Trade Revisited

[ChWRoCk2]

i love everything about the idea except the fact that we are getting rid of mccarthy

[Chisoxfn]

Put me down for Definitely wanting this deal to happen (though I know it never will).  To get Eric Chavez would be amazing.  I am a huge Joe Crede fan (unlike most of you), and I am excited by the thoughts of BMac in the rotation... but to add a guy like Chavez would be top notch.

 

A Left Handed Heart of the Order Hitter who is the best defensive 3rd baseman in the AL. 

 

Bring On This Trade!!!

I know its never gonna happen.

I fall in your lines. I no longer like Crede though, but I think we all know I'm probably fan numero uno of Bmac. The guys a stud, that being said, Chavez would give this lineup some serious punch while the rotation still would have its front 5. If someone went down than Kenny would have the task of acquiring another starter, but that could be done (the Sox have a lot of chips now).

 

Chavez is not only a stellar offensive 3rd baseman, but he's also a stellar defensive one and is just on the brink of entering his prime.

 

Now I would counter and do everything I could not to give up Bmac, whether it would mean Crede, Anderson, Tracey or Crede, Anderson, Tracey and Diaz.

 

I got a feeling Beane is going to want a bat (A's seem to have an assload of pitching prospects, although they could still take more pitching).

[aboz56]

This trade would be a no-brainer for us, but Oakland would never do it.

[JDsDirtySox]

All this talk reminds me of all of the Jeremy Reed lovers who were ready to end it all when he got dealt with Olivo for Freddy Garcia.

 

If there is a way to get Chavez do it.

[Balta1701]

Might be just fluff.  Who knows.  What happens if one of our starters goes down again?  Who do we rely on next?  Adkins? Diaz?  Munoz? :puke

This is just talk.  I don't think BMac's going anywhere.

 

Exactly - McCarthy right now is our insurance policy. We're only in first place this year because we have had 5 starting pitchers all year, and BMac is the guy who can make sure that fact never changes.

 

If this sort of trade happened, we wouldn't be trading away a prospect, we'd be trading away one of our key pieces for this year.

[KevHead0881]

I definitely wouldn't do the trade, simply because I believe BMac is the real deal. I think Chavez is a hell of a player, but ultimately, I'll take stud starter over stud 3rd baseman.

 

And I'm not the type that likes to hold on to our prospects at all costs. BMac's is just the rare player that I'd categorize as "untouchable".

[DukeNukeEm]

We've seen what BMac can do in tha majors... and were excited.

[CanOfCorn]

Maybe KW can call in a favor?

 

Hey Billy, remember that Billy Koch trade? How about Chavez for Crede straight up?

[Dick Allen]

All this talk reminds me of all of the Jeremy Reed lovers who were ready to end it all when he got dealt with Olivo for Freddy Garcia.

 

If there is a way to get Chavez do it.

 

One huge difference is BMac is a pitcher. The Sox have a few OF prospects, although I bet one day they will regret trading Reed. Good starters are very expensive. BMac will be pretty affordable for several years.

[DukeNukeEm]

Reed wouldnt really fit in our current OF.

 

Rowand and Pods are awesome, Dye is serviceable.

 

But when you really look at it.. we got Garcia who is a stud.

[Balta1701]

One huge difference is BMac is a pitcher. The Sox have a few OF prospects, although I bet one day they will regret trading Reed. Good starters are very expensive. BMac will be pretty affordable for several years.

 

Right now, the only way it looks like we'll regret trading Reed is if we also trade Anderson and Sweeney.

 

We've got Rowand under contract for a while and for cheap, we've got Pods for cheap, and we've got at least 2 more guys on the way. With that many outfielders, trading 1 of them for pitching seems like a smart move to me.

[Chisoxfn]

One huge difference is BMac is a pitcher. The Sox have a few OF prospects, although I bet one day they will regret trading Reed. Good starters are very expensive. BMac will be pretty affordable for several years.

