Just to let people know

[tempe85]

Ervin Santana (who actually was named Johan Santana a couple years ago...but changed it so no one would be confused with the Twins' Santana) is one of the best minor league pitchers for the Angels (if not the best). The Angels are well known for their stacked minor league pitching staff, having already brought up pitchers like Donnelly, K-Rod, Scot Shields, Lackey, and Woods in only the past couple years.

 

The guy that beat you today isn't the 13.50 ERA guy that everyone thought they were facing. This guy is really good, in a couple years he could be great.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...s_2004_parttwo/

 

This site listed him has the 20th best prospect in all of the minor leagues last year.

[qwerty]

Shh...

 

 

Welsome to soxtalk.

[rangercal]

Ervin Santana (who actually was named Johan Santana a couple years ago...but changed it so no one would be confused with the Twins' Santana) is one of the best minor league pitchers for the Angels (if not the best). The Angels are well known for their stacked minor league pitching staff, having already brought up pitchers like Donnelly, K-Rod, Scot Shields,  Lackey, and Woods in only the past couple years.

 

The guy that beat you today isn't the 13.50 ERA guy that everyone thought they were facing. This guy is really good, in a couple years he could be great.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...s_2004_parttwo/

 

This site listed him has the 20th best prospect in all of the minor leagues last year.

2 johan santanas???

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

Hey Tempe...welcome aboard

 

I'm guessing your an Angel fan? Just going off the tempe (considering thats where the Angels play there spring ball).

 

Anyway your right and I know a lot of people just looked at his ERA and thought chump. Santana isn't just the best minor league pitchers in the Angels system but he's one of the best in the bigs.

 

I still think he's up a little early but he's in the same class as the Sox Brandon McCarthy in the sense that he has the ability to come up and make an immediate impact.

[tempe85]

Hey Tempe...welcome aboard

 

I'm guessing your an Angel fan?  Just going off the tempe (considering thats where the Angels play there spring ball).

 

Anyway your right and I know a lot of people just looked at his ERA and thought chump.  Santana isn't just the best minor league pitchers in the Angels system but he's one of the best in the bigs. 

 

I still think he's up a little early but he's in the same class as the Sox Brandon McCarthy in the sense that he has the ability to come up and make an immediate impact.

 

I am an Angels fan but don't worry I don't plan to cause a rukus

 

Anyways I think it was just a combination of him being really good and that no one knows anything about him in the majors (no scouting reports) which allowed him to have a really good game.

[qwerty]

I still think he's up a little early but he's in the same class as the Sox Brandon McCarthy in the sense that he has the ability to come up and make an immediate impact.

 

He needs at least a half more year in the minors. I know he threw a hell of a game today but he will still have his share of games like he had against the indians unless he gets some more time in the minors to work on things.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I am an Angels fan but don't worry I don't plan to cause a rukus

 

Anyways I think it was just a combination of him being really good and that no one knows anything about him in the majors (no scouting reports) which allowed him to have a really good game.

Jason is a Angels season tix holder, so it's not like you're not welcome around here...

 

The scouting report thing is exactly what I was going to say. Actually I was going to wait until the morning and just agree with JimH when he said it. The advance scouts for this team either don't exist, or spend a lot of time scouting which minor league stadium has the best concession stands.

 

No doubt Santana looked great tonight, but our hitters looked like they watched a 1 minute video of Santana allowing the Cycle to the first 4 batters he faced, and they were like "yeah, we've got this"

[mmmmmbeeer]

Ervin Santana (who actually was named Johan Santana a couple years ago...but changed it so no one would be confused with the Twins' Santana) is one of the best minor league pitchers for the Angels (if not the best). The Angels are well known for their stacked minor league pitching staff, having already brought up pitchers like Donnelly, K-Rod, Scot Shields,  Lackey, and Woods in only the past couple years.

 

The guy that beat you today isn't the 13.50 ERA guy that everyone thought they were facing. This guy is really good, in a couple years he could be great.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...s_2004_parttwo/

 

This site listed him has the 20th best prospect in all of the minor leagues last year.

 

 

Thanks for bringing this up. I happened to read about Ervin this morning on Rotoworld's waiver wire picks. Sounded like the guy had certainly earned some big time respect in the ml's.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Jason is a Angels season tix holder, so it's not like you're not welcome around here... 

 

The scouting report thing is exactly what I was going to say. Actually I was going to wait until the morning and just agree with JimH when he said it. The advance scouts for this team either don't exist, or spend a lot of time scouting which minor league stadium has the best concession stands. 

 

No doubt Santana looked great tonight, but our hitters looked like they watched a 1 minute video of Santana allowing the Cycle to the first 4 batters he faced, and they were like "yeah, we've got this"

 

 

Santana didn't do anything different than any other pitcher that shut us down this year. All he did was throw a fastball over for the first pitch then go away with junk the rest of the at bat.

