Think the Flubs miss Matt Clement?

[Jabroni]

Matt Clement

4-0 record

3.35 ERA

34 SO

17 BB

 

Not to mention the guy they traded for him...

 

Dontrelle Willis

6-0 record

1.07 ERA

35 SO

8 BB

 

Edited May 7, 2005 by Jabroni

[witesoxfan]

Would you give $7-8 mill a year for a guy that was not good for you in the second half of the season when you were trying to make the playoffs?

[Jabroni]

Would you give $7-8 mill a year for a guy that was not good for you in the second half of the season when you were trying to make the playoffs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Considering they are paying Greg Maddux $6 million this year and $9 million next year if he reaches 400+ IP this season for his mediocre twilight years, yes, I'd rather have Clement. Clement outpitched Maddux last year. The only reason his record sucked is because the Flubs never scored any runs in his starts. He could have won 18 games behind the Sox offense last season. Oh yeah, Clement is outpitching Maddux this season as well. Maddux is pitching like a #5 starter. He can barely pitch past 6 innings.

Edited May 7, 2005 by Jabroni

[witesoxfan]

Considering they are paying Greg Maddux $6 million this year and $9 million next year if he reaches 400+ IP this season for his mediocre twilight years, yes, I'd rather have Clement.  Clement outpitched Maddux last year.  The only reason his record sucked is because the Flubs never scored any runs in his starts.  He could have won 18 games behind the Sox offense last season.  Oh yeah, Clement is outpitching Maddux this season as well.  Maddux is pitching like a #5 starter.  He can barely pitch past 6 innings.

 

Please do not make me post Clement's second half stats again. I have seemingly done it a million times.

 

Maddux is not pitching very well right now...he rarely ever does in the first half. His first half ERA last year was 4.51.

[qwerty]

Clement would have had another surgery if he resigned with the cubs within a year. Isn't that obvious?

[witesoxfan]

Clement would have had another surgery if he resigned with the cubs within a year. Isn't that obvious?

 

Actually, knowing the Cubs, it would be like elbow soreness, pulled muscle in the forearm, strained muscle in the forearm, and then a minor surgery called Tommy John that they have to perform that takes a small amount of time of a year and a half to recover from.

[Jabroni]

Please do not make me post Clement's second half stats again.  I have seemingly done it a million times.

 

Maddux is not pitching very well right now...he rarely ever does in the first half.  His first half ERA last year was 4.51.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you are basically saying that Maddux struggled in the first half of the season while Clement struggled in the second half of the season. What's the difference? All the games count so a win in the first half counts as much as a win in the second half, right? By the way, Clement still ended up with a lower ERA than Maddux last season. It's not Clement's fault that the Flubs' offense never scored any runs for him.

Edited May 7, 2005 by Jabroni

[witesoxfan]

So you are basically saying that Maddux struggled in the first half of the season while Clement struggled in the second half of the season.  What's the difference?  All the games count so a win in the first half counts as much as a win in the second half.  By the way, Clement still ended up with a lower ERA than Maddux last season.  It's not Clement's fault that the Flubs' offense never scored any runs for him.

 

Maddux struggled to the tune of mediocrity.

 

Clement struggled to the tune of being bad, as in worse than average.

[Jabroni]

Maddux struggled to the tune of mediocrity.

 

Clement struggled to the tune of being bad, as in worse than average.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So there's a difference between Maddux being crappy to start the season while Clement was lights out and Maddux being better in the second half while Clement struggled? Clement ends up with a 3.68 ERA on the season while Maddux ends up with a 4.02 ERA but Maddux was hands down better than Clement? I don't get it.

Edited May 7, 2005 by Jabroni

[witesoxfan]

So there's a difference between Maddux being crappy to start the season while Clement was lights out and Maddux being better in the second half while Clement struggled?  Clement ends up with a 3.68 ERA on the season while Maddux ends up with a 4.02 ERA but Maddux was hands down better than Clement?  I don't get it.

