WHIP

[LDF]

i was looking at the pitt pitching stat and i notice that fogg had a 1.16 with a 4.00 + era. kipper was 1.34 i think with a 3.50+ era.

 

 

doesn't the lower of the whip means that the pitcher is good or something. i am not too familar with this whip

[Heads22]

WHIP = Walks and Hits per Innings Pitched, so yeah, the lower the better.

[Chisoxfn]

Yep, lower the better. To me the more important stats is opponents batting avg. Of course WHIP also takes that into play, but if I'm going to get a pitcher I want to know they don't have a lot of baserunners and that people don't hit him good. Its usually a sign they have good stuff.

 

Of course ERA and Wins are very important too

[LDF]

Yep, lower the better.  To me the more important stats is opponents batting avg.  Of course WHIP also takes that into play, but if I'm going to get a pitcher I want to know they don't have a lot of baserunners and that people don't hit him good.  Its usually a sign they have good stuff.

 

Of course ERA and Wins are very important too 

but fogg has a 4.00+ era with a low whip. care to explain that?

[LDF]

oops i didn't mean to make it sound as a smart ass comment.

[Chisoxfn]

Don't worry LDF

 

Anyway this stat, well any stat isn't effective over such a small sample (In this gase 4 outings or so).

 

But the reason's Kips is so high is because of walks. I know he had a few games with like 6 walks or so in a game. That moves his base runners up quite a bit. Also, you don't know when the hits happen. Some guys may be prone to give up hits with 2 outs as they lose concentration while others may get hammered earlier and give up runs and then calm down.

 

Overall its a good stat, but if you followed soley that stat then Sirotka would of never had an ERA in the 3's. If I recall he always had a rather high whip.

[LDF]

Don't worry LDF 

 

Anyway this stat, well any stat isn't effective over such a small sample (In this gase 4 outings or so).

 

But the reason's Kips is so high is because of walks.  I know he had a few games with like 6 walks or so in a game.  That moves his base runners up quite a bit.  Also, you don't know when the hits happen.  Some guys may be prone to give up hits with 2 outs as they lose concentration while others may get hammered earlier and give up runs and then calm down. 

 

Overall its a good stat, but if you followed soley that stat then Sirotka would of never had an ERA in the 3's.  If I recall he always had a rather high whip.

thanks too bad fogg is hurt

[Chisoxfn]

I just don't think Fogg will become more then a 5th start on a "good" team. He could prove me wrong. He's got a great curve. I liked him during his short callup a few years back.

[Rex Hudler]

LDF, basically WHIP is an indicator of how many base runners a pitcher allows. If he pitches out of a lot of jams and doesn't give up runs, then a lower ERA is possible. If a greater percentage of his runners score, then his ERA could be higher with the WHIP still low.

 

I like WHIP as an indicator, but as Chisoxfn mentioned the sample size is small this early in the season. Over the long run, the number of runners a pitcher allows should be a fair indicator of his success. I also look at BB/IP and BB/K ratios. None of these independently, including ERA and opponents average, will tell you everything you need to know. But when you look at all of them, you should see some of them tell you the same things, and when they jive, it gives you a good indication of a pitcher's success, aside from the obvious Wins.

[Rex Hudler]

I just don't think Fogg will become more then a 5th start on a "good" team.  He could prove me wrong.  He's got a great curve.  I liked him during his short callup a few years back.

Funny, i never liked his curve. I thought it rolled too much and didn't have enough bite. Granted, I haven't seen him pitch much since 2000, so things could be different. His best asset is that he throws strikes and pitches aggressively.

[BrandoFan]

If I recall he always had a rather high whip

 

That's why the single most important # for a pitcher is not avg-against or WHIP or ERA,

but rather OPS-against. Mike Sirotka had a hell of a year in 2000 (if you consider just how many 4- and 5-out innings he had to pitch over with that atrocious defense and conservatively-estimated 18 unearned runs) but his 3.79 ERA and WHIP numbers didn't really reflect it. His slugging-against was 10th lowest in AL even though he gave up more hits than innings pitched.

 

As far as Fogg (a very good #4 on most teams) goes, I havent followed him at all this season, but I think he wasn't very clutch this season and when he did allow runners on (WHIP), they tended to score more often...whereas Jon Garland's deceptively low 3.75 ERA in 2001 made for an impression that he was actually very good even though his WHIP was worse than it was in 2002 (not to mention the fact that he padded his stats out of the bullpen)

[LDF]

I just don't think Fogg will become more then a 5th start on a "good" team.  He could prove me wrong.  He's got a great curve.  I liked him during his short callup a few years back.

Funny, i never liked his curve. I thought it rolled too much and didn't have enough bite. Granted, I haven't seen him pitch much since 2000, so things could be different. His best asset is that he throws strikes and pitches aggressively.

thanks for the help guys

 

i thought fogg was better in the long relief.

[Chisoxfn]

His best asset is that he throws strikes and pitches aggressively.

I'd agree with you on that. "Show me a pitcher who throws strikes and isn't afraid to throw inside and I'll show you a guy thats going to be sucessful more often then not. "

[YASNY]

His best asset is that he throws strikes and pitches aggressively.

I'd agree with you on that. "Show me a pitcher who throws strikes and isn't afraid to throw inside and I'll show you a guy thats going to be sucessful more often then not. "

Someone forward this observation to Jon Garland, please.

[southsider2k5]

Yep, lower the better.  To me the more important stats is opponents batting avg.  Of course WHIP also takes that into play, but if I'm going to get a pitcher I want to know they don't have a lot of baserunners and that people don't hit him good.  Its usually a sign they have good stuff.

 

Of course ERA and Wins are very important too 

but fogg has a 4.00+ era with a low whip. care to explain that?

For what ever reason Fogg can't pitch out of the stretch effectively is what it sounds like to me. Once runners get on they tend to score.