Devil Rays vs As

[sox-r-us]

Carl Crawford already half way through a cycle with the difficult ones done in the 1st freaking inning (3B and HR out of the way)

 

After 2 innings:

 

Tampa Bay 12

As 0

 

Blanton sucks.....Billy "Anyone can win with 3 20 game winner"s Beane is a freaking genius

[Benchwarmerjim]

The A's are so abd this year. They and KC should compete for last place and or extinction

[CWSGuy406]

Oakland will take it's lumps this year, but they've still got a pretty good group of talent for the upcoming years in Meyer, Haren, Harden, Blanton, Street, Chavez, and Swish...

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 25, 2005 -> 07:38 PM)

Oakland will take it's lumps this year, but they've still got a pretty good group of talent for the upcoming years in Meyer, Haren, Harden, Blanton, Street, Chavez, and Swish...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought Oakland was going to compete for the division title this year. :rolly

[DonkeyKongerko]

I started Blanton tonight for some reason.

 

I think I just felt like losing a week.

[CWSGuy406]

I thought Oakland was going to compete for the division title this year.  :rolly

 

I don't think they'll be cellar-dwellars the whole year, but I've certainly been dead wrong in my prediction of them competing for the division this year.

 

That said, it's easy to kick a guy when he's down. Jason Kendall is hitting .233, Eric Chavez is hitting .224, and a couple of their key parts have been DL'ed (Swish and Dotel and Crosby). I'm not saying I expect them to win their next twenty and take over the division, but they certainly haven't "clicked" at all this year.

Edited May 26, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[Flash Tizzle]

That said, it's easy to kick a guy when he's down.  Jason Kendall is hitting .233, Eric Chavez is hitting .224, and a couple of their key parts have been DL'ed (Swish and Dotel and Crosby).  I'm not saying I expect them to win their next twenty and take over the division, but they certainly haven't "clicked" at all this year.

 

You're absolutely right-- it's easy (and quite fun) to kick Oakland while they're down.

 

Witnessing Fats*** Blanton disgracing the Oakland organization was tremendous. My MLB Extra package covers its outlandish costs whenever I witness another Oakland meltdown.

 

Interesting article printed last week: http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/s.../blog/05_17_05/

Edited May 26, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[CWSGuy406]

You're absolutely right-- it's easy (and quite fun) to kick Oakland while they're down. 

 

Witnessing Fats*** Blanton disgracing the Oakland organization was tremendous. My MLB Extra package covers its outlandish costs whenever I witness another Oakland meltdown.

 

Interesting article printed last week: http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/s.../blog/05_17_05/

 

That article is pathetic. He's judging a team after two months into the season, and trades after two months.

 

And funny, he rips Bill James -- yet his hometown team hired him in making personel decisions.

 

Dumbass author...

[Jabroni]

I thought Oakland was going to compete for the division title this year.  :rolly

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, that's the funniest thing. All of the Beane supporters said that the A's would win THIS YEAR. Now they say, "Oh, but wait for next year!" Trading your two best pitchers is never going to get a team a winning season.

[CWSGuy406]

Yep, that's the funniest thing.  All of the Beane supporters said that the A's would win THIS YEAR.  Now they say, "Oh, but wait for next year!"  Trading your two best pitchers is never going to get a team a winning season.

 

He wasn't going to be able to resign either of them...

[WilliamTell]

lol I love seeing the Devil Rays put up a 10 spot in the first inning. Also having their first 8 batters reach.

[ZoomSlowik]

He wasn't going to be able to resign either of them...

