THE ALL-CITY TEAM

[Kalapse]

You're right that it's not a big deal, but the fact is even despite a slow start from Rowand he's putting up equal or better numbers than Corey Patterson. That writer should have taken EVERYTHING into account and not just a slow start. A .294 OBP for a lead off hitter is a start.

Rowand is having a much better season than Patterson other than HRs. Patterson just gets hella more press because of how over hyped he was when he was in the minors. Rowand quietly made his way up to the majors and has become a very good player, where as Patterson still hasn't come close to living up to the hype.

[Jabroni]

I'm surprised they took El Duque over Z.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Since they picked El Duque over Zambrano (which was stupid), I don't mind them picking Patterson over Rowand.

[CSF]

i've gotta say Patterson makes sense.... the only one i would switch is Politte for Marte

 

not that i think Marte has been awful or anything, but it's time to credit Cliff ........ middle relievers barely get noticed , their only chance is something like this!

 

 

Politte was on that list.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Why do soxtalk members continue to insist that Rownad is better defensively than Patterson? Sometimes I wonder if members here watch other teams play at all. Rowan is solid in Center but Patterson is an extremely good Centerfielder and I hate him so this hurts to say. Offensively, neither have been very good so Patterson gets by on a better rep for talent I guess. Hard to argue at all with the paper's selections.

[Kalapse]

Why do soxtalk members continue to insist that Rownad is better defensively than Patterson? Sometimes I wonder if members here watch other teams play at all. Rowan is solid in Center but Patterson is an extremely good Centerfielder and I hate him so this hurts to say. Offensively, neither have been very good so Patterson gets by on a better rep for talent I guess. Hard to argue at all with the paper's selections.

Rowand's offensive numbers for this season are much more impressive than Patterson's just look at my previous post in this thread.

[nitetrain8601]

Yeah, Patterson is better than Rowand defensively. Put Rowand in another ballpark and he'll have to learn it to play as good defensively as Patterson. Rowand is hotter at the moment, but they've both been equal for the most part. I don't mind that selection.

[Soxy]

I would love to compare this to the pre-season predictions that the trib made position by position. Does anyone know where I could find that?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The writer collects his checks from the trib...I don't mind him letting one selection slide in favor of the cubs...

[SoxFan1]

Patterson over Arow is the only real disputable one. I'm not too sure about Prior over Contreras though. I don't really follow the Flubs so I don;t know what Prior has been doing this season but other than like 5 total innings, Contreras has been dominant.

[WHarris1]

Prior is the right choice over Jose IMO

[Kalapse]

Prior is the right choice over Jose IMO

You'd be correct with that line of thinking.

[GoodAsGould]

zambrano got snubbed with that El Duque pick and Rowand got snubbed with the Patterson pick.... so at the end all is equal.

[witesoxfan]

My only quibble is mentioning Loaiza and Garland in the same sentence--one always had it (just needed to put it all together) and one was a fluke.....

 

 

So who is who?

 

Loaiza always did have the talent, but could never put it together. He adds one pitch to his repertoire(I just demolished that word I think), and he finishes 2nd in the Cy Young balloting, and very easily could have and probably would have won it had the Sox won the division.

 

Garland, on the other hand, while a first round pick, never showed real good stuff, composure, or intensity on the mound, and was a very average pitcher overall --- until this year that is. His stuff looks better, his composure and command on the mound are better, and you can tell by watching him strike out Tejada in the 8th up 3-2, watching him let the first two get on, having 2nd and 3rd and no outs, and see him get out of it without giving up a run, and simply that he is 8-0 2.50ish in his first 8 starts that his intensity on the mound is there. He is very much unaverage, and has been arguably the best pitcher in the majors thus far.

 

Of course, this could also be argued the exact opposite way, and is probably the way 95%+ of people see it. I see it the way I brought it up though...though I also see Loaiza has being horrible at making adjustments, which is why I highly, highly doubt you'll ever see him post an ERA under 4.00 again for the rest of his career as a starter, though I could see him being a very solid reliever if a team wants to venture that way.

[Jabroni]

So who is who?

 

Loaiza always did have the talent, but could never put it together.  He adds one pitch to his repertoire(I just demolished that word I think), and he finishes 2nd in the Cy Young balloting, and very easily could have and probably would have won it had the Sox won the division.

 

Garland, on the other hand, while a first round pick, never showed real good stuff, composure, or intensity on the mound, and was a very average pitcher overall --- until this year that is.  His stuff looks better, his composure and command on the mound are better, and you can tell by watching him strike out Tejada in the 8th up 3-2, watching him let the first two get on, having 2nd and 3rd and no outs, and see him get out of it without giving up a run, and simply that he is 8-0 2.50ish in his first 8 starts that his intensity on the mound is there.  He is very much unaverage, and has been arguably the best pitcher in the majors thus far.

