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Red's Closer Released..Do the Sox pick him up?


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If he clears waivesr than hell ya I'd go after him. This guy has been a very good reliever in the past and may just be suffering from the effects of being on the Reds for so long.

 

He obviously hasn't been right htis year but sometimes a change of scenery is all it takes and if he clears waivers the Sox would be able to get him at the league minimum with the Reds picking up the rest of the tab.

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QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 23, 2005 -> 09:52 PM)
If he clears waivesr than hell ya I'd go after him.  This guy has been a very good reliever in the past and may just be suffering from the effects of being on the Reds for so long.

 

He obviously hasn't been right htis year but sometimes a change of scenery is all it takes and if he clears waivers the Sox would be able to get him at the league minimum with the Reds picking up the rest of the tab.

 

 

But you have to be sure he has something left in the tank to be effective. We don't need to take any chances of someone who can't cut it anymore on another team. Making the assumption all he needs is a change of scenery may not be the best assumption one should be making. He just might not have it anymore. Major league scouts might know a bit about what he might still be capable of doing.

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QUOTE(elrockinMT @ May 23, 2005 -> 01:57 PM)
But you have to be sure he has something left in the tank to be effective. We don't need to take any chances of someone who can't cut it anymore on another team. Making the assumption all he needs is a change of scenery may not be the best assumption one should be making. He just might not have it anymore. Major league scouts might know a bit about what he might still be capable of doing.

Last year Graves had 41 saves and a 3.95 ERA. Now that ERA wasn't all that grand and there were better closers, but thats not too shabby.

 

Plus Graves is a lot like Keith Foulke...he doesn't rely on his fastball, he relies on a very good changeup. Graves has had one bad year prior to this and that was when he was put into the starting rotation and couldn't handle it.

 

Considering he's what 31 years old I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do it again.

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QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 23, 2005 -> 01:59 PM)
I hope to hell not.  His fastball is down to 86 - 87 mph.  He's basically Shingo without the frisbee.  And that's why his ERA is 7.36.

He's never relied on his fastball in his life, just like Keith Foulke hasn't.

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He's never relied on his fastball in his life, just like Keith Foulke hasn't.

Or his arm could be injured...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/search/cont...y/0523reds.html

When Graves came to the dugout and paced, a fan who could see into the dugout screamed at him. Graves swore back and flipped the proverbial bird.

 

Asked about it, Graves said, "That's not an issue. I don't concern myself with it. I addressed the fan issue a couple weeks ago and it got blown completely out of proportion."

 

And Graves got blown completely out of the water ... again.

 

Asked if he wondered about his immediate future as the club's closer, Graves said, "I'm not worried about losing my job or getting released. That's not my decision, that's up to the staff and management.

 

"I have 182 career saves and I know how to do this job," he added. "It has been a struggle for a while now and I can't figure it out. I have no answers. Too often lately my stuff is not there and it's no fun going out there and not being able to do the job."

 

Graves admits his velocity is down, has been for three years, from 92 to 93 miles an hour to 86 and 87 miles an hour.

 

"We have to evaluate, see if there is a flaw in my mechanics," he said. "Health-wise, I'm great and that's what baffles me. Is there a flaw in my delivery? Why is my velocity down? Maybe it's because I'm getting older."

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QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 23, 2005 -> 02:04 PM)

Ya, his velocity has been down for 3 years now, yet he still saved over 40 games last year. Trevor Hoffman once pitched in the low to mid 90's, now he's lucky if he touches 90 and that hasn't ruined his effectiveness.

 

Graves realies on an awesome straight changeup...its nearly as good as Foulkes and thats why he's been good. Now maybe he has a hitch in his delivery and its having an effect on his changeup or maybe he's just having problems locate and is in a funk. s***, it happens, guys get in slumps.

 

All I'm saying is Graves has long pitched in the upper 80's to low 90's. Just watch him pitch, anyone that is going to tell me he consistently threw 92-93 is full of it. Maybe every once in a while he'd get it there, but thats it (at least thats been the case the past couple years...not just this year).

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QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 23, 2005 -> 02:11 PM)
He saved 40 games with a 3.95 ERA in the N.L.  That's not necessarily good, that's a lot of luck.

