Fast forward to the deadline...

[Cerbaho-WG]

I've said for a while that the current outfield situation is going to to lead to Anderson being dealt, and I stand by that. Of course, I'd love to just flip Rowand off for Wagner, but Anderson's upside is so much higher than Rowand's.

 

On the idea of getting Wagner, I'd love it, and you're getting arguably the most dominant reliever in all of baseball when healthy. He's only 33 and can still hit triple digits, and is limiting batters to an under .200 clip. If, in July, we need Wagner, go get him.

[southsider2k5]

I know its only been a little over a month but I'm near certain that Brian Anderson could have put up Dye's numbers at this point, and played a better RF then what Dye has done thus far. Dye has to improve or he will be sitting watching Anderson play next year. I wouldnt make that trade either, first round draft choices just can't be moved for a 3 month rental...

 

The key is, what if that 3 month rental could be the final piece to a World Series team? That's what makes it difficult to judge. Yeah, on paper it is a horrible trade. BUT, does the value of the trade look different if it is Wagner+World Series Appearnece for Diaz, Baj, and Anderson? How about White Sox World Champions, does that make it worth it? Most people are just looking at the values on paper, for you I say, put the stat sheet and Baseball America down, and think outside the box when evaluating something like this. A deal like this has to be thought about much more like the Lee-Pods/Vizcaino deal.

[Balta1701]

The key is, what if that 3 month rental could be the final piece to a World Series team?  That's what makes it difficult to judge.  Yeah, on paper it is a horrible trade.  BUT, does the value of the trade look different if it is Wagner+World Series Appearnece for Diaz, Baj, and Anderson?  How about White Sox World Champions, does that make it worth it?  Most people are just looking at the values on paper, for you I say, put the stat sheet and Baseball America down, and think outside the box when evaluating something like this.  A deal like this has to be thought about much more like the Lee-Pods/Vizcaino deal.

 

On the other hand...there is just as much risk in making the 3-month-rental WS attempt as there is in holding onto the prospects. Say the Sox reach the end of the season, and then 1 or 2 key guys hit a slump, as happened to the Braves last year. Say the Sox get swept out of the 1st round. Then we've mortgaged another solid portion of our future in exchange for another missed opportunity.

 

A guy like Anderson has the chance to give us 3 or 4 real good shots at advancing even further than this season's team can, and for less money while he's young. Moving from Dye to Anderson cuts another $4 million off the Payroll, and KW has done a marvelous job of moving around payroll when he is given it.

[RockRaines]

I've said for a while that the current outfield situation is going to to lead to Anderson being dealt, and I stand by that. Of course, I'd love to just flip Rowand off for Wagner, but Anderson's upside is so much higher than Rowand's.

 

On the idea of getting Wagner, I'd love it, and you're getting arguably the most dominant reliever in all of baseball when healthy. He's only 33 and can still hit triple digits, and is limiting batters to an under .200 clip. If, in July, we need Wagner, go get him.

f*** that, deal Dye, I would rather have anderson up right now than see jermaine pop out up at bat with men on base. Not to mention the fact that he was supposed to be a defensive upgrade, how many errors does he have already? Wagner is injury prone and dealing someone just to make a move doesnt make sense. We have the best bullpen in baseball right now, why mess with it.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I'd deal any prospect not named Anderson or McCarthy....

Anyone else can be dealt..

[RockRaines]

Who's to say that Anderson isn't better than Dye next year?

 

No way I make that trade, it's a gross overpayment.

who's to say that Anderson isnt better than Dye THIS year. Dye is finished, his decline has become more and more evident. Im sick of people saying that he is under pressure to perform with his new team, hmmmm seems to be killing gooch, spod, hermy, viz, AJ, Duque.

[RockRaines]

I'd deal any prospect not named Anderson or McCarthy....

Anyone else can be dealt..

I disagree,Gio, Liotta, Sweeney, Fields, are also untouchable in my book.

[southsider2k5]

On the other hand...there is just as much risk in making the 3-month-rental WS attempt as there is in holding onto the prospects.  Say the Sox reach the end of the season, and then 1 or 2 key guys hit a slump, as happened to the Braves last year.  Say the Sox get swept out of the 1st round.  Then we've mortgaged another solid portion of our future in exchange for another missed opportunity.

