What to do with Shingo

[southsideirish71]

Last year we had the three headed monster of Cotts-Thriller-Koch.

 

Cotts would walk a few guys and hand it over to Thriller who would give up the big hit losing the inheritted runners. Koch was the one giving up the big hits and the big blown saves. He would never get out of a game 1-2-3.

 

 

This year. Cotts walks a few and hands it over to Viz. Who gives up hits and inheritted runners score. And now we have Shingo to give up the big home run and he doesnt go 1-2-3 anymore.

 

 

Our big issue last year was our bullpen walking guys and then someone giving up the big hit.

 

I see similiar issues this year. Wagner would definately help out. Cotts needs to learn how to consistantly learn how to throw strikes. Vis needs to learn how to throw strikes with his fastball and then use his slider to get somone out. Dingo needs to learn how to throw strike one.

[Soxbadger]

SSI,

 

What were Shingo's splits last year compared to Hermanson's?

 

Hermanson has been lights out so far this season, but that does not mean that he will not return back to earth. Shingo on the other hand has been up and down, but the majority of the time has gotten the job done.

 

It has been less than 2 months, it is far to early to be saying that Shingo is done.

 

SB

[Jabroni]

SSI,

 

What were Shingo's splits last year compared to Hermanson's?

 

Hermanson has been lights out so far this season, but that does not mean that he will not return back to earth. Shingo on the other hand has been up and down, but the majority of the time has gotten the job done.

 

It has been less than 2 months, it is far to early to be saying that Shingo is done.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shingo has given up 5 HR's in 9 IP. I know 3 of them came in one game but that's pretty bad. He only gave up 6 HR's last season in 62.1 IP. Methinks the scouting report is out on Shingo.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni

[Punch and Judy Garland]

What has happened to Shngo is reminiscent of Hasegawa last year where command just went away.

[rangercal]

Shingo has given up 5 HR's in 9 IP.  I know 3 of them came in one game but that's pretty bad.  He only gave up 6 HR's last season in 62.1 IP.  Methinks the scouting report is out on Shingo.

shingo has proven to re-adjust his game when players figured him out back in Japan. I think he can do it but, it will take a while. I will definately miss the gong show. He just doesn't have it.

[Jabroni]

shingo has proven to re-adjust his game when players figured him out back in Japan. I think he can do it but, it will take a while.  I will definately miss the gong show. He just doesn't have it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Throwing first, second, and sometimes even third pitch balls doesn't help either. He's "showing the batter his whole arsenal before trying to get him out," as Hawk would say.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni

[rangercal]

Throwing first, second, and sometimes even third pitch balls doesn't help either.  He's "showing the batter his whole arsenal before trying to get him out," as Hawk would say.

I would not mind throwing shingo in certain situations. just not save situations, or game on the line situations. How many games do we have to lose to show ozzie not to use him late? 3,4, 5 Games? That will hurt ,especially since I think the division will be decided by 5 games or less.

[Jabroni]

I would not mind throwing shingo in certain situations.  just not save situations, or game on the line situations. How many games do we have to lose to show ozzie not to use him late? 3,4, 5 Games? That will hurt ,especially since I think the division will be decided by 5 games or less.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Shingo should be facing 1 or 2 right-handed batters in non-critical situations from now on. Vizcaino should be doing the same versus lefty batters. And Hermanson should be closing with Politte and Marte setting up for him.

 

And whomever was telling me two nights ago that Marte has been great this season needs to eat some crow. The guy is always shaky and pitching in trouble like I said. He just happens to get out of it everytime.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni

[rangercal]

Agreed.  Shingo should be facing 1 or 2 right-handed batters in non-critical situations from now on.  Vizcaino should be doing the same versus lefty batters.  And Hermanson should be closing with Politte and Marte setting up for him.

I think Viz scares me more than shingo

 

I see kenny pulling a deal off ( everyone knows he will)

 

I like hermanson as closer. But with someone like wagner our bullpen would be very deep. Hermanson would not be limited to closing (because we may need him for spot starts down the road)

[Jabroni]

I think Viz scares me more than shingo 

 

I see kenny pulling a deal off  ( everyone knows he will)

 

I like hermanson as closer.  But with someone like wagner our bullpen would be very deep. Hermanson would not be limited to closing (because we may need him for spot starts down the road)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love the idea of trading for Wagner if we need him by the deadline. He would bump the rest of our relievers into a less stressful role. I don't think I could stomach it if we have to give up B-Mac or Brian Anderson though. I'd be fine giving up Sweeney and other prospects though.