Luck...maybe, but its not lucky to put up good numbers every single major league season sans one (where he was moved into the rotation).

 

Gimme a f***ing break....the guy isnt' some one year wonder he was one of the better relievers in baseball for a few years and was still a good reliever the past couple (minus his stint in the rotation).

 

Why I respond to your posts I'll never know. Now he may come to a new team and fail, but to say this guy is a turd and was just lucky over the years...ROFL. Jamie Moyer was lucky too.

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Luck...maybe, but its not lucky to put up good numbers every single major league season sans one (where he was moved into the rotation). 

 

Gimme a f***ing break....the guy isnt' some one year wonder he was one of the better relievers in baseball for a few years and was still a good reliever the past couple (minus his stint in the rotation). 

 

Why I respond to your posts I'll never know.  Now he may come to a new team and fail, but to say this guy is a turd and was just lucky over the years...ROFL.  Jamie Moyer was lucky too.

I never said that he was NEVER good. I just don't think he's THAT good anymore. I also don't think that he was ever the dominating closer that you make him out to be. Dominating closers don't have a 3.95 ERA in the N.L. It's a shame that you have a problem responding to my posts just because I disagree with you.

Edited by Jabroni
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QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 23, 2005 -> 02:16 PM)
I never said that he was NEVER good.  I just don't think he's THAT good anymore.  I also don't think that he was ever the dominating closer that you make him out to be.  Dominating closers don't have a 3.95 ERA in the N.L.  It's a shame that you can't respond to my posts just because I disagree with you.

NL/AL big freaking difference. Its not near that big of a deal when your closing out the game because your never going to face the opposing pitcher. Sure they may not have a DH, but they will at least have a semi decent pinch hitter for the most part when the pitchers position hits.

 

There is almost ZERO difference between closing in the AL or NL Jabroni.

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NL/AL big freaking difference.  Its not near that big of a deal when your closing out the game because your never going to face the opposing pitcher.  Sure they may not have a DH, but they will at least have a semi decent pinch hitter for the most part when the pitchers position hits.

 

There is almost ZERO difference between closing in the AL or NL Jabroni.

So there's "almost ZERO difference" between facing a DH like David Ortiz or a pinch-hitter like Todd Hollandsworth? Wow.

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QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 23, 2005 -> 02:24 PM)
So there's "almost ZERO difference" between facing a DH like David Ortiz or a pinch-hitter like Todd Hollandsworth?  Wow.

No, I'm referring to the difference between the 9 hitter in the AL and the 9 hitter in the NL when your closing. Most teams (Both AL and NL) have a few power hitters and if your going through the 3-4-5 of the lineup regardless of whether the team has a dH or not, its usually going to be tough sailing.

 

And the difference between some 9 hole hitter in the AL and a pinch hitter in the NL is very minimal. If someone looked at the stats I'm sure there isn't much any fluctuation between a closers sucess in the AL/NL in terms of ERA, etc.

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QUOTE(kyyle23 @ May 23, 2005 -> 04:42 PM)
Any word as to why he was released?

he made an "obscene gesture" at a fan...he's been struggling lately and getting s*** about it from fans and the media.

 

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 23, 2005 -> 04:59 PM)
I hope to hell not.  His fastball is down to 86 - 87 mph.  He's basically Shingo without the frisbee.  And that's why his ERA is 7.36.

not quite. he had 40-somethin saves last year on the Reds, and that's an achievement itself. I heard during spring training that his velocity is down, and that he'd get shelled. that report was right, maybe it's temporary or maybe it's not, but I wouldn't mind either way, if the Sox pick him up or not.

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Guest JimH

The White Sox are usually on top of stuff like this. If they think it's a mechanics issue, and they think they can fix it, they might try to land him.

 

Graves' velo is down but his biggest issue has been poor location. That's why he's been such a steady pitcher over the years, good location. That and the nasty changeup.

 

Poor location generally means bad mechanics, bad mechanics can easily lead to a loss of velocity. The issue of concern is, the velocity has been down for quite a while. But at age 31, it's not like he's in Mike Jackson territory.

 

You'd think the Cubs would be all over this guy. Were he to come to the Sox it'd be because they think he's better than Shingo or Vizcaino.

 

I do like the fact that he's battle tested and has a lot of guts. That's a big plus.

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