BMac might stay with Sox

[Wedge]

On the subject of BMac I thought about this again & I don't see how the WSox can avoid burning a year of service on him.  He's good for at least 3 more starts with El Duque on the DL but this is just El Duque's first stint on the DL.  The odds are there will be at least one maybe two more.  We knew going in to that deal that we'd be lucky to see 20 starts out of him.  As long as he's healthy going into Oct it be worth it.

So burning a yr of service for BMac is not an issue.  It's a question of whether to keep him on the team for relief duties or send him to Charlotte for starts.  Options don't play a role either because the WSox add him to the 25 man roster on each call-up.  So there's really no addition cost in shuffling him between Charlotte & Chicago for starts.  I think that's the better way to go.  Charlotte needs him as much as we do.  The more AAA starts he gets the better he'll do up here.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. It seems like we'll probably see McCarthy make between 6-10 starts in MLB this season, so shuffling him would make the most sense.

[bjm676]

IMO, I think that El Duque will be restricted to shorter outings (maybe 5, 6 innings.) Then BMac can take over after him. That way he pitches every fifth day.

[TaylorStSox]

The question is, could BMac throw better than some guys in the bullpen, ala Walker, cotts, Vizcaino and even Shingo? Probably yes.

 

 

The question isn't whether McCarthy can succeed in the pen. He can. The question is what the best thing for his development is. He moved to AAA and struggled with the long ball. He had a 4.72 ERA down there. Obviously, there's things to work on. His change, while having a great motion, tends to stay up in the zone. His curve, at times a snap dragon, has the tendancy to hang. He gave up 9 long balls in 8 AAA starts. He needs to work on consistancy with the hook and keeping the change down.

 

His development will be hindered by pitching sporadically in the majors. We can use him every now and then and it may hurt him. Or, we can have him pitch every 5th day and continue to develop.

 

What if he gets hammered while pitching in Coors east off a good hitting MLB team? They'll dominate if he makes the same mistakes he made in AAA.

 

The win now attitude is fine and all. But, not if it's at the expense of a 21 year old kid who might be a CHEAP top of the rotation starter for the next 5 years.

 

No thanks. Cotts is doing fine.

[nitetrain8601]

The question isn't whether McCarthy can succeed in the pen. He can. The question is what the best thing for his development is. He moved to AAA and struggled with the long ball. He had a 4.72 ERA down there. Obviously, there's things to work on. His change, while having a great motion, tends to stay up in the zone. His curve, at times a snap dragon, has the tendancy to hang. He gave up 9 long balls in 8 AAA starts. He needs to work on consistancy with the hook and keeping the change down.

 

His development will be hindered by pitching sporadically in the majors. We can use him every now and then and it may hurt him. Or, we can have him pitch every 5th day and continue to develop.

 

What if he gets hammered while pitching in Coors east off a good hitting MLB team? They'll dominate if he makes the same mistakes he made in AAA.

 

The win now attitude is fine and all. But, not if it's at the expense of a 21 year old kid who might be a CHEAP top of the rotation starter for the next 5 years.

 

No thanks. Cotts is doing fine.

 

[beck72]

The question isn't whether McCarthy can succeed in the pen. He can. The question is what the best thing for his development is. He moved to AAA and struggled with the long ball. He had a 4.72 ERA down there. Obviously, there's things to work on. His change, while having a great motion, tends to stay up in the zone. His curve, at times a snap dragon, has the tendancy to hang. He gave up 9 long balls in 8 AAA starts. He needs to work on consistancy with the hook and keeping the change down.

 

His development will be hindered by pitching sporadically in the majors. We can use him every now and then and it may hurt him. Or, we can have him pitch every 5th day and continue to develop.

 

What if he gets hammered while pitching in Coors east off a good hitting MLB team? They'll dominate if he makes the same mistakes he made in AAA.

 

The win now attitude is fine and all. But, not if it's at the expense of a 21 year old kid who might be a CHEAP top of the rotation starter for the next 5 years.

