservative myths like the "spat upon vet" fall apart on scrutiny and dissolve when faced with the facts.......enjoy!

 

Spat on our soldiers returning from Vietnam is a great story, but like many right-wing myths it is simply not true. Jerry Lembcke, an associate professor of sociology at Holy Cross College, did an exhaustive search in the process of writing his 1998 book, The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory and the Legacy of Vietnam. He found not a single case of a returning Vietnam veteran spat upon by antiwar activists. The relation between Vietnam veterans and the peace movement was generally good, since the antiwar people saw the mostly working class vets as just as much victims of the war machine as the Vietnamese peasants. We should remember that in that war, as many as 550,000 GIs went AWOL or deserted. A Harris Poll in 1971 showed that only 1% of the veterans encountered hostile reactions when they came home, and they did not think the antiwar movement was hostile to them.

 

 

There are practically no reports of spitting during the war itself (1965-75). The first reported instance occurs during an International Day of Protest featuring "Veterans for Peace in Vietnam." Here it is the war supporters who are spitting on the pro-peace veterans. In 1965, World War II veterans who were taking part in an antiwar demonstration were reviled as "cowards" and "traitors."

 

 

Lembcke was not able to find a single photograph, news story, or FBI report of veterans being spat upon (remember, the FBI did obsessive surveillance of the peace movements). He tried to track down individuals who said they had been spat upon or witnessed it, but they "dissolved on scrutiny" and others "betrayed lack of authenticity"—which, I assume, means they lied. So what is going on here?

 

 

Vietnam veterans did not come home in bulk at the end of the war as WWII vets did; they dribbled back after their usually one-year tour of duty. As the war progressed, thousands of WWII and Vietnam vets turned against the war. The Nixon administration launched a campaign to differentiate between "good" (pro-war) vets and "bad" (antiwar) vets. Spiro Agnew, who would soon be hounded out of office as a felon, led the charge. Overnight, conservatives changed the debate from "our objectives in Southeast Asia" (anti-communism, democracy) to "supporting our men who are fighting the war." (Everyone will remember a similar shift during the Gulf War.)

 

 

The single image of the spat-upon Vietnam veteran became the perfect myth of the Nixon-Agnew strategy to discredit the antiwar movement. What solidified the image of the reviled, spat-upon, and eventually crazed Vietnam veteran was the movies. It started in Jane Fonda's Coming Home, where a returning vet is verbally accosted as he returns home: "We don't want your rotten war!" Trouble is, peace activists quietly picketed soldiers going to Vietnam, not returning. But it was the 1977 movie Tracks in which we got the good pro-war veteran and the bad antiwar activist, Mark, who repeatedly spits on his opponents. Hollywood's role in creating the myth of the spat-upon veteran had begun.

 

 

And the end result was Rambo, the crazed Vietnam veteran: "But somebody wouldn't let us win. I come back and see all these maggots at the airport. Protesting me, spitting, calling me a baby-killer. Who are they to protest me? Huh?"

 

 

It's called the manufacture of consent. It is going on now and it's very scary. by Gabrielle Bernard

[cwsox]

a link for the book

 

link for book

 

 

the folks who served in Nam were our friends - at least with all the people that I hung out with all those years, there was never one person who blamed the vets or had the slightest anger for them but only relief they came home alive. Anger at the war was at those who were responsible, not at the working class folks who merely did their duty as they saw fit or felt they had to.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Where are Baggs and CK et al here? C'mon guys, I'd like to see you talk about this. I'll serve your crow in a very delicious way.

[SI1020]

I wanted so badly to discuss this with my dear friend JB, a decorated Viet Nam combat veteran. I wonder what he would have made of this latest rewriting of the war he reluctantly but valiantly fought in. I can't ask him about that or anything else since he died in 1999 of the long term effects of Agent Orange. Never once complained about it while it slowly destroyed his health. He was 48 when he died, looked 30 or more years older. I would have been bitter and angry beyond belief but JB was a much better guy than I'll ever be. He handled it like the classy champion he was. For him and others I knew who fought in Viet Nam this original post offends me. I didn't fight in this war so I guess I have no right. I'm not even sure JB would agree with me. I know he would find fault with some of the history here. He knew many scorned him and his combat buddies and that often this was done to their faces. Ther rewriting of history would amuse him but I'm not sure he would share my anger. He might have told me to lighten up and get us both another beer. I just wish I could ask him.

[southsider2k5]

Agent Orange is a scary thing. My dad had a 9 month tour as a combat engineer before he got hurt in a bombing raid. The effects from Orange have lasted until today. It was a miracle that my brother and I didn't have any problems related to it.

[CubKilla]

Where are Baggs and CK et al here?  C'mon guys, I'd like to see you talk about this.  I'll serve your crow in a very delicious way.

After your comparison of the Iraq War to 09/11, I told you in that thread and, to this day, no longer read the bulls***..... and that's what your political posts are, bulls***..... that you post. But since you called me out, your original post contradicts itself. For example, your original post says that, "not a single case of a returning Vietnam Veteran being spat upon by anti-war activists" was found. Your original post then goes on to say, "1% of the Veterans encountered hostile reactions" and, "(T)here are practically no reports of spitting during the war itself." "Practically no" is not none. And 1% of Veterans encountering any hostile reaction upon return..... spitting or not..... is 1% too much. It then goes on to say that "(Lembcke) tried to track down individuals who said that they had been spat upon or witnessed it, but they 'dissolved on scrutiny' and others 'betrayed lack of authenticity.'" What are these assumptions based on? The article doesn't say so I will assume the assumptions are based on Lembcke's preconceived leftists biases. There is so much more wrong with this article that I could spend days dissecting it, but, I have better things to spend my time on..... like devoting myself to ripping on you in posts.

 

In short, this article, like your posts, reeks of bulls***.

[LDF]

i stop reading most of what you have to post apu. the rhetoric you are spouting is getting really old. this is the first time i am reading this post, and only b/c i saw killa responded to it. i figured it would be entertaining to see what he wrote.

[CubKilla]

i stop reading most of what you have to post apu. the rhetoric you are spouting is getting really old. this is the first time i am reading this post, and only b/c i saw killa responded to it.

I saw it back on Saturday when he originally posted it but I didn't read it. When I see his name as the thread originator, I found the best thing to do is to skip it. I, like you LDF, clicked on this thread for the first time today when I saw that SI posted a reply knowing full well he'd make much more sense than Apu. I only saw that I was called out when I scrolled down to get to SI's reply.

 

I do worry about a guy though who uses a baseball messageboard as his political bully pulpit. I also worry about a guy who, after all his political posturing, thinks that Dennis Kucinich is the best Presidential Candidate out there based on the fact that he's a vegan and a staunch enviromentalist. I guess we should just forget about 09/11 and get back to what's really important..... like tree-hugging and veggie burgers . And, considering Apu is one of Bush's biggest detractors based on his handling of the economy, I thought he would select a Presidential Candidate that didn't bankrupt a whole city (Cleveland) when he was mayor to fix the US economic troubles. Guess I was wrong.

[Spiff]

I do worry about a guy though who uses a baseball messageboard as his political bully pulpit.

Ah but it lets him sleep at night, so it's all good.