Not with Anderson/Sweeney/Owens/Young down in the minors. I'll take the proven pitcher in Garcia anyday for Reed. Reed will be a good player, never a superstar.

 

Olivo is looking more and more like nothing. That was a tremendous deal for the Sox cause Freddy is a good pitcher.

 

Chavez for Crede and Bmac would be a good deal for us even if Bmac turned into a good pitcher. If Bmac busted or didn't live up to the hype it would be an unbelieavable deal for the Sox.

 

Chavez is a proven stud...Bmac a minor league stud. Now I think Bmac is going to flat dominate, but there is no guarantee of that. Now if I were making any offer, I'd be offering the entire rest of the farm system but Bmac, but if it came to Crede/Bmac/Filler for Chavez and maybe a little cash, I make that deal every single time.

 

Chavez is an all star and one of the best 3rd baseman in the game. I'd still hate and cringe at losing Bmac (he's been the best prospect to come up in a long long time).

 

That being said, I think if KW played tough enough he could put together a good enough package without giving up Mac. Plus I still think Oakland could use someone like Brian Anderson just as much as Bmac.

 

I do think the A's will dump Chavez though because they are in financial mode and don't want to pay his contract.

[Jabroni]

I think it would be extremely risky to trade B-Mac, considering El Duque's history of being unable to stay healthy (he's injured right now, go figure). If I was confident that El Duque could stay healthy for the rest of the season, I would consider this trade. But if we traded B-Mac and Crede for Chavez and El Duque got injured again, we would be f***ed.

[Balta1701]

Chavez for Crede and Bmac would be a good deal for us even if Bmac turned into a good pitcher.  If Bmac busted or didn't live up to the hype it would be an unbelieavable deal for the Sox.

 

 

You're right, it would be a good deal for us even if Bmac turned into a good pitcher. But I don't expect him to turn into a good pitcher. I expect him to turn into a great pitcher.

 

If he were to turn into a great pitcher, 35 starts a year, 15-20 wins per year, etc., then this would be a terrible deal for us.

[Chisoxfn]

I think it would be extremely risky to trade B-Mac, considering El Duque's history of being unable to stay healthy (he's injured right now, go figure).  If I was confident that El Duque could stay healthy for the rest of the season, I would consider this trade.  But if we traded B-Mac and Crede for Chavez and El Duque got injured again, we would be f***ed.

My thoughts are if you deal Bmac and Crede and it happens to be that the Sox need another starter, they could move some of their other prospects. They got a lot of chips.

 

Of course you could say the Sox would be mortgaging the future, but hey, if they are still leading the majors in wins and feel that this move puts them over the top, then you do it. It could backfire, but a team with Chavez at 3B as opposed to Crede is a much better team, especially when you factor in the main weakness of this club has been the offense (and Viz).

 

I'd rather give up Gio and Tracey or something along those lines. I think those two easily equal Bmac, especially with the Sox taking on Chavez contract. Still, after hearing some comments from KW in terms of being able to keep this team together it would surprise me to some extent if they acquired a guy with as long of a contract as Chavez had.

 

It would obviously spell the end to Konerko at the end of the season.

 

Regardless this team has prospects and not all of them will make it or become good players so there is no harm in hedging your bets and picking your fav's, holding onto them and using the rest to improve the major league team.

 

Every once in a while you trade a guy you shouldn't (luckily I can't really say the Sox made that mistake. Reed was by far the best player the Sox have given up in a trade under KW).

[Jabroni]

God, why does Cruddy have to suck sooo bad? If he was just decent, we wouldn't even have to be talking about this right now.

[Jabroni]

My thoughts are if you deal Bmac and Crede and it happens to be that the Sox need another starter, they could move some of their other prospects.  They got a lot of chips. 

 

Of course you could say the Sox would be mortgaging the future, but hey, if they are still leading the majors in wins and feel that this move puts them over the top, then you do it.  It could backfire, but a team with Chavez at 3B as opposed to Crede is a much better team, especially when you factor in the main weakness of this club has been the offense (and Viz). 