 

No thanks. Cotts is doing fine.

 

We'll see. But if the Sox see BMac as someone who can help them win games from the bullpen [which seems to be the case], his "development" [whatever that means, because each pitcher is different] can wait. I think BMac is far more "developed" than most AAA pitchers, let alone 21 yr olds, [ie, more polished, knows how to pitch not just throw, attacks hitters and the zone, etc.]

 

But seeing how Ozzie wanted Cotts and Adkins last year in the pen [both starters], and got him [and did far better than most people thought they would] chances are BMac will stick

[GoodAsGould]

I keep repeating myself it seems, So Ill say it again... When Buehrle and Garland were brought up both started in the bullpen, now they are our best 2 starters in so far the best rotation in the AL.... So you think B-Mac cant do the same? He might pitch less but you can learn so much more just being on a major league sometimes than pitching in AAA.

[beck72]

I keep repeating myself it seems, So Ill say it again... When Buehrle and Garland were brought up both started in the bullpen, now they are our best 2 starters in so far the best rotation in the AL.... So you think B-Mac cant do the same?  He might pitch less but you can learn so much more just being on a major league sometimes than pitching in AAA.

 

The thought pattern and track records of KW and Ozzie would seem to suggest BMac sticking in the bullpen.

[beck72]

He might pitch less but you can learn so much more just being on a major league sometimes than pitching in AAA.

 

"being on a major league team". But well said. If Bmac doesn't have much to learn in the minors, he'll learn the rest being in the majors, even in the bullpen

[nitetrain8601]

Thing is BMac has yet to dominate the minors like Garland did. Or even Buehrle. And when they were brought up, they were in the system for at least 1&1/2 to two years. BMac still has to work on keeping the ball down first and foremost.

[Nokona]

Thing is BMac has yet to dominate the minors

 

Minor League Strikeout Leader? Sick W-L Record? Nice ERA?

[nitetrain8601]

Minor League Strikeout Leader? Sick W-L Record?  Nice ERA?

 

Strikeout leader? Yes. His ERA is 4.51 in the minors I believe. May be higher than that. His win loss is 3-5 I believe.

[southsider2k5]

Strikeout leader? Yes. His ERA is 4.51 in the minors I believe. May be higher than that. His win loss is 3-5 I believe.

 

Look at his minor league stats again.

 

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/brandon_mccarthy.shtml

[chimpy2121]

ehh, wrong thread my bad...but I think itd be good for Bmac to stay with the club for a while. Like an earlier poster said, Buehrle was in the same situation a couple years ago.

Edited May 26, 2005 by chimpy2121

[qwerty]

Thing is BMac has yet to dominate the minors like Garland did. Or even Buehrle. And when they were brought up, they were in the system for at least 1&1/2 to two years. BMac still has to work on keeping the ball down first and foremost.

 

Garland = 3.55 era in the minors.

 

Buehrle = 3.11 era in the minors.

 

Mccarthy = 3.20 era in the minors.

 

Mccarthy has already had over 130 innings more in the minors than buehrle ever had and he has also had some experience in triple a ( granted very limited) but buehrle had none.

[nitetrain8601]

http://minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/st...milb&pid=435221

 

McCarthy a 4.32 ERA and 3-4 for Charlotte. And Garland at least dealed in his last year in the minors.

 

Look at what Garland did in his last two years in the minors. Especially his last year. He figured out the minor league game. It was time to bring him up.

[YASNY]

I look at it this way. I believe the Sox braintrust knows about their individual players than I do. If they believe the best thing forthe Sox and McCarthy is 2/3 of a season in a major league bullpen with the occasional spot start, then I'll go along with that. If the believe that he should start every 5th day, somewhere, I'll go along with that too.

 

I certainly don't get off on my own "expert opinion" and think I'm smarter than the professionals who've been in the game, surrounded by other professionals, almost their entire lives. I know there are some misguided individuals here that believe they are smarter than the pros, (one particular self proclaimed genious comes to mind) but I'm not one of them.

