NBA Draft Lottery

[ZoomSlowik]

There's one major difference in basketball though: the guys that prevent the other team from scoring have a minimal impact on the offensive end in other sports (some pitchers hit, field position/special teams). The vast majority of pitchers don't have to hit more than a couple of times a year, and the others only have to hit 4-5 times a week. And outside of Deion and a few others, defensive players don't have to step on the field to play offense. If your pitchers or defenders had to play on the other side of the field, things would be a little different. Say for instance a rule were enforced that all of your players have to both pitch and play the field in a given week. Who do you think would have a bigger impact, someone like Walter Johnson, who'd give you one or two dominant starts a week and little at the plate, or someone like Babe Ruth, who'd be an okay pitcher that hits the crap out of the ball every day of the week? I'd take the Babe, thank you. Even then, I'd take a dominant QB or RB over virtually any defensive players because they can have a much greater impact on the offensive side of the ball than any one particular defensive player on the other side. I might not take Stallworth over Greene, but Bradshaw or Harris might be another story. This is similar in basketball. Outside of the truly outstanding defensive players like the guys I mentioned, you need more than one standout to make a great defense. One dominant offensive player can have a huge impact on a team's offense, like Jordan, Shaq, and at least this year, Nash.

 

I'm not saying I'd build a team like the Mavs, because clearly that doesn't work. But stacking up on defensive specialists that can't score has the same effect. I'm just saying that you need balance. Someone like Chandler can be an important piece, but unless he develops at least some scoring prowess he's not the centerpiece of the team (I'd also like to stop seeing bench post players hit double figures against him). Brand wouldn't be my first choice, but he's the kind of guy you need to build around because great all-around players are hard to find. He can be a monster offensive player that hits the glass and at least holds his own on defense (our opinions differ slightly on his ability, but I digress). He's just never had a good supporting cast around him. The Spurs are a good example. I don't see anyone beating them this year because they have three very good all-around players in Duncan, Manu, and Parker and found guys that can provide what they need in a given game. Chandler strikes me as more of a Bruce Bowen right now than a Tim Duncan.

Edited May 31, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Seesox]

I dont know if I am sold on Bogut or not, but if I was Milwaukee I would take Marvin Williams or try to trade out of the spot..

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Who in their right mind would ever state that teams are built around one-dimensional role players?

[Kalapse]

I dont know if I am sold on Bogut or not, but if I was Milwaukee I would take Marvin Williams or try to trade out of the spot..

Welcome to Soxtalk.

[hammerhead johnson]

Who in their right mind would ever state that teams are built around one-dimensional role players?

 

God damn it, man. Can you read? I said that you build around defense, you start with defense. How can you even argue against something that is so obvious?

 

Sometimes, I feel like I'm speaking a foreign language on here.

 

You can build your team around Elton Brand while I grab a Top 10 paint defender (Chandler, Ratliff) and a Top 15 perimiter defender (Hassell, Bell) for less money than that one fantasy superstar who can only get it done for you consistently on the offensive side of the court. Then we'll both build from there and see where it gets us. You don't think that my team will take yours in a playoff series?

 

I can't talk to you, man.

[hammerhead johnson]

you need more than one standout to make a great defense.

 

I never said you didn't. Tyson Chandler can not cover 5 guys at the same time. If you're gonna start somewhere, start in the paint, of course.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

God damn it, man.  Can you read?  I said that you build around defense, you start with defense.  How can you even argue against something that is so obvious?

 

Sometimes, I feel like I'm speaking a foreign language on here. 

 

You can build your team around Elton Brand while I grab a Top 10 paint defender (Chandler, Ratliff) and a Top 15 perimiter defender (Hassell, Bell) for less money than that one fantasy superstar who can only get it done for you consistently on the offensive side of the court.  Then we'll both build from there and see where it gets us.  You don't think that my team will take yours in a playoff series?

 

I can't talk to you, man.

 

:headshake

[hammerhead johnson]

:headshake

 

That's the smartest, most insightful thing that you've said all week.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

That's the smartest, most insightful thing that you've said all week.

 

You're not even making sense anymore.

 

It's been downhill since your American dreams and bombs speech... :headshake

[hammerhead johnson]

You're not even making sense anymore.

 

It's been downhill since your American dreams and bombs speech...    :headshake

 

Sleepy, don't even try to pretend as though anything I have ever said made any sense to you in the first place.

Edited May 31, 2005 by hammerhead johnson

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Sleepy, don't even try to pretend as though anything I have ever said made any sense to you in the first place.

 

You do realize you come off as a stuck-up, egotistical asshole, right?

 

And no, your attempts at insulting my intelligence aren't the most clever...

[hammerhead johnson]

You do realize you come off as a stuck-up, egotistical asshole, right?

 

[SleepyWhiteSox]

 

 

Sad, really...