 

I'd rather give up Gio and Tracey or something along those lines.  I think those two easily equal Bmac, especially with the Sox taking on Chavez contract.  Still, after hearing some comments from KW in terms of being able to keep this team together it would surprise me to some extent if they acquired a guy with as long of a contract as Chavez had. 

 

It would obviously spell the end to Konerko at the end of the season. 

 

Regardless this team has prospects and not all of them will make it or become good players so there is no harm in hedging your bets and picking your fav's, holding onto them and using the rest to improve the major league team. 

 

Every once in a while you trade a guy you shouldn't (luckily I can't really say the Sox made that mistake.  Reed was by far the best player the Sox have given up in a trade under KW).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. We have seen what B-Mac can do at the major league level, albeit a very small sample size. I agree that it would be a lot better to trade younger minor leaguers that may never pan out and come back to bite us in the ass.

[Jabroni]

Mac, Jurko, and Harry are going to continue the Sox trade rumors about Chavez after this commercial break.

[Dick Allen]

Not with Anderson/Sweeney/Owens/Young down in the minors.  I'll take the proven pitcher in Garcia anyday for Reed.  Reed will be a good player, never a superstar. 

 

Olivo is looking more and more like nothing.  That was a tremendous deal for the Sox cause Freddy is a good pitcher. 

 

Chavez for Crede and Bmac would be a good deal for us even if Bmac turned into a good pitcher.  If Bmac busted or didn't live up to the hype it would be an unbelieavable deal for the Sox.

 

Chavez is a proven stud...Bmac a minor league stud.  Now I think Bmac is going to flat dominate, but there is no guarantee of that.  Now if I were making any offer, I'd be offering the entire rest of the farm system but Bmac, but if it came to Crede/Bmac/Filler for Chavez and maybe a little cash, I make that deal every single time.

 

Chavez is an all star and one of the best 3rd baseman in the game.  I'd still hate and cringe at losing Bmac (he's been the best prospect to come up in a long long time). 

 

That being said, I think if KW played tough enough he could put together a good enough package without giving up Mac.  Plus I still think Oakland could use someone like Brian Anderson just as much as Bmac.

 

I do think the A's will dump Chavez though because they are in financial mode and don't want to pay his contract.

 

I don't think trading a stud pitching prospect who can and is contributing now, and adding $8 million to the payroll is going to appeal to KW or JR. This was a rumor that someone called MJH with anyway. He claimed they were talking about it on sportsradio in the Bay Area. Its all BS. I really doubt BB has any intention of trading Chavez, and if he does, maybe that says he doesn't think Chavez's recent struggles are temporary.

[Chisoxfn]

You're right, it would be a good deal for us even if Bmac turned into a good pitcher.  But I don't expect him to turn into a good pitcher.  I expect him to turn into a great pitcher.

 

If he were to turn into a great pitcher, 35 starts a year, 15-20 wins per year, etc., then this would be a terrible deal for us.

I just think its too hard to go to that extent. Who would of figured Juan Cruz woudln't of turned into a stud or Edwin Jackson. So many things can happen that to predict and expect greatness and to turn down a deal because of that (when your getting a great player in return, who isn't just a stop gap solution) would be a mistake, imo.

 

I agree and am Bmac fan numero uno, but at the same time I woudln't pass up on a chance to help this club win now and Chavez is a player that would be around a long time. I'm saying the bust potential of this trdae would be low. Even if Bmac becomes a stud (possible) you will have 4 or 5 years with Chavez in his prime (maybe not as good as Bmac doing his thing and obviously more expensive, but its not like they get nothing).

 

If on the other hand Bmac is a #3 pitcher (probably just as possible as him becoming an ace) than this deal is a win for the Sox, especially when you factor in this team is playing for the World Series.

