Is Greg Walker the man for the job?

[Balta1701]

At the All-star break last year, I was calling Greg Walker one of the better (if not best) hitting coaches in the league. Last year, Juan Uribe came to the Sox, and his bat absolutely went wild the first half. On top of that, Paul Konerko managed to turn around his terrible 2003 season and was on fire in 2004. Thomas was hitting hard until he got hurt, and so was Ordonez, although I doubt Walker spent much time with them. Carlos Lee had a nearly 30 game hitting streak. Aaron Rowand suddenly found the bat everyone was saying he had. And even guys like Gload were hitting .300 off the bench.

 

Last year I was ready to bow down and worship the job Greg Walker was doing as White Sox hitting coach. When guys turn around their entire career with a new hitting coach, I felt that was saying something.

 

This year, my confidence in Walker is rapidly turning into concern, and I want to hear other opinions on it.

 

This year, we started very hot with some of our key bats. Crede was hitting over .300 for a while. Konerko was on Fire. Everett came back from a terrible 2004 and was driving in runs left and right. Podsednik was improving from his dismal .240 average last year.

 

But that only lasted a few weeks. Now what do we see? We see Jermaine Dye mired in a month and a half long slump that he can't seem to find his way out of, despite receiving help from Walker. We've seen the surge from Konerko completely disappear, and both his and Dye's averages have dropped below .200. We've seen Crede lose about 40 points from his batting average with a slump of his own. We've seen Aaron Rowand start off another season slowly, even though it seems he may be hitting his stride this week. We've seen Uribe have his own difficulties, and his average has dropped below .270. And Podsednik has been both up and down - his average was in the .250's a week ago.

 

Not to say there haven't been successes this year. Tadahito Iguchi is clearly one, although I doubt Walker has much input there given the language barrier.

 

My question then is this; how long does this go on before if nothing else, we start considering whether a new hitting coach might get through to these guys better? In 2003, we dumped our hitting coach after a few months of our hitters playing like they are now.

 

I had a lot of confidence in the job Greg Walker was doing after last year. But this year, I'm really starting to wonder. With guys like Dye and Konerko seemingly unable to pull themselves out of slumps, and quite a few comment-writers here saying they have seen decent flaws in their hitting technique, how long should we let this continue before we start wondering what Walker is doing?

[SoxAce]

I definitely know where your comming from on this but let me ask you something. How many games have we played so far? It's still early in the season. At least give it till the all-star break to see what's goin on with our players who are in the slumps now.

[trexer]

At the All-star break last year, I was calling Greg Walker one of the better (if not best) hitting coaches in the league.  Last year, Juan Uribe came to the Sox, and his bat absolutely went wild the first half.  On top of that, Paul Konerko managed to turn around his terrible 2003 season and was on fire in 2004.  Thomas was hitting hard until he got hurt, and so was Ordonez, although I doubt Walker spent much time with them.  Carlos Lee had a nearly 30 game hitting streak.  Aaron Rowand suddenly found the bat everyone was saying he had.  And even guys like Gload were hitting .300 off the bench.

 

Last year I was ready to bow down and worship the job Greg Walker was doing as White Sox hitting coach.  When guys turn around their entire career with a new hitting coach, I felt that was saying something.

 

This year, my confidence in Walker is rapidly turning into concern, and I want to hear other opinions on it.

 

This year, we started very hot with some of our key bats.  Crede was hitting over .300 for a while.  Konerko was on Fire.  Everett came back from a terrible 2004 and was driving in runs left and right.  Podsednik was improving from his dismal .240 average last year.

 

But that only lasted a few weeks.  Now what do we see?  We see Jermaine Dye mired in a month and a half long slump that he can't seem to find his way out of, despite receiving help from Walker.  We've seen the surge from Konerko completely disappear, and both his and Dye's averages have dropped below .200.  We've seen Crede lose about 40 points from his batting average with a slump of his own.  We've seen Aaron Rowand start off another season slowly, even though it seems he may be hitting his stride this week.  We've seen Uribe have his own difficulties, and his average has dropped below .270.  And Podsednik has been both up and down - his average was in the .250's a week ago.