[hammerhead johnson]

   

 

Sad, really...

 

I never had you pegged for one who just agrees to disagree. You talk s*** too, so GMAFB. You come with more cheap shots than just about anyone on here, although not as many now that we don't have Bulls threads every day. Little subtle references here and there. You know what I'm saying.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I never had you pegged for one who just agrees to disagree.  You talk s*** too, so GMAFB.  You come with more cheap shots than just about anyone on here, although not as many now that we don't have Bulls threads every day.  Little subtle references here and there.  You know what I'm saying.

 

 

[hammerhead johnson]

 

Dude, find a new picture already. That's like the fourth time you've used that.

 

[DBAHO]

Back on track;

 

There's one deal that would seem to make a lot of sense for both teams, though we at the Journal-Constitution would never try to suggest how either team should work the draft. The Bobcats are desperate for either Marvin Williams or Chris Paul, neither of whom should be available at pick Nos. 5 or 13. With a move down, the Hawks could land a point guard, perhaps North Carolina's Raymond Felton at No. 5, and a solid big man at No. 13 --- say, 6-11 Connecticut talent Charlie Villanueva or Pitt's bruising 6-10, 260-pound Chris Taft. The Hawks need help in both of those areas, and getting Felton and Villanueva or Taft would provide them with an influx of talent, size and skill in two key areas.

 

Now, the potential glitch in that plan, which I'm sure Charlotte general manager Bernie Bickerstaff has already whipped up: Why would the Hawks pass up either of the two players the Bobcats covet? Williams is as talented a player as there is in this draft. He'd surely upgrade the roster of whatever team drafted him --- particularly the Hawks, who are in need of upgrades all over the place. And Paul has captured the attention of scouts and executives throughout the league because of his talent, skill and exquisite character (yes, they all saw that low blow he dropped on Julius Hodge).

[Palehosefan]

LMAO

exquisite character (yes, they all saw that low blow he dropped on Julius Hodge).

 

What an exquisite character, running around getting mad and punching people in the nuts. That wasn't the first episode with Paul on the court, and it definitely won't be the last, he has some major issues. If he has an exquisite character then Ruben Patterson is a charming individual.

[Seesox]

I do not agree with building your team around defense, I think you need to build around offense and then put together a defense.. So many people are caught up with defense when offense is truly what will get it done for you.. you just need to be able to play some solid defense and put points on the board.. anyways, I dont agree with building around defense..

[ZoomSlowik]

Last post on this topic- I swear...

 

I just said Brand wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd rather have him than Chandler. I wouldn't exactly call Chandler "consistent" on either end of the floor anyways. I'd rather have someone that gives me consistent production on one end or the other without being a huge liability on the other end. Guys like Chandler are the guys you add to the team later when you already have something built because guys that contribute in only one or two areas of the game are easier and cheaper to find than guys that can fill in across the board. I don't care how good your defense is, you're going to have to score around 90 a game to win consistently, and you're starting in a nice little hole in that department starting with Chandler/Ratliff and Hassell/Bell. After you get someone like Brand, you can add guys like Bowen and Dalembert and get closer to competing as opposed to struggling to score 80 with your defensive stoppers and looking for someone who can produce that won't compromise the D. It's a little harder to try it the other way around. I'd much rather start with my scorers because it's difficult to find someone that fills that role without killing you on the other end. If I really had my choice of players in the entire league, I'd take a guy that can do both rather well, like Duncan or Garnett. Then I have a lot more flexibility in the type of player I can add at the other positions. If I add someone like Dalembert, I can afford to take a more suspect defender that will help my offense like Nash, or if I add someone like Ray Allen I can take someone that struggles to score like Chandler. Or I can make things much easier and get someone like Artest who gives me both, making a solid foundation for the team (as long as I can find a way to keep him in check. In the end, who cares, I'm just using examples). There are numerous important facets to making a successful team, defense is only one of them, just like scoring. Just like you need to be able to protect the paint and pressure the ballhandler, a good team will have someone that can score consistently inside and someone that can hit the open shot, and having guys that can create their own shot help greatly in that area. You also need to handle the ball, find the open man, rebound on offense and defense, and be able to get a stop or a score in the clutch. I'd much rather take a guy that can help me in 4 or 5 of these areas than 2 or 3. I know you have a bit of a hard on for the defensive specialists, but there are many other facets to the game. Ben Wallace and Taysaun Prince are nice players, but Detroit wouldn't be there without guys that can create their shots like Hamilton and Billups, and vice versa. The really good teams can do it all. You take you stoppers and see what happens if you can't find a scorer, I'll take the scorer and try some role players to provide the D. It's a little easier to start over if it doesn't work my way than the other way around.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Last post on this topic- I swear...