 

A guy like Anderson has the chance to give us 3 or 4 real good shots at advancing even further than this season's team can, and for less money while he's young.  Moving from Dye to Anderson cuts another $4 million off the Payroll, and KW has done a marvelous job of moving around payroll when he is given it.

 

And there is nothing to say that the Sox pen doesn't implode in the first round of the playoffs because they don't have a "real" closer backing them up either. Wagner is an elite closer, make no mistake about it. Marte has floundered in the role historically, Hermanson has been a closer for two months of his career, and Shingo seems to have lost whatever magic he had last year. The scenario of the pen imploding in the playoffs if pretty easy to imagine. Then where would we be? We'd have Brian Anderson, but conceivably have missed a chance at moving on to the World Series for the first time in 46 years, because we wanted to make sure we had a prospect who should be able to take over an OF position in 2006 if needed.

 

This arguement goes both ways, and I just wanted to point out the other side of the coin.

[Balta1701]

Not to mention the fact that he was supposed to be a defensive upgrade, how many errors does he have already? 

This is the thing that's been pissing me off the most about Dye. He had an error yesterday. He had a big error against the Twins that helped cost Buehrle the game. He dropped that fly ball in Oakland.

 

At some point, Anderson does become a better option.

[RockRaines]

This is the thing that's been pissing me off the most about Dye.  He had an error yesterday.  He had a big error against the Twins that helped cost Buehrle the game.  He dropped that fly ball in Oakland.

 

At some point, Anderson does become a better option.

The only problem is that at this point, you cant really take him out of the lineup and he has no trade value. Im just waiting for his freak injury to happen so we can explore whether or not Anderson has what it takes in the bigs.

[sox-r-us]

I am amazed no one has mentioned this yet, but we do not need to add anything to the bullpen because we will have Count going to the BP once the playoffs start folks. Count can be unhittable for an inning or two in the playoffs. Heck he could close too if required.

 

Not to mention we could BMac to the roster in the Bull pen too.

 

Our bull pen could be as follows come playoff time:

 

Shingo (only for RH hitters)

Hermanson

Count

Marte

Politte (for RH hitters mainly)

Vizcaino

Cotts (only for one or two outs and only for LH hitters)

Bmac (if you send another hitter down)

 

Send Walker down.

[Balta1701]

Not to mention we could BMac to the roster in the Bull pen too.

 

I'm sorry, but taking a guy who literally looks to be the future of our starting rotation and screwing around by tossing him into the bullpen in a playoff atmosphere when he's barely faced any big-league hitters in the regular season and he's been a starter all year in the minors just doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

B-Mac is my backup starter if someone gets hurt. No way he belongs in the bullpen.

[beck72]

I am amazed no one has mentioned this yet, but we do not need to add anything to the bullpen because we will have Count going to the BP once the playoffs start folks. Count can be unhittable for an inning or two in the playoffs. Heck he could close too if required.

 

 

 

I did think about the fact that one of the SP's [el duque, Jose or Jon--all RHP's] would be in the pen. That's why a LH closer like Wagner would be a good fit with the abundance of RH pitchers now in the pen, and only Marte and Cotts from the left side

[ISF]

This is insane. We are 24-8, our pitching has been the best in the AL, we have 3 or 4 guys that can close a game, and we're talking about possible deadline deals for a closer?

 

What in the hell do we need a closer for? Is there someone out there with a better ERA than 0.00?

 

Hermanson was a bargain, and Takatsu is still doing ok. Marte and Politte both look very good. Spending 9 mil on a bullpen guy would be utter foolishness.

[beck72]

For the first time in a long time, when KW put this team together in the offseason, I was feeling like he really was not only assembling a team for this year, but he was assembling a full plan for the next few years.

 

He put Dye in RF on a very short and fairly cheap contract until Anderson was ready, and he put Podsednik in LF as a trial to see how he could do for little money and to hold the place until Sweeney was ready.  In 2 years, our outfield was set up to look like Sweeney, Rowand, Anderson (I don't know the order), and that's a pretty good setup.

 

 

Right now the OF looks like Pods, Rowand and Dye for the next two, maybe more yrs. Esp Pods, as he's the leadoff hitter/ catalyst. Pods stays near his numbers now and the Sox will probably sign him to a 2, 3 yr deal. That leaves out a guy like Anderson, with his RH bat. Sweeney is more likely to stick around for RF, after 2006 when Dye's contract is up.