 

Not to say there haven't been successes this year.  Tadahito Iguchi is clearly one, although I doubt Walker has much input there given the language barrier. 

 

My question then is this; how long does this go on before if nothing else, we start considering whether a new hitting coach might get through to these guys better?  In 2003, we dumped our hitting coach after a few months of our hitters playing like they are now.

 

I had a lot of confidence in the job Greg Walker was doing after last year. But this year, I'm really starting to wonder.  With guys like Dye and Konerko seemingly unable to pull themselves out of slumps, and quite a few comment-writers here saying they have seen decent flaws in their hitting technique, how long should we let this continue before we start wondering what Walker is doing?

 

 

Are you present when Walker is coaching or able to keep tabs on him? Do you know what he's trying to teach the players? If not, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Hitters will always be in slumps from time to time and as for Dye, he had a severe injury that either takes a long time to get over or perhaps limits what he can do for the rest of his career. None of this has anything to do with just who the hitting coach is.

 

Try to talk about just what you do know about instead of talking about stuff you are not in a position to make judgments of others.

[Y2HH]

I don't think it's all that early in the season anymore...it's almost June.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20, and I'd rather not look back in September after losing the division to the Twins by 1 game and saying damn...if we only the heart of the order had hit higher than .200 early on in the year...oh well, there is always next year.

 

-y2

 

I definitely know where your comming from on this but let me ask you something. How many games have we played so far? It's still early in the season. At least give it till the all-star break to see what's goin on with our players who are in the slumps now.

Edited May 17, 2005 by Y2HH

[marsh]

Are you present when Walker is coaching or able to keep tabs on him?  Do you know what he's trying to teach the players?  If not, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about.  Hitters will always be in slumps from time to time and as for Dye, he had a severe injury that either takes a long time to get over or perhaps limits what he can do for the rest of his career.  None of this has anything to do with just who the hitting coach is. 

 

Try to talk about just what you do know about instead of talking about stuff you are not in a position to make judgments of others.

 

Greg?

[southsideirish71]

At the All-star break last year, I was calling Greg Walker one of the better (if not best) hitting coaches in the league.  Last year, Juan Uribe came to the Sox, and his bat absolutely went wild the first half.  On top of that, Paul Konerko managed to turn around his terrible 2003 season and was on fire in 2004.  Thomas was hitting hard until he got hurt, and so was Ordonez, although I doubt Walker spent much time with them.  Carlos Lee had a nearly 30 game hitting streak.  Aaron Rowand suddenly found the bat everyone was saying he had.  And even guys like Gload were hitting .300 off the bench.

 

Last year I was ready to bow down and worship the job Greg Walker was doing as White Sox hitting coach.  When guys turn around their entire career with a new hitting coach, I felt that was saying something.

 

This year, my confidence in Walker is rapidly turning into concern, and I want to hear other opinions on it.

 

This year, we started very hot with some of our key bats.  Crede was hitting over .300 for a while.  Konerko was on Fire.  Everett came back from a terrible 2004 and was driving in runs left and right.  Podsednik was improving from his dismal .240 average last year.

 

But that only lasted a few weeks.  Now what do we see?  We see Jermaine Dye mired in a month and a half long slump that he can't seem to find his way out of, despite receiving help from Walker.  We've seen the surge from Konerko completely disappear, and both his and Dye's averages have dropped below .200.  We've seen Crede lose about 40 points from his batting average with a slump of his own.  We've seen Aaron Rowand start off another season slowly, even though it seems he may be hitting his stride this week.  We've seen Uribe have his own difficulties, and his average has dropped below .270.  And Podsednik has been both up and down - his average was in the .250's a week ago.

 

Not to say there haven't been successes this year.  Tadahito Iguchi is clearly one, although I doubt Walker has much input there given the language barrier. 

 

My question then is this; how long does this go on before if nothing else, we start considering whether a new hitting coach might get through to these guys better?  In 2003, we dumped our hitting coach after a few months of our hitters playing like they are now.