 

When did I say Maddux was hands down better than Clement? I don't recall that, personally. It may have come off that I thought Maddux had a better season than Clement last year, but in all reality, I do tend to think that. I'd rather have a guy that pitches well for me over a period of time when I absolutely need him to than a guy that will pitch well when the wins are nice and all, but they are not nearly as important(and I have never been a fan of the thought process that wins in April are just as important as those in September...if you are in contention, or are leading a division of some type and the race is close, wins in September are more important than wins in April)

 

I do recall saying that you should not resign a guy that choked for you down the stretch. If Jon Garland put up a 5.50 ERA in the second half of this year, would you still want to give him a 3 to 4 year extension on his contract, especially if him pitching poorly was a reason we did not make the playoffs?

 

It is very, very, very easy to see why the Cubs did not resign Clement.

[Jabroni]

When did I say Maddux was hands down better than Clement?  I don't recall that, personally.  It may have come off that I thought Maddux had a better season than Clement last year, but in all reality, I do tend to think that.  I'd rather have a guy that pitches well for me over a period of time when I absolutely need him to than a guy that will pitch well when the wins are nice and all, but they are not nearly as important(and I have never been a fan of the thought process that wins in April are just as important as those in September...if you are in contention, or are leading a division of some type and the race is close, wins in September are more important than wins in April)

 

I do recall saying that you should not resign a guy that choked for you down the stretch.  If Jon Garland put up a 5.50 ERA in the second half of this year, would you still want to give him a 3 to 4 year extension on his contract, especially if him pitching poorly was a reason we did not make the playoffs?

 

It is very, very, very easy to see why the Cubs did not resign Clement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, because we all know that Hendry and the Cubs always make the right decisions. :headshake Lets see...

 

1.) Hendry gave Maddux a ridiculous contract. If he pitches 400+ innings this season, he will earn $9 million to put up #5 pitcher numbers next season.

 

2.) Hendry PAID to get rid of Sosa.

 

3.) Hendry traded one of the Flubs best relievers (Farnsworth) for minor league scrubs. Keep in mind that one of the minor leaguers (Novoa) just blew a game for them.

 

4.) Hendry failed to sign a closer meaning he let the team go into the season with LaChoke Hawkins in the role again after he failed miserably for them last season.

 

5.) Hendry re-signed Todd Hollandsworth and Jose Macias, two of Busty Baker's favorites. Because of his Busty's veteran fetish, he starts a career bench outfielder in Hollandsworth over a young player with a ton of power and a lot of upside in Jason Dubois. Busty also loves to use Macias, who is horrible mind you, as his first pinch hitter off the bench when Dubois and Ben Grieve are available. Hendry should have known better than to sign these two scrubs, knowing full well that Busty would give them a tot of playing time.

 

6.) Hendry enters the season with many injury-prone players -- Nomar, Kerry Wood, Joe Borowski, Chad Fox, Scott Williamson. The injuries aren't his fault but it's just asking for trouble.

Edited May 7, 2005 by Jabroni

[CWSGuy406]

1.) Hendry gave Maddux a ridiculous contract. If he pitches 400+ innings this season, he will earn $9 million to put up #5 pitcher numbers next season.

 

Am I reading this wrong? I doubt Maddux pitches 400+ innings in one season...

[WHarris1]

Am I reading this wrong?  I doubt Maddux pitches 400+ innings in one season...

Greg Maddux: signed 3-year deal worth 24M on 2/18/04- + he receives salaries of 6M in 2004 and 9M in 2005- + the third year of the deal is a Vesting Option for 2006 worth 9M- + that option vests with 400IP total in 2004 and 2005 combined Agent: Scott Boras

 

It's for 2004 and 2005 combined.

He went 212.2 last year and is on pace for 194 this year.

Edited May 7, 2005 by WHarris1

[Nokona]

What a moron.

[ChWRoCk2]

they better miss clement, no more spinach chins

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Am I reading this wrong?  I doubt Maddux pitches 400+ innings in one season...

 

 

Has anyone EVER pitched 400 innings in a season? It can't even be done nowadays.

 

35 starts times 9 innings is only 315 innings.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, because we all know that Hendry and the Cubs always make the right decisions. :headshake Lets see...