 

Of course, this could also be argued the exact opposite way, and is probably the way 95%+ of people see it.  I see it the way I brought it up though...though I also see Loaiza has being horrible at making adjustments, which is why I highly, highly doubt you'll ever see him post an ERA under 4.00 again for the rest of his career as a starter, though I could see him being a very solid reliever if a team wants to venture that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And maybe Loaiza wasn't a fluke. He lost his cutter last season but maybe he found it again this season. He is pitching really well for the Nationals so far...

 

Esteban Loaiza

9 starts

1-2 record

3.08 ERA

1.17 WHIP

.236 BAA

61.1 IP

44 K

18 BB

Edited May 20, 2005 by Jabroni

[YASNY]

And maybe Loaiza wasn't a fluke.  He lost his cutter last season but maybe he found it again this season.  He is pitching really well for the Nationals so far...

 

Esteban Loaiza

9 starts

1-2 record

3.08 ERA

1.17 WHIP

.236 BAA

61.1 IP

44 K

18 BB

 

Loaiza wasn't a fluke. His problem last year is that he was lazy. He didn't want throw his fastball last year. He was topping out at 88-89 for the Sox, then he was bringing it at 94 during the All Star game. Back with Sox, back down in the 80's. Good luck to him, but good riddance as well.

Edited May 20, 2005 by YASNY

[Controlled Chaos]

ALL CITY TEAM - SUN TIMES

 

Perez over Uribe in this one...hahaha yeah right...

 

 

Lowdown on matchups: More pluses for Sox

 

May 20, 2005

 

BY CHRIS DE LUCA STAFF REPORTER

 

All parties agree that the annual six-game interleague series between the White Sox and Cubs is three games too long. At least they say that now. But when the crowds start roaring and the intensity keeps growing, no will be complaining. The crosstown series is lacking the star power of a Sammy Sosa, Frank Thomas or Magglio Ordonez, but there is still plenty left to keep us entertained.

 

Here's a look at how the White Sox and Cubs match up:

 

 

 

 

FIRST BASE

 

The Cubs' Derrek Lee is the hottest hitter in town, carrying a .362 average with 12 home runs and 37 RBI into the series. Thanks to a .419 average in April, he basically has carried a struggling Cubs team through the first 38 games. He has had one six-RBI game, two five-RBI games and a four-RBI game -- 20 RBI in just four games. Paul Konerko leads the Sox with 29 RBI but is hitting just .211 with 10 homers. Lee is the complete package, with Gold Glove defensive ability and good speed on the bases (eight steals to Konerko's zero).

 

EDGE: CUBS

 

 

 

 

SECOND BASE

 

Tadahito Iguchi seems right at home against major-league pitching. His .304 average makes him the Sox' only starter batting better than .300. His speed was overhyped, but he still has seven steals in nine tries. He offers the steadiest glove in the Sox' infield. Todd Walker (left knee strain) hoped to return from a rehabilitation assignment this weekend, but an 0-for-18 start at Class AAA Iowa derailed those plans. That means Jerry Hairston Jr. will get the bulk of the duty for the Cubs. Hairston gives the Cubs a decent leadoff hitter, but his glove has been suspect.

 

 

EDGE: SOX

 

 

 

 

 

SHORTSTOP

 

Losing Nomar Garciaparra (ruptured tendon in his left groin) on April 20 was a blow to the Cubs. Garciaparra was hitting .157 with no homers and four RBI in his first 15 games. Veteran Neifi Perez stepped in and finished April with a .368 average. Perez has trailed off, but his mostly steady glove and solid bat (.282 average) have softened the blow of losing Garciaparra. Streaky-hitting Juan Uribe is on a 4-for-24 (.167) slide after going on a 20-for-55 (.364) tear from April 20 to May 11. Uribe's .964 fielding percentage is no match for Perez's .987 mark.

 

 

EDGE: CUBS

 

 

 

 

 

THIRD BASE

 

After agreeing to a four-year, $42 million contract with the Cubs on Opening Day, Aramis Ramirez has been a disappointment. Even batting behind the red-hot Lee hasn't helped. Troubled recently by lower-back spasms, Ramirez is hitting just .248 with seven homers and 18 RBI. Still, Ramirez has proved to be more consistent as a major-leaguer than Sox third baseman Joe Crede, who at 27 is no longer a youngster. Thanks to a 1-for-20 slide, Crede's average has dropped from a respectable .304 on April 30 to .256 with three homers and 15 RBI.

 

 

EDGE: CUBS

 

 

 

 

LEFT FIELD

Despite a slow start, Scott Podsednik has been the leadoff hitter the Sox have been lacking. On a 12-for-28 roll, Podsednik takes a .283 average into the Cubs series. Plus, he leads the majors with 24 stolen bases. With Moises Alou off to San Francisco, left field has been a puzzle for the Cubs. Super-sub Todd Hollandsworth overstayed his welcome, hitting .211 with one homer and eight RBI. Rookie Jason Dubois is getting the bulk of the time. He is hitting .250 with four homers and 13 RBI. Neither offers the range of Podsednik.