 

I had a lot of confidence in the job Greg Walker was doing after last year. But this year, I'm really starting to wonder.  With guys like Dye and Konerko seemingly unable to pull themselves out of slumps, and quite a few comment-writers here saying they have seen decent flaws in their hitting technique, how long should we let this continue before we start wondering what Walker is doing?

 

Walker is a complex subject. Everytime I have heard him talk he states on preaching his hitting to all fields. Yet I see nothing from this team over the years to back this up. Last year anyone and I mean anyone who was a soft tosser who could spot the fastball on the outside corner would shut this team down. Why is this. Well look at our players hitting stances and styles. Hands high up, standing away from the plate. If a pitch is inside they murder it foul. On the outside corner they still try to pull that slow pitch and either pop up or roll their wrists over for a weak ground out. Its hard to square up a ball when our hitters are putting hitches and archs in their swings. How many hitters over the last 3 years have had BA's that sit around the .200 level. I have never seen this on a major league team. Yes one player can slump, but groups of our hitters slump at the same time.

 

Konerko is completely lost now. The minute you start changing your stance every single time you go up to the plate you are going to K. He doesnt even have pitch selection right now to go with. This is a mirror of where Crede was last year. Always 0-2. Kong has been a good fastball hitter, however is getting beat this year on 89 mph fastballs down the middle. This is exactly what Crede did last year. Crede would come up with the big home run late in games last year because pitchers would get 0-2 on him and would throw a 12-6 pitch down and in. When you have a hitch in your swing a curve that plays into your upper cut swing is the best remedy. Now Kong is doing the bat resting on the shoulder routine. This is a Walker thing. He had Miggy doing it, Crede and now Kong. The hitting coach should be able to use video of good swings to help a hitter find his swing again. When our hitters get lost they are completely lost and for like 3 or more months at a time.

 

What Walker should be doing is to try and get Konerko's back elbow up a bit. This would stop the upper cut swing and allow him to square up a ball or to for a hit. Watch Arow, his back elbow is up again( which is not where he started the year off with). His hitting is more mechanical than others but very effective. He has great oppo power. Gooch has a goofy open stance, but watch his hands through the hitting zone. Its a line drive swing. This is what I would expect Walker to be teaching the guys. Line drive swings. Line drive swings are less likely to get into slumps. Yes they dont hit the monsterous moon shots, but the BA comes up and the homers will come. Our team has been remade into a smartball team. Its time for them to start to hit like that. Smallball teams dont have a group of hitters hitting below 200. Rob Deer, Jose Valentin teams are the ones with the 200 averages and the upper cut swings.

 

And before we state that Walker helped Carlos get into the 28 game hitting streak lets look to the tinkering he did to get him out of that approach. Walker helped Carlos Lee change his stance and extend his arms at the end of that hitting streak so he could hit for more power. Before Walkers tinkering Carlos had a very tight compact swing with opposite field power. After Walker helped him change his swing, a longer swing that allows Carlos to pull the ball. A month later we are all upset watching Carlos swing for the fences and trying to pull the outside pitch. This is cause an effect. Remember the press was hounding Carlos about the power numbers. Well guess what he changed his swing, told the press he would hit 30 and did. At the expense of situational hitting during a strech in August. Remember when Kenny made the comment about "If I ever see another guy swing for the fences when we need a basehit I will puke."

[DonkeyKongerko]

It's so easy to just blame the hitting coach. How many hitting coaches did we go through under Manuel? And how often did it a result in a noticeable improvement?

 

Jermaine Dye was a risk when we brought him on. His decline has been well documented over the past 3 years.

 

Konerko is a streaky hitter. How many good half seasons has he had in the past 3 years? It's a struggle with him for consistency.

 

Joe Crede's swing was a bit quicker coming into this season. Honestly I think he has already done more this year than any of us expected. I keep hearing references to people saying this would be "Crede's year" but I think for most of us, this was always just a pipe dream.