 

1.)  Hendry gave Maddux a ridiculous contract.  If he pitches 400+ innings this season, he will earn $9 million to put up #5 pitcher numbers next season.

 

2.)  Hendry PAID to get rid of Sosa.

 

3.)  Hendry traded one of the Flubs best relievers (Farnsworth) for minor league scrubs.  Keep in mind that one of the minor leaguers (Novoa) just blew a game for them.

 

4.)  Hendry failed to sign a closer meaning he let the team go into the season with LaChoke Hawkins in the role again after he failed miserably for them last season.

 

5.)  Hendry re-signed Todd Hollandsworth and Jose Macias, two of Busty Baker's favorites.  Because of his Busty's veteran fetish, he starts a career bench outfielder in Hollandsworth over a young player with a ton of power and a lot of upside in Jason Dubois.  Busty also loves to use Macias, who is horrible mind you, as his first pinch hitter off the bench when Dubois and Ben Grieve are available.  Hendry should have known better than to sign these two scrubs, knowing full well that Busty would give them a tot of playing time.

 

6.)  Hendry enters the season with many injury-prone players -- Nomar, Kerry Wood, Joe Borowski, Chad Fox, Scott Williamson.  The injuries aren't his fault but it's just asking for trouble.

 

1) Agree that it was a bad contract, but you do know what you are going to get out of him. Also consider who the agent is - Boras essentially guaranteed Maggs, whose career could very well be over, $75 mill. Maggs could not have an entire at-bat the entire season right now, and he would make $75 mill, due to him being out with a hernia injury.

 

Having Maddux is not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination though.

 

2) Sosa was a cancer in the clubhouse and was well overdue to be shipped out. And he was going to get practically nothing for him, especially considering he is off the roids, was coming off one of the worst years of his recent career, and was going to make $17 mill. The fact that he got Hairston and decent prospects for him is fairly solid in itself.

 

3) It was not like they were giving up a god among gods. Farnsworth put up a 4.72 ERA, a 1.50 WHIP, and allowed a .260 BAA last year. He is not as good as you are making him out to be.

 

4) There were not a ton of closers available. Going into this year, 3 teams had newly acquired closers - San Francisco, Detroit, and Atlanta. That being said, he could have addressed it better. Trading for Urbina or Dotel were and quite frankly still are possible, but that is all up to Hendry to do. They must feel pretty strongly that LaTroy can pull a Joe Nathan and go from headcase choker to stud, but I don't buy it. They could definately use a closer to move LaTroy back to setup, but it remains to be seen if they will do that.

 

5) Are you questioning him for listening to what his manager feels is best for the team? Because if you are, you must also question like every move the White Sox made. Pods was brought in because of Oz, Goochi was brought in because of Oz, Lee was dealt because of Oz, AJP was brought in because of Oz, Duque was brought in because of Oz.

 

6) When healthy, Nomar Garciaparra is one of the best SS's in the game. You can't question the Cubs for having him, especially considering what they gave up to get him...I believe Alex Gonzalez and Justin Jones, IIRC. Wood has proven in the past that he can be a very, very good pitcher, and they gave him that contract after his 2003 season, when he was outstanding. As of right now, he is hurt, and I figure it needs some surgery to fix it. It is a questionable move right now, but if he ever listened to Steve Stone and fixed his mechanics so they are not as bad, he could be a very solid pitcher. Borowski was perfectly healthy going into this season, but is rehabbing now from I believe a broken forearm that occurred during ST after being hit in the arm with a linedrive. There's absolutely nothing you can do about something like that. He also brought Williamson and Fox in for relatively cheap, and when they are healthy, they are nasty as hell. You can't criticize him for making low-risk, high-reward signings, else you are going to have to criticize every GM in the majors.

 

And finally, not resigning Clement to a 3-year, $2(1/4/7...can't remember which it is) mill deal after having seen what has happened to Wood(thank you for making that point for me, I had not thought of that), and having seen what he did in the second half last year makes it even easier to see why Hendry and the Cubs would not resign him. I was personally very relieved to have seen that the Sox had underbid the Sawks.