Horrible Abuses in Bagram, 2000 page file reveals

[LowerCaseRepublican]

nuke 'em all

 

So, supporting mass murder and genocide of millions of people -- and those who echo that sort of sentiment as denoted in the quoted post are better than Hellbent Wahabbi extremists how?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Nobody said any f***ing thing about humane treatment.  We were talking about due process.  Stop putting words in my mouth or twisting my words for your own bulls***.

Wow. My apologies for assuming that 15 months of detention/interrogation in the absence of due process presupposed that treatment during that period might be less than civilized.

 

It's not my bulls***. It's the bulls*** of those military and non-military personnel directly involved, those in higher positions who gave them tacit approval to act in the manner they did, and the Administration that refuses to accept responsibility for it.

 

Yas, there's a gesturing smiley I'm looking for that seems to have gone missing at the moment or I'd probably use it.

[YASNY]

Wow.  My apologies for assuming that 15 months of detention/interrogation in the absence of due process presupposed that treatment during that period might be less than civilized.

 

It's not my bulls***.  It's the bulls*** of those military and non-military personnel directly involved, those in higher positions who gave them tacit approval to act in the manner they did, and the Administration that refuses to accept responsibility for it.

 

Yas, there's a gesturing smiley I'm looking for that seems to have gone missing at the moment or I'd probably use it.

 

If you are talking about terrorist detainees, I couldn't give a s*** whether they get due process or not. I also couldn't give a s*** what gesturing smilies you send my way.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

If you are talking about terrorist detainees, I couldn't give a s*** whether they get due process or not.  I also couldn't give a s*** what gesturing smilies you send my way.

YAS, I'm assuming you mean ones in the States as "potential terrorist detainees". Don't you think that it is a very dangerous precedent to give government (same government that gave us fun things like "I am not a crook", COINTELPRO, the My Lai coverup etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) the approval to hold people without charges for months on end all because they use a certain word to describe them -- if they are so sure of the terrorist ties, try them in a court of law. Remember YAS, "innocent until proven guilty". It is the cornerstone of American legal society.

 

And if you couldn't give a s*** about smileys then let me for no reason introduce the following

Edited May 20, 2005 by LowerCaseRepublican

[YASNY]

YAS, I'm assuming you mean ones in the States as "potential terrorist detainees".  Don't you think that it is a very dangerous precedent to give government the approval to hold people without charges for months on end all because they use a certain word to describe them -- if they are so sure of the terrorist ties, try them in a court of law.  Remember YAS, "innocent until proven guilty".  It is the cornerstone of American legal society.

 

And if you couldn't give a s*** about smileys then let me for no reason introduce the following         

 

I'm referring to the ones they have pulled in from Afghanistan and Iraq. Not any US located persons.

[sec159row2]

So, supporting mass murder and genocide of millions of people -- and those who echo that sort of sentiment as denoted in the quoted post are better than Hellbent Wahabbi extremists how?

 

what???

 

you can't say things like this because I want to be the most ignorant poster, and you are taking my spotlight...

 

let jack bauer sort 'em out

[sec159row2]

So, supporting mass murder and genocide of millions of people -- and those who echo that sort of sentiment as denoted in the quoted post are better than Hellbent Wahabbi extremists how?

 

my koran/quran says mass murder and genocide are OK...

[Soxy]

my koran/quran says mass murder and genocide are OK...

Um, actually, no, it doesn't.

[Controlled Chaos]

The media seems to have no problem minding its business when it comes to showing the good our solidiers are doing in Iraq, Afganistan, and around the world in general.  All of our boys and our country is being painted as blood thirsty savages.  This is bigger than one parties political agenda, or at least it should be.  When was the last time you saw a picture of American's building new roads in Iraq?  Or a little girl going to school for the first time in Afganistan?  But I'll bet you have seen a picture of Lyndie England in the last month. 

 

Yes the media has a role in opening up scandals, as they are the final check and balance of government.  But their agenda needs to be bigger than taking down a President.  They are daily putting our lives in danger, not just our soldiers.  If their were images of Americans saving lives around the world, that might go towards actually showing that the vast majority of American's want the world to be a better place.  Instead the media only concentrates on the worst of the worst. 