 

We've been lucky to have some pretty darn good hitters here with guys like Maggs, Frank, and Carlos around. Podsednik doesn't need to hit .270 to succeed, just look at his on-base percentage. Try to keep some of these things in mind before thinking that ANY hitting coach could raise a team's batting average by 30 points or anywhere close to that.

[marsh]

I don't know how much blame Walker should get when the team sucks or how much credit he should get when we hit everything, but I do know that when a team slumps for a extended period of time it's a lot easier to bring in a new hitting coach than new players.

[southsideirish71]

It's so easy to just blame the hitting coach.  How many hitting coaches did we go through under Manuel?  And how often did it a result in a noticeable improvement?

 

Jermaine Dye was a risk when we brought him on.  His decline has been well documented over the past 3 years.

 

Konerko is a streaky hitter.  How many good half seasons has he had in the past 3 years?  It's a struggle with him for consistency.

 

Joe Crede's swing was a bit quicker coming into this season.  Honestly I think he has already done more this year than any of us expected.  I keep hearing references to people saying this would be "Crede's year" but I think for most of us, this was always just a pipe dream.

 

We've been lucky to have some pretty darn good hitters here with guys like Maggs, Frank, and Carlos around.  Podsednik doesn't need to hit .270 to succeed, just look at his on-base percentage.  Try to keep some of these things in mind before thinking that ANY hitting coach could raise a team's batting average by 30 points or anywhere close to that.

 

 

What is the purpose of the hitting coach then besides to be a cheerleader. If its not that important and it really doesnt matter why not just eliminate it all together.

[UofIChiSox]

What is the purpose of the hitting coach then besides to be a cheerleader.  If its not that important and it really doesnt matter why not just eliminate it all together.

 

The hitting coach to me just studies every player's swing and gives suggestions. BUT, the bottom line is that it's still the players who have to go perform. A previous poster said that Manual had a lot of hitting coaches with little change, and I agree with that. It's a strange position, because I don't know if there is much of a difference from one hitting coach to another. Personally, I don't think there is, it's better to have one than not to, so there's no need to get rid of the position, but has anyone ever heard of a team winning because of their hitting coach? Who are some of the greatest historical hitting coaches?

 

I guess my point is, if we fired Walker and hired somebody else, I don't think that much would change.

[Chisoxfn]

Damn right he is. He's an exceptional hitting coach, regardless of the fact that the Sox have a few hitters struggling. I love Walker's approach and I think he did an oustanding job last year and he's slowly getting the Sox bats going again.

[ptatc]

Walker is a complex subject.  Everytime I have heard him talk he states on preaching his hitting to all fields.  Yet I see nothing from this team over the years to back this up.  Last year anyone and I mean anyone who was a soft tosser who could spot the fastball on the outside corner would shut this team down.  Why is this.  Well look at our players hitting stances and styles.  Hands high up, standing away from the plate.  If a pitch is inside they murder it foul.  On the outside corner they still try to pull that slow pitch and either pop up or roll their wrists over for a weak ground out.  Its hard to square up a ball when our hitters are putting hitches and archs in their swings.  How many hitters over the last 3 years have had BA's that sit around the .200 level.  I have never seen this on a major league team.  Yes one player can slump, but groups of our hitters slump at the same time. 

 

Konerko is completely lost now.  The minute you start changing your stance every single time  you go up to the plate you are going to K.  He doesnt even have pitch selection right now to go with.  This is a mirror of where Crede was last year.  Always 0-2.  Kong has been a good fastball hitter, however is getting beat this year on 89 mph fastballs down the middle.  This is exactly what Crede did last year.  Crede would come up with the big home run late in games last year because pitchers would get 0-2 on him and would throw a 12-6 pitch down and in.  When you have a hitch in your swing a curve that plays into your upper cut swing is the best remedy.  Now Kong is doing the bat resting on the shoulder routine.  This is a Walker thing.  He had Miggy doing it, Crede and now Kong.  The hitting coach should be able to use video of good swings to help a hitter find his swing again.  When our hitters get lost they are completely lost and for like 3 or more months at a time. 