 

Not like we made it that hard for him.

 

You mention scouting reports? I'd wager that the scouting reports on our lineup say exactly what I just said here.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I wonder how many 94 MPH fastballs with late breaking movement Nuke has hit. Let alone one that was spotted like Santana was last night.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I wonder how many 94 MPH fastballs with late breaking movement Nuke has hit. Let alone one that was spotted like Santana was last night.

 

 

As opposed to how many breaking pitches away that guys like Crede waved at and missed?

 

 

Watching the highlights (if you can call them that ) again on MLBTV I counted 7 strikeouts on off speed stuff between 80-85. 6 of those Ks were junk low and away.

Edited May 24, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[DonkeyKongerko]

Late breaking junk ok? You tell him to be aggressive on fastballs down the middle and take all the sliders outside. It's alot easier said than done.

 

Here, buy MVP 2005. Turn the sliders all the way up with variable strike zone, turn off the hitter's eye. Turn the pitch speeds way up and turn down your own contact. Then have someone throw you 94 mph cutters or fastballs mixed with nasty sliders with maybe Brad Lidge.

 

We can't expect Joe Crede to have a perfect AB every single time. We can hope or pray he hits above .260 but there's no secret you can tell him that will make him any better.

[qwerty]

As opposed to how many breaking pitches away that guys like Crede waved at and missed?

 

 

Watching the highlights (if you can call them that ) again on MLBTV I counted 7 strikeouts on off speed stuff between 80-85.  6 of those Ks were junk low and away.

 

Not many people are gonna hit his off speed pitches when he is throwing 94-95 with pin point control. He is one of the best pitchers in the minors for a reason, he is very good. Most of his change ups were is the 82-83 range and a 12 mile an hour difference of off your nasty fast ball is sick.

Edited May 24, 2005 by qwerty

[Chisoxfn]

As opposed to how many breaking pitches away that guys like Crede waved at and missed?

 

 

Watching the highlights (if you can call them that ) again on MLBTV I counted 7 strikeouts on off speed stuff between 80-85.  6 of those Ks were junk low and away.

Thats what happens when a guy is locating and your always finding yourself down in the count 1-2, 0-2. Your in a defensive mode and the breaking pitch looks like it may be close and bam you swing and it ends up being outside.

[Chisoxfn]

I am an Angels fan but don't worry I don't plan to cause a rukus

 

Anyways I think it was just a combination of him being really good and that no one knows anything about him in the majors (no scouting reports) which allowed him to have a really good game.

Hey no worries from me. My dad and I have season tickets to the Angels (they are my 2nd favorite team...next to my beloved Sox). Plus its always good hearing good insite from fans of other teams.

 

Tomorrow I got a feeling the Sox will put up a bit of a fight but the Angels don't give up. They are a lot like the Twins in the sense that they do all the little things to help them win. For example they came up with clutch hits whenever they were needed and it was the difference.

 

I guess this was Santana's last start as I know Hudler/Pyschioc mentioned that Escobar was going to come off the DL. On an Angel related sidenote, can you even stand listening to Hudler? A few years back when Hudler was recovering from his aneurism (I think thats what he had) Mark Langston was in the booth and man was that just a total joy to listen to as opposed to Hud.

[southsideirish71]

Late breaking junk ok?  You tell him to be aggressive on fastballs down the middle and take all the sliders outside.  It's alot easier said than done.

 

Here, buy MVP 2005.  Turn the sliders all the way up with variable strike zone, turn off the hitter's eye.  Turn the pitch speeds way up and turn down your own contact.  Then have someone throw you 94 mph cutters or fastballs mixed with nasty sliders with maybe Brad Lidge.

 

We can't expect Joe Crede to have a perfect AB every single time.  We can hope or pray he hits above .260 but there's no secret you can tell him that will make him any better.

 

 

Lets stop with this is the second coming of Nolan Ryan. This was a rookie with a good arm hitting the outside corner. He was tossing a fastball pretty much all the time for strike one. Then using his slider to see if people would reach. Our hitters could of taken a different approach and gotten a bit closer to the plate, and maybe cut down on their swings. But they were taking full long looping swings trying to hit the kid hard. He took advantage of some free swingers who didnt have the sense to adjust to the situation.

 

Joe Crede has a wonderful .164 BA in May with a .524 OPS

Everett is batting 204 in May

Timo is hitting 200 in May

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Thats what happens when a guy is locating and your always finding yourself down in the count 1-2, 0-2.  Your in a defensive mode and the breaking pitch looks like it may be close and bam you swing and it ends up being outside.