 

Feeling the hate we do from the rest of the world, makes me want to close up shop and say screw the rest of the world.  Pull out all of our companies, resources, food, aid companies etc, and let them see how they get along without the great satan.  They all hate us, but where is the first place they turn to when they need help?  Who is in there saving the lives of Iranians after their huge earthquake?  It wasn't the Russians who are selling them the bomb making equiptment they hope to someday use against us I will tell you that much.  It is us.  The citizens of this country give self-lessly to the rest of the world, more than the rest of the world gives combined, yet we are the evil ones.  What does the Muslim world provide for our poor and starving people?  Did they offer to send rescue crews and relief aid after all of the hurricanes hit Florida?  Nope.

 

I am sick of it.  I am sick of being protraying as treating the rest of the world as a doormatt by our own citizens, and having my life put in danger because of it.  All because they want to sell a few more newspapers.  Hell the reporting of the abuse of American;s, our families mind you,  doesn't even get reported as much as the abuse of other people?  This same kind of stuff happens in our own prision systems everyday, but are there reports about that?  Nope.

 

I am f***ing sick of it all.

 

Sorry just got around to reading this now.... GREAT POST!!

[KipWellsFan]

The media seems to have no problem minding its business when it comes to showing the good our solidiers are doing in Iraq, Afganistan, and around the world in general.  All of our boys and our country is being painted as blood thirsty savages.  This is bigger than one parties political agenda, or at least it should be.  When was the last time you saw a picture of American's building new roads in Iraq?  Or a little girl going to school for the first time in Afganistan?  But I'll bet you have seen a picture of Lyndie England in the last month. 

 

Yes the media has a role in opening up scandals, as they are the final check and balance of government.  But their agenda needs to be bigger than taking down a President.  They are daily putting our lives in danger, not just our soldiers.  If their were images of Americans saving lives around the world, that might go towards actually showing that the vast majority of American's want the world to be a better place.  Instead the media only concentrates on the worst of the worst. 

 

Feeling the hate we do from the rest of the world, makes me want to close up shop and say screw the rest of the world.  Pull out all of our companies, resources, food, aid companies etc, and let them see how they get along without the great satan.  They all hate us, but where is the first place they turn to when they need help?  Who is in there saving the lives of Iranians after their huge earthquake?  It wasn't the Russians who are selling them the bomb making equiptment they hope to someday use against us I will tell you that much.  It is us.  The citizens of this country give self-lessly to the rest of the world, more than the rest of the world gives combined, yet we are the evil ones.  What does the Muslim world provide for our poor and starving people?  Did they offer to send rescue crews and relief aid after all of the hurricanes hit Florida?  Nope.

 

I am sick of it.  I am sick of being protraying as treating the rest of the world as a doormatt by our own citizens, and having my life put in danger because of it.  All because they want to sell a few more newspapers.  Hell the reporting of the abuse of American;s, our families mind you,  doesn't even get reported as much as the abuse of other people?  This same kind of stuff happens in our own prision systems everyday, but are there reports about that?  Nope.

 

I am f***ing sick of it all.

 

I wouldn't worry so much, cbsnews.com foxnews.com and cnn.com aren't saying anything about this. Yet...

 

Frickin Liberal Media

[sec159row2]

Um, actually, no, it doesn't.

 

let me get it out of the toilet to show you...

Edited May 20, 2005 by sec159row2

[TheBigHurt35]

You are twisting again.  If I'm not mistaken, we both (BH and I) acknowledged the need for this particular story to be reported. 

 

BigHurt, if I am mistaken, I apologize.

 

You are not mistaken at all. Like you, I do support the reporting of torture by our military. Torture should not be a viable interrogation technique.

 

Back in the days when our media wasn't so blatantly partisan and actually gave a damn about the welfare of our troops, stuff like this happened all of the time. Do you not think that our military did similar things in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam? Hell, it was even worse back then: Where was the NY Times when Roosevelt unlawfully sent Japanese Americans to detention camps? And FDR is widely-regarded as one of our nation's greatest presidents.

 

The bottom line is that ANY military is going mistreat at least a few prisoners in a time of war. I'm not trying to excuse or justify it, but it happens. And I'l bet that our military is much more humane than, say, China's or Russia's. The American public holds our military to incredibly high (and some might argue unreasonably high) standards of conduct in times of war. And I believe that our media outlets have the right to report blatant human rights abuses. But the partisan bias of today's media goes far beyond that. Does the (alleged) flushing of pages of the Koran down a toilet qualify as a human rights abuse? Did the NY Times need to run 53 (!) front-page articles on Abu Ghraib? These aren't cases of fair and biased journalism... they're cases of blatant political mud-slinging that undermine our military's efforts and put our troops in even further danger.

 

Just as our troops should be held accountable for their actions, so should our media.