 

What Walker should be doing is to try and get Konerko's back elbow up a bit.  This would stop the upper cut swing and allow him to square up a ball or to for a hit.  Watch Arow, his back elbow is up again( which is not where he started the year off with).  His hitting is more mechanical than others but very effective.  He has great oppo power.  Gooch has a goofy open stance, but watch his hands through the hitting zone.  Its a line drive swing.  This is what I would expect Walker to be teaching the guys.  Line drive swings.  Line drive swings are less likely to get into slumps.  Yes they dont hit the monsterous moon shots, but the BA comes up and the homers will come.  Our team has been remade into a smartball team.  Its time for them to start to hit like that.  Smallball teams dont have a group of hitters hitting below 200.  Rob Deer, Jose Valentin teams are the ones with the 200 averages and the upper cut swings.

 

And before we state that Walker helped Carlos get into the 28 game hitting streak lets look to the tinkering he did to get him out of that approach. Walker helped Carlos Lee change his stance and extend his arms at the end of that hitting streak so he could hit for more power.  Before Walkers tinkering Carlos had a very tight compact swing with opposite field power.  After Walker helped him change his swing, a longer swing that allows Carlos to pull the ball.  A month later we are all upset watching Carlos swing for the fences and trying to pull the outside pitch.  This is cause an effect.  Remember the press was hounding Carlos about the power numbers.  Well guess what he changed his swing, told the press he would hit 30 and did.  At the expense of situational hitting during a strech in August.  Remember when Kenny made the comment about "If I ever see another guy swing for the fences when we need a basehit I will puke."

 

This is an interesting take on the situation. While your points are valid, everytime you hear walker talks he discusses going the opposite way and up the middle is the most important part of hitting. This brings up a few possible scenarios. Either he isn't teaching what he discussing, the hitters aren't listening or the hitters are truly just stuck in a slump and are guessing at pitches. None of these possiblities show well on Walker.

 

One thing I have noticed is Walker keeps talking about his hitters did not walk enough last year and they worked on it in ST. I wonder if they are becoming too passive and wind up going after pitcher's pitches, which may explain the high rate of pop ups.

 

Let's hope the professional experienced hitters can turn it around.

[southsideirish71]

This is an interesting take on the situation. While your points are valid, everytime you hear walker talks he discusses going the opposite way and up the middle is the most important part of hitting. This brings up a few possible scenarios. Either he isn't teaching what he discussing, the hitters aren't listening or the hitters are truly just stuck in a slump and are guessing at pitches. None of these possiblities show well on Walker.

 

One thing I have noticed is Walker keeps talking about his hitters did not walk enough last year and they worked on it in ST. I wonder if they are becoming too passive and wind up going after pitcher's pitches, which may explain the high rate of pop ups.

 

Let's hope the professional experienced hitters can turn it around.

 

 

In the Month of May 2005 the bad news first

 

Our power guys

 

Joe Crede who everyone is claiming is a Walker success is batting .191, he has a .268 OBP

Kong is batting .149,

Everett is batting .233

Dye is batting .239

 

Our swing players

AJ is batting .243

Uribe is batting .245

 

Now for the good news

 

Our little guys

 

Arow is batting .340 with a .404 OBP

Gooch is batting .283 with a .345 OBP

Pods is .308 with a .429 OBP

 

And now for the news of hope

 

Our first three guys are doing their job, the rest of the guys needs to kick it in gear. If they hit at all this team will score some runs. Frank should be licking his chops looking at all the ducks that will be on the pond for him.

[ptatc]

In the Month of May 2005 the bad news first

 

Our power guys

 

Joe Crede who everyone is claiming is a Walker success is batting .191, he has a .268 OBP

Kong is batting .149,

Everett is batting .233

Dye is batting .239 

 

Our swing players

AJ is batting .243

Uribe is batting .245

 

Now for the good news

 

Our little guys

 

Arow is batting .340 with a .404 OBP

Gooch is batting .283 with a .345 OBP

Pods is .308 with a .429 OBP

 

And now for the news of hope

 

Our first three guys are doing their job, the rest of the guys needs to kick it in gear.  If they hit at all this team will score some runs.  Frank should be licking his chops looking at all the ducks that will be on the pond for him.