[sox-r-us]

This is insane. We are 24-8, our pitching has been the best in the AL, we have 3 or 4 guys that can close a game, and we're talking about possible deadline deals for a closer?

 

What in the hell do we need a closer for? Is there someone out there with a better ERA than 0.00?

 

Hermanson was a bargain, and Takatsu is still doing ok. Marte and Politte both look very good. Spending 9 mil on a bullpen guy would be utter foolishness.

 

Agreed 100%. Get a big bat somewhere....most likely at RF (trade Dye in the deal) or CF (bench Rowand as a late inning replacement/pinch hitter....too inconsistent)

[beck72]

who's to say that Anderson isnt better than Dye THIS year.  Dye is finished, his decline has become more and more evident.  Im sick of people saying that he is under pressure to perform with his new team, hmmmm seems to be killing gooch, spod, hermy, viz, AJ, Duque.

 

Dye will be fine. Unless an OFer goes down to injury, anderson won't come near Chi. this year.

[beck72]

This is insane. We are 24-8, our pitching has been the best in the AL, we have 3 or 4 guys that can close a game, and we're talking about possible deadline deals for a closer?

 

What in the hell do we need a closer for? Is there someone out there with a better ERA than 0.00?

 

Hermanson was a bargain, and Takatsu is still doing ok. Marte and Politte both look very good. Spending 9 mil on a bullpen guy would be utter foolishness.

 

It's about looking toward a playoff appearance, and getting the bullpen in the best possible shape to beat any team in a short series. The fact that the Sox have a versatile bullpen bodes well for the rest of the season. But, if the Sox had a chance to get an impact player, that would add to the team and the bullpen without disrupting the work these guys have done, a closer like Wagner could be a good fit. Few moves could be made that wouldn't disrupt team chemistry. This, IMO could be one of the few.

[beck72]

Agreed 100%. Get a big bat somewhere....most likely at RF (trade Dye in the deal) or CF (bench Rowand as a late inning replacement/pinch hitter....too inconsistent)

 

Frank Thomas. Rowand will come around, as will Dye.

[RockRaines]

Dye will be fine. Unless an OFer goes down to injury, anderson won't come near Chi. this year.

I dont understand where you can come up with Dye will be fine. He hasnt been producing the last few years, and is showing the signs of a serious decline. While we have a few players on our bench, and a SERIOUS propspect who is hitting over 300 with several hr's in AAA.

[beck72]

Yeah I'd do it.

 

We would get two compensation picks for Wagner leaving us at the end of the season too.

 

Wouldn't the sox only get picks if they offered him arbitration? With his $9 mill contract, the sox wouldn't offer him arb.

[southsider2k5]

Wouldn't the sox only get picks if they offered him arbitration? With his $9 mill contract, the sox wouldn't offer him arb.

 

The thing is, if the Sox win the World Series, or even make it there. I would be willing to bet that their payroll would jump to at least $90 million, if not $100 million, based on a huge attendance jump, and season ticket jump. And with the lack of guys that we need to resign, the money might be there to do it. We are talking $15-25 million extra to sign basically Garland, Thomas and/or Konerko over and above the about $20 million they are making now. All of the rest of the pieces of the puzzle are pretty much signed already.

[beck72]

I dont understand where you can come up with Dye will be fine.  He hasnt been producing the last few years, and is showing the signs of a serious decline.  While we have a few players on our bench, and a SERIOUS propspect who is hitting over 300 with several hr's in AAA.

 

Because Dye has performed well over the years, esp when healthy. By all accounts, he's healthy now. With the weather warming up, Dye's numbers will as well. Rowand, another CA guy like Dye, also has started slow in April and May. Playing in Chicago/ midwest in the spring may take getting used to.

[qwerty]

Wouldn't the sox only get picks if they offered him arbitration? With his $9 mill contract, the sox wouldn't offer him arb.

 

What are the chances he would accept considering most likely his last big pay day will be after this year?

Edited May 10, 2005 by qwerty

[qwerty]

Because Dye has performed well over the years, esp when healthy. By all accounts, he's healthy now. With the weather warming up, Dye's numbers will as well. Rowand, another CA guy like Dye, also has started slow in April and May. Playing in Chicago/ midwest in the spring may take getting used to.

 

.240 last three years against righties says it all to me.