 

I just said Brand wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd rather have him than Chandler. I wouldn't exactly call Chandler "consistent" on either end of the floor anyways. I'd rather have someone that gives me consistent production on one end or the other without being a huge liability on the other end. Guys like Chandler are the guys you add to the team later when you already have something built because guys that contribute in only one or two areas of the game are easier and cheaper to find than guys that can fill in across the board. I don't care how good your defense is, you're going to have to score around 90 a game to win consistently, and you're starting in a nice little hole in that department starting with Chandler/Ratliff and Hassell/Bell. After you get someone like Brand, you can add guys like Bowen and Dalembert and get closer to competing as opposed to struggling to score 80 with your defensive stoppers and looking for someone who can produce that won't compromise the D. It's a little harder to try it the other way around. I'd much rather start with my scorers because it's difficult to find someone that fills that role without killing you on the other end. If I really had my choice of players in the entire league, I'd take a guy that can do both rather well, like Duncan or Garnett. Then I have a lot more flexibility in the type of player I can add at the other positions. If I add someone like Dalembert, I can afford to take a more suspect defender that will help my offense like Nash, or if I add someone like Ray Allen I can take someone that struggles to score like Chandler. Or I can make things much easier and get someone like Artest who gives me both, making a solid foundation for the team (as long as I can find a way to keep him in check. In the end, who cares, I'm just using examples). There are numerous important facets to making a successful team, defense is only one of them, just like scoring. Just like you need to be able to protect the paint and pressure the ballhandler, a good team will have someone that can score consistently inside and someone that can hit the open shot, and having guys that can create their own shot help greatly in that area. You also need to handle the ball, find the open man, rebound on offense and defense, and be able to get a stop or a score in the clutch. I'd much rather take a guy that can help me in 4 or 5 of these areas than 2 or 3. I know you have a bit of a hard on for the defensive specialists, but there are many other facets to the game. Ben Wallace and Taysaun Prince are nice players, but Detroit wouldn't be there without guys that can create their shots like Hamilton and Billups, and vice versa. The really good teams can do it all. You take you stoppers and see what happens if you can't find a scorer, I'll take the scorer and try some role players to provide the D. It's a little easier to start over if it doesn't work my way than the other way around.

 

[nitetrain8601]

LMAO

 

What an exquisite character, running around getting mad and punching people in the nuts. That wasn't the first episode with Paul on the court, and it definitely won't be the last, he has some major issues. If he has an exquisite character then Ruben Patterson is a charming individual.

 

I haven't heard of his other run ins. I'm pretty sure that was his only run in in his basketball career. There isn't character issues there. Trust me.

[Palehosefan]

lol, I watch 80% of the ACC basketball games during the year and probably 90% of WF's games that are on TV, I think I know what kind of character he is, trust me.

 

Here are some quotes about him.

"He punched me in the groin and the ref saw it," Hodge said, adding that Paul told him after the blow, "I got you now."

 

"The ultra-competitive 6-footer has been in numerous on-court tussles this season -some due to his persistent defensive pressure, others stemming from opponents' efforts to irritate him with physical play."

 

Chris has always taken cheap shots in games and whined to the refs more than any other player in the ACC. Teams do go over the line talking about his grandfathers death, but he has to learn to control his temper better because guys like Gary Payton will eat him up with it.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Palehosefan

[nitetrain8601]

lol, I watch 80% of the ACC basketball games during the year and probably 90% of WF's games that are on TV, I think I know what kind of character he is, trust me.

 

Here are some quotes about him.

"He punched me in the groin and the ref saw it," Hodge said, adding that Paul told him after the blow, "I got you now."

 

"The ultra-competitive 6-footer has been in numerous on-court tussles this season -some due to his persistent defensive pressure, others stemming from opponents' efforts to irritate him with physical play."

 

Chris has always taken cheap shots in games and whined to the refs more than any other player in the ACC. Teams do go over the line talking about his grandfathers death, but he has to learn to control his temper better because guys like Gary Payton will eat him up with it.

 

That's different though. The ACC and it's fan are more rabid than NBA fans. Seriously, JJ Reddick getting death threats. Chris Paul having fans chanting "I Killed Your Grandfather" That's f'd up. I think I would be a just a little irritated at that.

[Palehosefan]

Its not just ACC fans that are that way, and I really don't think its just college fans either. Paul will also have to deal with players trash talking that know his hot-button so to speak that know it takes him off his game if they do a little trash talking. I'm quite sure it was Julius Hodge trash talking Paul that caused his reaction, but Hudge trash talked everyone, including Rashad McCants who would just laugh at him and light him up. Its not taunts that cause Paul's reaction to make me question his character. Its his constant cheap shots on other players in the ACC and relentless complaining to the ref's about everything. There was an article on ESPN.com about his cheap shots, but for the life of me I can't find it now.