rangercal Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Let me note. I am willing to risk that scenerio for a chance to win a ws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:47 PM) and thats a 100 % definate chance of happening? You are looking at the absolute worst scenerio if we got wagner. Well it's not worth trading for him if we can't resign him to a long - term deal in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:47 PM) If Jose Mesa was such a good closer and could be trusted in critical situations, why hasn't any team traded for him in the past couple years at the deadline? Do you really think the Pirates need to keep Mesa? They never come close to winning the division so why do they need a good closer? Because no team wants his choking ass, that's why. 2 years ago that wasn't the case. He was lucky to wind up with a job with the Pirates, and look what he's done since then. There are so many teams desperate for closers (more than us) and since Mesa can be had for less than other big names (and is cheaper), some team will probably trade for him. Pittsburgh don't need him now, he's a luxury, but it's not as if he's too expensive for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Well it's not worth trading for him if we can't resign him to a long - term deal in my opinion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Even if he helped us get to the playoffs, the WS, or possibly even win the WS? Ridiculous. You value prospects over a WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:49 AM) But here's what the Sox have to determine. Is it worth trading for Wagner who would save you an extra couple of games late in the season, for an outfielder or pitcher that would produce very well at a cost of $300,000? Couple of games? If we made the wagner trade it is because KW would think we were going deep in the playoffs and possibly go for the whole thing. Who would you rather have in the playoffs? QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:49 AM) Anyway it's still way too early to determine whether or not Wagner will put us over the top, when we may not even be in that position late in the season. And KW and Ozzie said in 2 articles yesterday they won't be making a BIG move at the deadline. Thats easy to say when you are 24-7. After tonight and after future bullpen meltdowns things will change fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:49 PM) Let me note. I am willing to risk that scenerio for a chance to win a ws. But is Wagner the main solution to our problems? Is the offense going to heat up enough in October to have enough chances to close? Are our starters good enough in a 5 game series? To me, KW is just going to acquire a good clubhouse guy right handed hitter which was stated by him and Ozzie in yesterday's Trib and Sun - Times IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) 2 years ago that wasn't the case. He was lucky to wind up with a job with the Pirates, and look what he's done since then. There are so many teams desperate for closers (more than us) and since Mesa can be had for less than other big names (and is cheaper), some team will probably trade for him. Pittsburgh don't need him now, he's a luxury, but it's not as if he's too expensive for them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once again, it's easy to close for perennial cellar-dwellars like the Pirates. There's no pressure. We saw what Mesa does in the most critical of situations -- he choked. There's a reason no team has traded for him the past two seasons. Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:53 PM) Even if he helped us get to the playoffs, the WS, or possibly even win the WS? Ridiculous. You value prospects over a WS. Not necessarily. It's an all or nothing approach here. Anderson or Sweeney could be starting for us next season if Dye continues to stink it up. B-Mac could very well be in our rotation if KW decides to make a move with one of our 5 starters. I want to win a World Series more than anything, but we have to get there first, and that may not even happen if or if we don't acquire Wagner. It's too early to predict. And there'll probably be other teams willing to give up real good prospects for Wagner as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) Not necessarily. It's an all or nothing approach here. Anderson or Sweeney could be starting for us next season if Dye continues to stink it up. B-Mac could very well be in our rotation if KW decides to make a move with one of our 5 starters. I want to win a World Series more than anything, but we have to get there first, and that may not even happen if or if we don't acquire Wagner. It's too early to predict. And there'll probably be other teams willing to give up real good prospects for Wagner as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What team knows that they are going to make the WS or even the playoffs at the trading deadline? It's a calculated risk. We traded for Freddy Garcia before the deadline and didn't make the playoffs. You can't use hindsight to say it was a stupid move. It's just a risk that a GM has to take to try to win it all. If you don't make it, oh well, at least you tried. That's one thing prospects are for. Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:57 AM) And there'll probably be other teams willing to give up real good prospects for Wagner as well. Not too many teams. Most contending teams are already contenders because they already have a closer like wagner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:59 AM) What team knows that they are going to make the WS or even the playoffs at the trading deadline? It's a calculated risk. We traded for Freddy Garcia before the deadline and didn't make the playoffs. You can't use hindsight to say it was a stupid move. We knew the chances of signing garcia were much greater than the chance of signing wagner ( 0 percent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:00 PM) We knew the chances of signing garcia were much greater than the chance of signing wagner ( 0 percent). Thank you for stating that. That trade would have been terrible if that didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 We knew the chances of signing garcia were much greater than the chance of signing wagner ( 0 percent). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Re-signing Wagner means little in the equation. They would be trading for Wagner to win it all THIS season, not next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) Thank you for stating that. That trade would have been terrible if that didn't happen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, just wow. See my post above. Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:59 PM) Not too many teams. Most contending teams are already contenders because they already have a closer like wagner. Ok let's see then. Atlanta could use Wagner. Florida could use Wagner. The Mets could use Wagner. San Francisco could pull a shocker and acquire Wagner if Benitez doesn't come back. If Isringhausen keeps getting injured, St. Louis could acquire Wagner. There'll be teams interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 03:01 AM) Re-signing Wagner means little in the equation. They would be trading for Wagner to win it all THIS season, not next season. I am thinking of 2005 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:01 PM) Re-signing Wagner means little in the equation. They would be trading for Wagner to win it all THIS season, not next season. And if that doesn't happen, what are you left with? Nothing. That's the risk KW has to decide whether or not to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:06 PM) I am thinking of 2005 as well. So am I but I want to be able to contend for multiple seasons as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 11, 2005 -> 03:05 AM) Ok let's see then. Atlanta could use Wagner. If they take wagner . we'll take kolb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) If they take wagner . we'll take kolb Now there's a possible scenario no-one's mentioned. Too bad he doesn't K batters enough though. And when does a pitcher who goes under Leo Mazzone's coaching get worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) And if that doesn't happen, what are you left with? Nothing. That's the risk KW has to decide whether or not to take. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, but at least you tried your best. Are the Astros morons for trading for Carlos Beltran last season and riding him all the way to the playoffs? Not in my book. It's better than sitting out and watching other teams compete in the playoffs. Are you just going to sit back, not make a move, and hope we can have another nice record like this with those untouchable prospects next season? You can't use hindsight on this one. If you fail to make the playoffs, at least you did your best to get there when you had your best chance. Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 I have come to this conclusion All Or nothing: Jabroni, RangerCal wants all, but wants future too: DBAHO Face it . We are all greedy bastards in our own way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 I have come to this conclusion All Or nothing: Jabroni, RangerCal wants all, but wants future too: DBAHO Face it . We are all greedy bastards in our own way <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, the moral of the story is in these three quotes... 1.) "You can't have your cake and eat it too." 2.) "You have to give up talent to get talent." 3.) "Jose Mesa is a choker." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 03:11 AM) Yep, but at least you tried your best. Are the Astros morons for trading for Carlos Beltran last season and riding him all the way to the playoffs? Not in my book. It's better than sitting out and watching other teams compete in the playoffs. Are you just going to sit back, not make a move, and hope we can have another nice record like this with those untouchable prospects next season? You can't use hindsight on this one. If you fail to make the playoffs, at least you did your best to get there when you had your best chance. Agreed with Beltran. Its just the chance some teams have to take to get to the ultimate goal. If we are gonna go swimming, we have to jump in with a splash (wagner) not dip our foot and back away cause it's too cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) My God, I just forced myself to watch Cantu's walkoff homer versus Shingo. It was a friggin' 81 MPH straight meatball right down the middle of the plate. Disgusting, Shingo, just disgusting. :puke Shingo knew it was a homer a second after he threw the pitch. Edited May 11, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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