 

I agree the first three have been doing well. If we begin to get any production from the 3-4-5 we will be in business.

 

Back to the walker discussion. "I wonder if the little guys" are more capable of following the opposite field thoery than the others for whatever reason?

[southsideirish71]

I agree the first three have been doing well. If we begin to get any production from the 3-4-5 we will be in business.

 

Back to the walker discussion. "I wonder if the little guys" are more capable of following the opposite field thoery than the others for whatever reason?

 

 

Its not just about hitting the ball the other way. Its about not forcing the issue. This is what these guys have been doing so far. Arow started a few weeks ago with some power strokes to right. People were pitching him away and he started hitting the ball to right center with power. He has a great power stroke to center/right center. Gooch what else can you say, he pulls the ball when its thrown in, and he goes with the pitch and hits it to right. Nice line drive swings. I have been very impressed with him. The 2 hole on this team is a very difficult position. You have to take a ton of pitches to let Pods get a jump. You have to give yourself up at the expense of your BA. Pods has been doing everything. He has been walking, bunting, hitting the ball up the middle. Doing what he can to get on. If the big guys did some of these things we wouldnt be talking about a slump right now with the offense. But our big guys are pulling the ball too much and making themselves easy targets. If you make yourself into a one dimensional hitter major leaguers are good enough to pitch to that and get you out more and more.

[nitetrain8601]

Let's get this straight. Konerko has never been on fire this year.

[Balta1701]

Let's get this straight. Konerko has never been on fire this year.

 

When he got to 7 home runs after hitting 2 in a game at Comiskey, he was leading the league in that, hitting like .280, leading the team in RBI's. Right after that, his slump started.

[GoodAsGould]

To be fair, Konerko and Dye really do a lot on their own, Konerko has been changing his swing it seems like every other AB and thats mostly Konerko's doing not Walkers.

 

The guys i would assume Walker worked the most with are Podsenick(who is hitting the ball and taking walks) and Crede(who still isnt good, but better than last year)

[CanOfCorn]

To be fair, Konerko and Dye really do a lot on their own, Konerko has been changing his swing it seems like every other AB and thats mostly Konerko's doing not Walkers.

 

The guys i would assume Walker worked the most with are Podsenick(who is hitting the ball and taking walks) and Crede(who still isnt good, but better than last year)

 

When is .262 not good? It's ok, but considering he was below .240 last year, that's a marked improvement. If he can keep it at .265 the rest of the year, I would call it a success.

 

Walker can only get in their ears. He doesn't have the respect of a Charlie Lau, who was his hitting coach when he played. Charlie Lau wasn't about homers at all, he was about open stances, waiting on the back foot, and hitting line drives. And don't forget, nobody thinks this team has the big boppers like they had with Carlos, Maggs and Frank. So when Frank gets back, if he can hit like we all know he can, that will open up the lineup to some good ol' hitters pitches.

 

Don't give up on Walker yet.

[southsideirish71]

When is .262 not good?  It's ok, but considering he was below .240 last year, that's a marked improvement.  If he can keep it at .265 the rest of the year, I would call it a success.

 

Walker can only get in their ears.  He doesn't have the respect of a Charlie Lau, who was his hitting coach when he played.  Charlie Lau wasn't about homers at all, he was about open stances, waiting on the back foot, and hitting line drives.  And don't forget, nobody thinks this team has the big boppers like they had with Carlos, Maggs and Frank.  So when Frank gets back, if he can hit like we all know he can, that will open up the lineup to some good ol' hitters pitches. 

 

Don't give up on Walker yet.

 

Thomas will produce and that in itself will help. But its not like these guys have been aced time and time again. These guys are missing on fastballs down the middle of the plate. Your right, teams dont respect the power and they are going after Dye and Kong. Both of them as fastball hitters should be tearing it up. Thats the problem.