[Steff]

The thought pattern and track records of KW and Ozzie would seem to suggest BMac sticking in the bullpen.

 

 

 

QUOTE

Guillen is hesitant to put rookie Brandon McCarthy in the bullpen once Hernandez is activated because of the lack of innings provided for the Sox's long relievers and the need to keep McCarthy as a starter. "I think this kid has to go back to the minor leagues and keep throwing," Guillen said.

 

 

 

Curious to know what "pattern" and "track record" your referring to as well..

[DBAHO]

QUOTE

Guillen is hesitant to put rookie Brandon McCarthy in the bullpen once Hernandez is activated because of the lack of innings provided for the Sox's long relievers and the need to keep McCarthy as a starter. "I think this kid has to go back to the minor leagues and keep throwing," Guillen said.

Curious to know what "pattern" and "track record" your referring to as well..

Neal Cotts maybe? Mark Buerhle?

[Steff]

Neal Cotts maybe? Mark Buerhle?

 

 

 

Ozzie had nothing to do with Mark's journey.. and I wouldn't quite call Neal a success story just yet.

 

Anything else..?

[Chisoxrd5]

:That quote from Ozzie is music to my ears...

 

4 of our 5 starters (Mark, Garland, Freddy and the Count) have all been consistently goin 7 innings almost every time out. With them all pitching that well there is no room for a long reliever with the talent that BMac has to sit and rot on the bench.

 

Well I'm officially a mang for the rest of the day

[DBAHO]

Ozzie had nothing to do with Mark's journey.. and I wouldn't quite call Neal a success story just yet.

 

Anything else..?

Jon Adkins perhaps (even though he hasn't been that successful either). Arnie Munoz? But the Sox have shown they will take starters from the minors that long - term probably won't make it as starters in the big leagues, and put them in the bullpen instead.

[Steff]

Jon Adkins perhaps (even though he hasn't been that successful either). Arnie Munoz? But the Sox have shown they will take starters from the minors that long - term probably won't make it as starters in the big leagues, and put them in the bullpen instead.

 

 

In the past there's been a need to do so, and that's a stretch of an explination at best - and a "pattern" is hardly what I would call throwing s*** at the wall and hoping it sticks . There's no reason Brandon should be in the pen. None what-so-ever. To put him there would be complete stupidity.

[Chisoxrd5]

Jon Adkins perhaps (even though he hasn't been that successful either). Arnie Munoz? But the Sox have shown they will take starters from the minors that long - term probably won't make it as starters in the big leagues, and put them in the bullpen instead.

 

Sure, if your BAD as a starter you relegate the person to the bullpen...All these related incidents, I dont see as comparisons at all.

 

Mark Buerhle was put into the bullpen when he first came up because there was a need for lefty reliever, same with Cottsy. Brandon really isn't needed to be a long reliever, If we have a glaring need for one bring up Jon Adkins or Robert Person. Its not like your long reliever has to be good anyways...

[DBAHO]

Sure, if your BAD as a starter you relegate the person to the bullpen...All these related incidents, I dont see as comparisons at all.

 

Mark Buerhle was put into the bullpen when he first came up because there was a need for lefty reliever, same with Cottsy. Brandon really isn't needed to be a long reliever, If we have a glaring need for one bring up Jon Adkins or Robert Person. Its not like your long reliever has to be good anyways...

That is my point of view. Of course right now there will be so much pressure on KW to keep B-Mac up with the big club after his 1st performance. But it was not like he was PERFECT down at Charlotte.

 

Give him consistent innings down there, let him cut down on the home runs he has given up, and let him work on some things. But I don't think that's going to happen.

[Steff]

Give him consistent innings down there, let him cut down on the home runs he has given up, and let him work on some things. But I don't think that's going to happen.

 

 

 

You don't think he's going back down...??

 

 

How much...