 

 

Yup and those 0-2, 1-2 counts are coming from us letting a first pitch fastball right over go by for strike 1.

[Chisoxfn]

Yup and those 0-2, 1-2 counts are coming from us letting a first pitch fastball right over go by for strike 1.

Now forgive me, I didn't see the 1st 4 innings so I don't know what Santana was throwing than but from the time I turned the game on Santana was also throwing 1st pitch changeups for strikes and when he was throwing that fastball he wasn't throwing it down the tube.

 

He was painting the corner on the 1st pitch fastball and when a guy locates his fastball, its not a pitch you want to swing at (especially on the 1st pitch, imo).

 

Now I'm with cheat and tempe in terms of advance scouting. Since everyone seems to say he was pitching all day on the outside portion, which means you gotta start noticing that and adjusting to it. If this is what he does down in the minors as well as in the majors you should at least have that idea. The Sox definately didn't have that idea.

 

Thats not to take anything away from Santana though, its not easy pinpointing your stuff like he was tonight and he was throwing his fastball, change, and sliders for strikes.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Timo is hitting 200 in May

You say that like it's a bad thing.... That's actually an improvement.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Now forgive me, I didn't see the 1st 4 innings so I don't know what Santana was throwing than but from the time I turned the game on Santana was also throwing 1st pitch changeups for strikes and when he was throwing that fastball he wasn't throwing it down the tube. 

 

He was painting the corner on the 1st pitch fastball and when a guy locates his fastball, its not a pitch you want to swing at (especially on the 1st pitch, imo). 

 

Now I'm with cheat and tempe in terms of advance scouting.  Since everyone seems to say he was pitching all day on the outside portion, which means you gotta start noticing that and adjusting to it.  If this is what he does down in the minors as well as in the majors you should at least have that idea.  The Sox definately didn't have that idea. 

 

Thats not to take anything away from Santana though, its not easy pinpointing your stuff like he was tonight and he was throwing his fastball, change, and sliders for strikes.

 

 

Dont misunderstand. I give the kid his props. As you said he hit his spots beautifully and that set up the junk balls low and away for strikeouts. You have to make adjustments though and we didn't

Edited May 24, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[Chisoxfn]

You say that like it's a bad thing.... That's actually an improvement.

Lol, I was about to say that. He hit something like .190 in April

 

Cheat I think a whole lot of us are going to be really happy in a week when Gload and Thomas are back...it means no Walker and no Timo.

 

And if its somehow Willie that gets demoted, I may just cry

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

You say that like it's a bad thing.... That's actually an improvement.

 

 

Sad isin't it?

 

LOL

 

Worse still is that Crede has dropped 70 points off his average since his hitting streak got snapped.

[southsideirish71]

Now forgive me, I didn't see the 1st 4 innings so I don't know what Santana was throwing than but from the time I turned the game on Santana was also throwing 1st pitch changeups for strikes and when he was throwing that fastball he wasn't throwing it down the tube. 

 

He was painting the corner on the 1st pitch fastball and when a guy locates his fastball, its not a pitch you want to swing at (especially on the 1st pitch, imo). 

 

Now I'm with cheat and tempe in terms of advance scouting.  Since everyone seems to say he was pitching all day on the outside portion, which means you gotta start noticing that and adjusting to it.  If this is what he does down in the minors as well as in the majors you should at least have that idea.  The Sox definately didn't have that idea. 

 

Thats not to take anything away from Santana though, its not easy pinpointing your stuff like he was tonight and he was throwing his fastball, change, and sliders for strikes.

 

 

For the first few innings, it was fastball, fastball slider. Pretty much on every single batter. The two fastballs were either down the middle or on the outside corner. After the fastball hit the outside corner that slider made them look silly. The gameplan seemed to be take pitches to see if the rook would get into trouble. After the first few batters we should of changed that gameplan as he was throwing strikes. I have seen way too many pitchers take a similiar approach with the sox, it seems to be the scouting report on us.

[tempe85]

Wow I actually read this was the first time all year the Sox were shut out.... that's impressive (for both the Sox and Santana). My Angels have been shut out.... let's see.... hmm... frig I lost count at 20.

 

LOL

 

 

By the way I just have to add how impressed I am of the White Sox this year. I really should have seen it coming... I mean a rotation of Buerhle-Garcia-Contreras-Hernandez-Garland when they're pitching up to their capabilities is one of the best and deepest in the league. Heck you guys haven't even hit your stride with your hitters and your record is still steller. I also have to add getting Podsendik was a steal... that guy can do everything.

Edited May 24, 2005 by tempe85

[DBAHO]

What third baseman's out there are FA's this off-season. A stopgap guy could be needed until Josh Fields is ready the way Crede has been going lately, but lets hope he can turn it around, and hit like he did in April.