[rangercal]

I love the idea of trading for Wagner if we need him by the deadline.  He would bump the rest of our relievers into a less stressful role.  I don't think I could stomach it if we have to give up B-Mac or Brian Anderson though.  I'd be fine giving up Sweeney and other prospects though.

Hopefully, not too many teams will be bidding for wagner. The cubs may try to get him if they're not 15 games back by July . Another closer who may be available would be Jose Mesa . I think he would f*** up all our team chemistry.

 

 

But...... Since Vizquel did f*** us over , and Mesa wants to kill him, maybe we should get Mesa .

[DBAHO]

I love the idea of trading for Wagner if we need him by the deadline.  He would bump the rest of our relievers into a less stressful role.  I don't think I could stomach it if we have to give up B-Mac or Brian Anderson though.  I'd be fine giving up Sweeney and other prospects though.

No on Sweeney. He's been injured for the 1st month and is just starting now in B-Ham, hitting bout .289. Long - term he's got more potential than Anderson. I'd like to think we'll need both in the future, one in the DH spot possibly and one as an outfielder.

 

Everyone loves Wagner because he'll be dominant, but he's also injury prone. If you get a guy like Jose Mesa instead for cheaper, (and give up a guy like Joe Borchard instead), KW should look into that.

[Jabroni]

No on Sweeney. He's been injured for the 1st month and is just starting now in B-Ham, hitting bout .289. Long - term he's got more potential than Anderson. I'd like to think we'll need both in the future, one in the DH spot possibly and one as an outfielder.

 

Everyone loves Wagner because he'll be dominant, but he's also injury prone. If you get a guy like Jose Mesa instead for cheaper, (and give up a guy like Joe Borchard instead), KW should look into that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jose Mesa? Wow, do you really want another choke artist that badly? You have to give up talent to get talent and Billy Wagner makes Jose Mesa look like LaTroy Hawkins when it comes down to it. I wouldn't trust Jose Mesa as far as I could throw him, regardless of his stats so far this season.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni

[DBAHO]

Jose Mesa?  Wow, do you really want another choke artist that badly?  You have to give up talent to get talent and Billy Wagner makes Jose Mesa look like LaTroy Hawkins when it comes down to it.  I wouldn't trust Jose Mesa as far as I could throw him, regardless of his stats so far this season.

That's just your point of view on him. People are always going to be wary because of what's happened before his stint in Pittsburgh. But a guy who has an ERA 2.45 with 11 out of 11 save chances, who could be available cheaply, should be looked at.

 

Who even says Wagner is going to be available anyway? Philly can turn it around with the players they've got. Also Wagner is a FA after this season, if we give up some uber prospects for him, and he doesn't resign, it's the Freddy Garcia trade gone bad.

[rangercal]

That's just your point of view on him. People are always going to be wary because of what's happened before his stint in Pittsburgh. But a guy who has an ERA 2.45 with 11 out of 11 save chances, who could be available cheaply, should be looked at.

 

Who even says Wagner is going to be available anyway? Philly can turn it around with the players they've got. Also Wagner is a FA after this season, if we give up some uber prospects for him, and he doesn't resign, it's the Freddy Garcia trade gone bad.

Since we didn't get Vizquel, It only makes sense to get Mesa.

Seriously though,

2005 World Series Champion Chicago White Sox > Brian Anderson

Edited May 11, 2005 by rangercal

[YASNY]

That's just your point of view on him. People are always going to be wary because of what's happened before his stint in Pittsburgh. But a guy who has an ERA 2.45 with 11 out of 11 save chances, who could be available cheaply, should be looked at.

 

Who even says Wagner is going to be available anyway? Philly can turn it around with the players they've got. Also Wagner is a FA after this season, if we give up some uber prospects for him, and he doesn't resign, it's the Freddy Garcia trade gone bad.