Edited May 20, 2005 by TheBigHurt35

[TheBigHurt35]

The media seems to have no problem minding its business when it comes to showing the good our solidiers are doing in Iraq, Afganistan, and around the world in general.  All of our boys and our country is being painted as blood thirsty savages.  This is bigger than one parties political agenda, or at least it should be.  When was the last time you saw a picture of American's building new roads in Iraq?  Or a little girl going to school for the first time in Afganistan?  But I'll bet you have seen a picture of Lyndie England in the last month. 

 

Yes the media has a role in opening up scandals, as they are the final check and balance of government.  But their agenda needs to be bigger than taking down a President.  They are daily putting our lives in danger, not just our soldiers.  If their were images of Americans saving lives around the world, that might go towards actually showing that the vast majority of American's want the world to be a better place.  Instead the media only concentrates on the worst of the worst. 

 

Feeling the hate we do from the rest of the world, makes me want to close up shop and say screw the rest of the world.  Pull out all of our companies, resources, food, aid companies etc, and let them see how they get along without the great satan.  They all hate us, but where is the first place they turn to when they need help?  Who is in there saving the lives of Iranians after their huge earthquake?  It wasn't the Russians who are selling them the bomb making equiptment they hope to someday use against us I will tell you that much.  It is us.  The citizens of this country give self-lessly to the rest of the world, more than the rest of the world gives combined, yet we are the evil ones.  What does the Muslim world provide for our poor and starving people?  Did they offer to send rescue crews and relief aid after all of the hurricanes hit Florida?  Nope.

 

I am sick of it.  I am sick of being protraying as treating the rest of the world as a doormatt by our own citizens, and having my life put in danger because of it.  All because they want to sell a few more newspapers.  Hell the reporting of the abuse of American;s, our families mind you,  doesn't even get reported as much as the abuse of other people?  This same kind of stuff happens in our own prision systems everyday, but are there reports about that?  Nope.

 

I am f***ing sick of it all.

 

Was busy earlier today and didn't have time to repond to this.

 

VERY well-said.

[KipWellsFan]

You are not mistaken at all.  Like you, I do support the reporting of torture by our military.  Torture should not be a viable interrogation technique.

 

Back in the days when our media wasn't so blatantly partisan and actually gave a damn about the welfare of our troops, stuff like this happened all of the time.  Do you not think that our military did similar things in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam?  Hell, it was even worse back then: Where was the NY Times when Roosevelt unlawfully sent Japanese Americans to detention camps?  And FDR is widely-regarded as one of our nation's greatest presidents.

 

The bottom line is that ANY military is going mistreat at least a few prisoners in a time of war.  I'm not trying to excuse or justify it, but it happens.  And I'l bet that our military is much more humane than, say, China's or Russia's.  The American public holds our military to incredibly high (and some might argue unreasonably high) standards of conduct in times of war.  And I believe that our media outlets have the right to report blatant human rights abuses.  But the partisan bias of today's media goes far beyond that.  Does the (alleged) flushing of pages of the Koran down a toilet qualify as a human rights abuse?  Did the NY Times need to run 53 (!) front-page articles on Abu Ghraib?  These aren't cases of fair and biased journalism... they're cases of blatant political mud-slinging that undermine our military's efforts and put our troops in even further danger.

 

Just as our troops should be held accountable for their actions, so should our media.

 

Stop worrying, other than the Times no one is reporting this.

[TheBigHurt35]

Stop worrying, other than the Times no one is reporting this.

 

No clear-thinking person takes the NY Times seriously anymore.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Terrorists aren't entitled to due process, so comparing their treatment to those of American citizens is ridiculous.

 

Agreed , though, that torturing enemy combatants (even ones that had killed our soldiers and/or innocent civilians) is wrong.

 

 

I just love how the media makes out anyone who ever did time in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo as a saint and our soldiers and government as criminals. f***ing pathetic.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

No clear-thinking person takes the NY Times seriously anymore.

 

The board of directors at the NT times are little more than the politboro for the American left.

Edited May 20, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[KipWellsFan]

No clear-thinking person takes the NY Times seriously anymore.

 

Well even better then, no clear-thinking person would have ever heard about this story.

 

Phew

[FlaSoxxJim]

Hours before flying to Washington for talks with President Bush, Afghan leader Hamid Karzai demanded greater control Saturday over American military operations in his country and called for vigorous punishment of any U.S. troops who mistreat prisoners.

 

He also said he wants the United States to hand over all Afghan prisoners still in U.S. custody.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=778574