 

If Greg is preaching it and they arent listening. Then its time to bench players. and worry about their fragile egos another time. We are trying to win a divsion here.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I remember earlier this season catching a game against Cleveland on TV. Hawk was discussing what a badass hitting coach Eddie Murray is, calling him one of, if not the smartest hitter he's ever seen play. Hawk then told us about a conversation he had with Murray in '04 when Murray told Hawk that Indians hitters just weren't listening to him. Now Eddie Murray, as a hitter, was a whole lot better than Greg Walker. If Eddie Murray has a tough time getting through to young hitters (CLE is very young) then I can only imagine the difficulties Walk has getting through to some of our vets. I think Walk is the man for the job, just to hear him discuss his operation tells me that this guy has hit s*** together. Problem is that he can't make guys listen to him.

[GoodAsGould]

When is .262 not good?  It's ok, but considering he was below .240 last year, that's a marked improvement.  If he can keep it at .265 the rest of the year, I would call it a success.

 

Walker can only get in their ears.  He doesn't have the respect of a Charlie Lau, who was his hitting coach when he played.  Charlie Lau wasn't about homers at all, he was about open stances, waiting on the back foot, and hitting line drives.  And don't forget, nobody thinks this team has the big boppers like they had with Carlos, Maggs and Frank.  So when Frank gets back, if he can hit like we all know he can, that will open up the lineup to some good ol' hitters pitches. 

 

Don't give up on Walker yet.

 

 

Did you miss my point completely.... I said he is doing the job with the players he has been working with.... and .262 isnt good but like i said its an improvement for Crede.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Did you miss my point completely.... I said he is doing the job with the players he has been working with.... and .262 isnt good but like i said its an improvement for Crede.

 

 

Too bad credepopsup's average has dropped like a stone ever since that 2 week period of non-suckage ended for him.

 

Hes lost what, like 50 points off his average?

[BobDylan]

At the All-star break last year, I was calling Greg Walker one of the better (if not best) hitting coaches in the league.  Last year, Juan Uribe came to the Sox, and his bat absolutely went wild the first half.  On top of that, Paul Konerko managed to turn around his terrible 2003 season and was on fire in 2004.  Thomas was hitting hard until he got hurt, and so was Ordonez, although I doubt Walker spent much time with them.  Carlos Lee had a nearly 30 game hitting streak.  Aaron Rowand suddenly found the bat everyone was saying he had.  And even guys like Gload were hitting .300 off the bench.

 

Last year I was ready to bow down and worship the job Greg Walker was doing as White Sox hitting coach.  When guys turn around their entire career with a new hitting coach, I felt that was saying something.

 

This year, my confidence in Walker is rapidly turning into concern, and I want to hear other opinions on it.

 

This year, we started very hot with some of our key bats.  Crede was hitting over .300 for a while.  Konerko was on Fire.  Everett came back from a terrible 2004 and was driving in runs left and right.  Podsednik was improving from his dismal .240 average last year.

 

But that only lasted a few weeks.  Now what do we see?  We see Jermaine Dye mired in a month and a half long slump that he can't seem to find his way out of, despite receiving help from Walker.  We've seen the surge from Konerko completely disappear, and both his and Dye's averages have dropped below .200.  We've seen Crede lose about 40 points from his batting average with a slump of his own.  We've seen Aaron Rowand start off another season slowly, even though it seems he may be hitting his stride this week.  We've seen Uribe have his own difficulties, and his average has dropped below .270.  And Podsednik has been both up and down - his average was in the .250's a week ago.

 

Not to say there haven't been successes this year.  Tadahito Iguchi is clearly one, although I doubt Walker has much input there given the language barrier. 

 

My question then is this; how long does this go on before if nothing else, we start considering whether a new hitting coach might get through to these guys better?  In 2003, we dumped our hitting coach after a few months of our hitters playing like they are now.

 

I had a lot of confidence in the job Greg Walker was doing after last year. But this year, I'm really starting to wonder.  With guys like Dye and Konerko seemingly unable to pull themselves out of slumps, and quite a few comment-writers here saying they have seen decent flaws in their hitting technique, how long should we let this continue before we start wondering what Walker is doing?