 

What happened before Pittsburg was the "deer in the headlights" look he had in Game 7 of the '97 World Series. He cost Cleveland that Series. No thanks. I'd rather have a guy that wants the ball in that situation, not someone who'll choke.

[DBAHO]

Since we didn't get Vizquel, It only makes sense to get Mesa.

Seriously though,       

2005 World Series  Champion Chicago White Sox > Brian Anderson

I love this mentality of acquire Billy Wagner and we win the World Series. That's not going to happen.

 

Mesa may not be the guy to go after, but I don't want to give up a king's ransom for Wagner, when it could be likely Shingo could turn it around, or Marte or Hermanson could fill in and do the job.

[Jabroni]

What happened before Pittsburg was the "deer in the headlights" look he had in Game 7 of the '97 World Series.  He cost Cleveland that Series.  No thanks.  I'd rather have a guy that wants the ball in that situation, not someone who'll choke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. It's not hard to close out games for the Pittsburgh Pirates when the team is expected to lose 80 to 90 games. There's no pressure whatsoever.

[Jabroni]

I love this mentality of acquire Billy Wagner and we win the World Series. That's not going to happen.

 

Mesa may not be the guy to go after, but I don't want to give up a king's ransom for Wagner, when it could be likely Shingo could turn it around, or Marte or Hermanson could fill in and do the job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Better than acquiring Jose Mesa and choking in Game 7.

[DBAHO]

Better than acquiring Jose Mesa and choking in Game 7.

And that's a definite 100% chance of occuring. Maybe some other team acquires Mesa for the stretch run, and we see him choke again, or maybe we don't.

 

We acquire Wagner, give up one of Anderson, Sweeney or B-Mac, we miss the playoffs, and Wagner leaves as a FA after the season. That's a big, big loss.

[rangercal]

I love this mentality of acquire Billy Wagner and we win the World Series. That's not going to happen.

 

Mesa may not be the guy to go after, but I don't want to give up a king's ransom for Wagner, when it could be likely Shingo could turn it around, or Marte or Hermanson could fill in and do the job.

we have a better shot with wagner rather than mesa. If this team turns out to be special why would we not to do all we can to put us over the top?

[YASNY]

And that's a definite 100% chance of occuring.    Maybe some other team acquires Mesa for the stretch run, and we see him choke again, or maybe we don't.

 

We acquire Wagner, give up one of Anderson, Sweeney or B-Mac, we miss the playoffs, and Wagner leaves as a FA after the season. That's a big, big loss.

 

Whether it's 100% chance of happening or not, I don't want to take the chance on someone who has already choked in that situation. If we get to a game 7, with the lead, we better win the damn thing!

Edited May 11, 2005 by YASNY

[Jabroni]

And that's a definite 100% chance of occuring.    Maybe some other team acquires Mesa for the stretch run, and we see him choke again, or maybe we don't.

 

We acquire Wagner, give up one of Anderson, Sweeney or B-Mac, we miss the playoffs, and Wagner leaves as a FA after the season. That's a big, big loss.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Jose Mesa was such a good closer and could be trusted in critical situations, why hasn't any team traded for him in the past couple years at the deadline? Do you really think the Pirates need to keep Mesa? They never come close to winning the division so why do they need a good closer?

 

Because no team wants his choking ass, that's why.

[rangercal]

We acquire Wagner, give up one of Anderson, Sweeney or B-Mac, we miss the playoffs, and Wagner leaves as a FA after the season. That's a big, big loss.

and thats a 100 % definate chance of happening?

 

 

 

 

 

You are looking at the absolute worst scenerio if we got wagner.

Edited May 11, 2005 by rangercal

[DBAHO]

we have a better shot with wagner  rather than mesa.  If this team turns out to be special why would we not to do all we can to put us over the top?

But here's what the Sox have to determine. Is it worth trading for Wagner who would save you an extra couple of games late in the season, for an outfielder or pitcher that would produce very well at a cost of $300,000?

 

Anyway it's still way too early to determine whether or not Wagner will put us over the top, when we may not even be in that position late in the season. And KW and Ozzie said in 2 articles yesterday they won't be making a BIG move at the deadline.