 

EDGE: SOX

 

 

 

CENTER FIELD

 

The Sox' Aaron Rowand is riding a career-high 12-game hitting streak into the weekend series. He has gone 17-for-46 on the streak to lift his overall average to .278. Rowand has knocked in just 15 runs but has scored 22 -- one behind team-leading Podsednik. Corey Patterson, who has struggled in 18 starts as the Cubs' leadoff hitter, is batting just .253 with an alarming .294 on-base percentage. He does have eight home runs -- all with the bases empty. Patterson covers more ground in center and has a better arm. But the difference in their defense is marginal.

 

EDGE: SOX

 

 

 

RIGHT FIELD

 

This used to be a showdown between Magglio Ordonez and Sammy Sosa. No more. Jeromy Burnitz doesn't get the same kind of love as Sosa enjoyed from the bleacher bums in right field, but he has fit in much better in the clubhouse. Burnitz has shown he can offer some pop without the aid of the thin air at Coors Field. He is hitting .287, and only Derrek Lee has more RBI than Burnitz's 21. His defense has been average -- which is to say much better than Sosa's. Jermaine Dye has struggled to replace Ordonez, hitting .216 and looking lost defensively.

 

EDGE: CUBS

 

 

 

 

 

CATCHER

 

A.J. Pierzynski was a controversial acquisition by the Sox. But he has been a model citizen and has offered more than a solid left-handed bat. Criticized for eroding defensive skills last season, Pierzynski gets a lot of credit for calling some solid games for baseball's most dominant starting staff. He also has hit .266 with seven homers and 16 RBI. Michael Barrett got off to a dreadful start (.167 on April 24) but is 23-for-61 in his last 18 games, lifting his average to .278. He has thrown out 42.3 percent (11-for-26) runners trying to steal after getting just 20 percent (18-for-90) last season.

 

EDGE: SOX

 

 

 

STARTING PITCHING

 

The Cubs' rotation might get all of the attention, but the Sox' staff gets the job done. Sox starters are a combined 23-6. The Cubs' starters, a group of seven pitchers, have combined for a 10-9 mark -- or five fewer victories than the Sox' Jon Garland (8-0) and Mark Buehrle (7-1). Starting pitching has carried the Sox. Garland, who entered the season as the fifth starter, is the first pitcher in the majors to reach eight victories. Injuries to Kerry Wood (shoulder), Mark Prior (elbow) and Carlos Zambrano (elbow) have raised concerns about the durability of the Cubs' starters. Veteran Greg Maddux is 2-1 but has a 4.15 ERA.

 

EDGE: SOX

 

 

 

RELIEF PITCHING

 

Here's the difference between the two bullpens: The Cubs' original closer (LaTroy Hawkins) struggled early, and the Cubs spun their wheels seeking a new closer, running a succession of pitchers through ninth-inning work. The Sox' original closer (Shingo Takatsu) struggled early, and Dustin Hermanson -- whom the Cubs passed on during the offseason -- moved seamlessly into the job. Hermanson has not allowed a run this season, spanning 191/3 innings, and is 9-for-9 in save chances. The Cubs finally settled on Ryan Dempster, who blew his first save chance but converted his next two.

 

EDGE: SOX

 

 

BENCH

 

White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen has done a good job of getting most of his players involved. Timo Perez, Pablo Ozuna, Willie Harris and Chris Widger haven't grown rusty sitting on the bench. Injuries forced Cubs manager Dusty Baker to take the best elements of his bench -- infielder Neifi Perez and outfielder Todd Hollandsworth -- and push them into the starting lineup. With Jason Dubois getting more time in left field, Hollandsworth and his left-handed bat return to the bench.

 

EDGE: SOX

 

 

 

MANAGER

 

Ozzie Guillen said it best last season, during a major meltdown by former closer Billy Koch: A manager looks like a genius when his closer does the job and looks terrible when the bullpen collapses. If that's the formula for success, Guillen leaves Dusty Baker in the dust. But Baker deserves credit for keeping the Cubs close to .500 despite an early rash of injuries that has robbed him of a key starter (Kerry Wood), two closers (Joe Borowski and Chad Fox), a superstar shortstop (Nomar Garciaparra) and a solid second baseman (Todd Walker). Guillen gets credit for keeping his players loose and for not letting them get too full of themselves.

 

 

 

Actually after looking at the stats I guess Uribe and Perez are pretty close, but I still pick Uribe....they needed a Cub so let them pick Nefi. I'll take that over Patterson/Rowand.

Edited May 20, 2005 by Controlled Chaos