 

 

Hitting coaches aren't the reason hitters hit or don't hit. It's the hiters that make it happen. Generally a hitting coach is just there. Players will come to him when they want to, or Greg will go to them only if something really needs to change. Walker will give hitters a plan at the plate and tell them about the pitcher, his tendency's, what he throws, etc. That's about it. Walker has little to do with Konerko and Dye hitting sub .200. That's on Konerko and Dye, given what they've previously done in their careers.

 

And regardless, 7 out of our 9 starters are where they likely will be all year and to see that we've won 28 ball games with a crappy Dye and Konerko says a lot about this team. Imagine if Konerko and Dye both hit their stride and we get Thomas back. I don't think anyone will be b****ing about a hitting coach then.

[BobDylan]

Walker is a complex subject.  Everytime I have heard him talk he states on preaching his hitting to all fields.  Yet I see nothing from this team over the years to back this up.  Last year anyone and I mean anyone who was a soft tosser who could spot the fastball on the outside corner would shut this team down.  Why is this.  Well look at our players hitting stances and styles.  Hands high up, standing away from the plate.  If a pitch is inside they murder it foul.  On the outside corner they still try to pull that slow pitch and either pop up or roll their wrists over for a weak ground out.  Its hard to square up a ball when our hitters are putting hitches and archs in their swings.  How many hitters over the last 3 years have had BA's that sit around the .200 level.  I have never seen this on a major league team.  Yes one player can slump, but groups of our hitters slump at the same time. 

 

Konerko is completely lost now.  The minute you start changing your stance every single time  you go up to the plate you are going to K.  He doesnt even have pitch selection right now to go with.  This is a mirror of where Crede was last year.  Always 0-2.  Kong has been a good fastball hitter, however is getting beat this year on 89 mph fastballs down the middle.  This is exactly what Crede did last year.  Crede would come up with the big home run late in games last year because pitchers would get 0-2 on him and would throw a 12-6 pitch down and in.  When you have a hitch in your swing a curve that plays into your upper cut swing is the best remedy.  Now Kong is doing the bat resting on the shoulder routine.  This is a Walker thing.  He had Miggy doing it, Crede and now Kong.  The hitting coach should be able to use video of good swings to help a hitter find his swing again.  When our hitters get lost they are completely lost and for like 3 or more months at a time. 

 

What Walker should be doing is to try and get Konerko's back elbow up a bit.  This would stop the upper cut swing and allow him to square up a ball or to for a hit.  Watch Arow, his back elbow is up again( which is not where he started the year off with).  His hitting is more mechanical than others but very effective.  He has great oppo power.  Gooch has a goofy open stance, but watch his hands through the hitting zone.  Its a line drive swing.  This is what I would expect Walker to be teaching the guys.  Line drive swings.  Line drive swings are less likely to get into slumps.  Yes they dont hit the monsterous moon shots, but the BA comes up and the homers will come.  Our team has been remade into a smartball team.  Its time for them to start to hit like that.  Smallball teams dont have a group of hitters hitting below 200.  Rob Deer, Jose Valentin teams are the ones with the 200 averages and the upper cut swings.

 

And before we state that Walker helped Carlos get into the 28 game hitting streak lets look to the tinkering he did to get him out of that approach. Walker helped Carlos Lee change his stance and extend his arms at the end of that hitting streak so he could hit for more power.  Before Walkers tinkering Carlos had a very tight compact swing with opposite field power.  After Walker helped him change his swing, a longer swing that allows Carlos to pull the ball.  A month later we are all upset watching Carlos swing for the fences and trying to pull the outside pitch.  This is cause an effect.  Remember the press was hounding Carlos about the power numbers.  Well guess what he changed his swing, told the press he would hit 30 and did.  At the expense of situational hitting during a strech in August.  Remember when Kenny made the comment about "If I ever see another guy swing for the fences when we need a basehit I will puke."

 

Yea, that Greg Walker knows nothing. Fire has ass on the spot. :headshake