 

Of course we know my take, I'd move other prospects and just tell Beane Bmac ain't touchable. If your not interested than I'll be on the phone trying to acquire Huff and give them a package of anyone but Bmac.

 

Hell I'm the person that would let Bmac start from here on out (assuming he pitches like I feel he's capable of) and would just forget all about Duque and deal him for middle relief help at the deadline (i'm sure a team in the Wild Card looking for a starter, the Sox, and a 3rd team with a good reliever thats out of contention could work out a 3 way deal with the team that got Duque giving up the prospects and the Sox picking up a very good reliever).

 

There are a lot of options on the table. Right now if I were the GM I'd of identified two needs for this club. 3rd base and a replacement for Viz. I'd be on the phones from here on out figuring out what teams had players that fit the bill and would go from there. This period of identifiying players to fit woudl take some time and if those guys worked themselves out so be it, if they didn't, I'd be ready to strike when the iron is hot and add the necessary parts to give this club as good of a shot possible at winning the series. Luckily the Sox have the best record in baseball, so they have the ability to wait a little longer to identify needs than a team that is a few games back needing to pull the trigger immediately.

 

Regardless this is a good club, but to win the world series its got to improve in certain areas. The same can be said for every other team in baseball too.

[BuehrleTheAce]

I think these rumors may have some basis in truth. It's no secret that many in the Sox organization are fed up with the rollercoaster ride that Crede takes us all on every year. When he's good, he can be great, but when he's bad, he can really stink up the joint. Speculation on the availability of Chavez sounds just like something KW would do.

 

Oakland may have some good pitching prospects in the minors, but their bullpen is thin now. Do they risk bringing up bullpen filler and ruin the confidence of one of their future prospects? No, I think they try to go veteran filler. Which leads me to...

 

Crede and one or two of OUR bullpen fillers for Chavez. Names such as Vizcaino or Takatsu come immediately to mind. Oakland needs a proven closer, or at least veteran pitching out of the bullpen. Both would provide that much needed experience. We've got Marte, Politte, and Hermanson as our studs in setup and to close games. Cotts is spot relief, and we could then bring up Adkins to fill one of the bullpen vacancies.

 

Crede, Viz, and Shingo for Chavez? I'd do it in a heartbeat. If Oakland wanted a prospect too, then I want Huston Street thrown in.

Edited May 24, 2005 by BuehrleTheAce

[Guest JimH]

Personally I believe the White Sox are looking to add to their bullpen and possibly tweaking the bench situation, nothing more. But stranger things have happened.

[sircaffey]

Does anyone else recall that when KW was talking about Hudson/Mulder with Beane, that Beane wasn't interested in BMac? I thought I remembered that...

 

Anyways, Chavez is a complete stud. Gold Gloves galore and he's just entering his prime. He may be struggling but its not easy to be THE man on a very weak offense and an overall bad team. Not to mention hitting in OAK. Chavez could do mad things in our lineup and in the Cell.

 

Before the season, JR/KW repeated that there IS money to spend to pick up additional talent. With attendance up already this year, and the Sox possibly on the verge of breaking through, I really don't think $8 million more to the payroll is a stretch.

 

With all that said, if I were KW, I would do everything possible to keep BMac. If that meant giving up Anderson and Tracey then so be it. With Byrnes rumors rampid throughout the off season, I could really see Beane wanting either Sweeney or Anderson. Beane got his deals done for pitching prospects. To unload his best offensive player on a bad offensive team, you gotta think he'd be looking for mostly offense in return, no? Anderson might very well be his target.

 

I would LOVE Chavez...absolutely love him.

[Pauly8509CWS]

Timo for Chavez straight up.

[Dick Allen]

KW has emphasised pitching this year. Pitching, pitching, pitching. Plus the White Sox are a team with a budget. Chavez hasn't done much this year, but he does usually start off slow. Or maybe his performance has been "enhanced" in past years. I just don't see the rumor coming true.