 

He didn't really have to worry about resigning them yet. He could have easily kept both of them and taken another shot at the division. As badly as they have played, they'd be in much better shape with those two still on the team. But he decided that he had to break up the team now and try to rebuild it. Even if he dealt Hudson, he could have kept Mulder. If it didn't work, the packages he could get for those pitchers near the trade deadline wouldn't be that different than the ones he got. I said it at the time, I didn't get trading Mulder. If they kept him, you'd still have gotten some prospects out of it and still had a pretty impressive top 3 in Mulder, Zito, and Harden, with a top prospect coming up in Blanton, and either Meyer or Haren depending on which deal he took. Did he really need that extra pitching prospect badly enough to basically tank this season? I don't see how. His baseball decisions have been questionable in the past outside of fleecing us on the Foulke deal, and it's finally showing now that two of his aces are gone.

[YASNY]

He didn't really have to worry about resigning them yet. He could have easily kept both of them and taken another shot at the division. As badly as they have played, they'd be in much better shape with those two still on the team. But he decided that he had to break up the team now and try to rebuild it. Even if he dealt Hudson, he could have kept Mulder. If it didn't work, the packages he could get for those pitchers near the trade deadline wouldn't be that different than the ones he got. I said it at the time, I didn't get trading Mulder. If they kept him, you'd still have gotten some prospects out of it and still had a pretty impressive top 3 in Mulder, Zito, and Harden, with a top prospect coming up in Blanton, and either Meyer or Haren depending on which deal he took. Did he really need that extra pitching prospect badly enough to basically tank this season? I don't see how. His baseball decisions have been questionable in the past outside of fleecing us on the Foulke deal, and it's finally showing now that two of his aces are gone.

 

I would venture to guess that Beane knew he was going to trade Hudson and Mulder before the season was out, because he could not afford to let that kind of pitching talent just walk away. So, trading them in the offseason prevented him from being put in a position to make a white-flag type trade. The Sox still haven't lived that one down.

[CWSGuy406]

Zoom, yes, he could have taken one more shot. But even then, he still wouldn't have been able to resign them, win or lose.

 

He wanted to secure a good rotation for the next five-six years, and he's done that. Is it showing? No, but two months a season doesn't make. I personally think the Hudson deal is was a little weak, but I think they got a fair package for Mulder -- Haren and Barton, along with Calero.

 

I'd type more but I got finals today.

[Flash Tizzle]

Zoom, yes, he could have taken one more shot.  But even then, he still wouldn't have been able to resign them, win or lose.

 

Object of baseball is to win championships, not secure starting rotations in 2010. Mulder/Hudson are, right now, where Beane is (likely) projecting Haren/Blanton to peak several seasons from now. But Mulder/Hudson have already established themselves as outstanding pitchers. Nothing is guaranteed with Haren/Blanton, regardless of meaningless projections.

 

He wanted to secure a good rotation for the next five-six years, and he's done that.  Is it showing?  No, but two months a season doesn't make.  I personally think the Hudson deal is was a little weak, but I think they got a fair package for Mulder -- Haren and Barton, along with Calero.

 

Why not take one more shot with two pitchers with proven success in the major leagues instead of waiting half a decade for prospects to blossum? It's such a ridiculously simple concept. I guarantee Oakland fans would tolerate Mulder/Hudson leaving without significant compensation if it brought them a champsionship.

 

-Worst Case Scenario #1: Oakland reaches the playoffs, loses (again), and Beane fails to receive compensation for Hudson.

 

While their postseason choking is inevitable, it's difficult to be in this position without 2/3 of the "Big Three.". Funny how countless publications installed faith in Beane to produce a winning product this year. I'll have fun at the end of this season bumping threads I saved-- namely Skip Bayless' slurpfest of Beane.

 

Beane is in a win-win situation. If Oakland were to exceed expectations; playoff appearance or 85+ win season, Beane's genius label is reestablished. Oakland falters, it's "Well, injuries and inexperience effected this team. Although their 2007 World Series Championship is still guaranteed."

 

-Worst Case Scenario #2: Mulder and Hudson are injured simulateneously; thus receiving no interest from competing clubs.

 

Apparently, expecting return product from your aces exceeds the needs of winning in 2005. That's fine. I'm having fun watching Oakland lose and their fans moaning and crying.

[CWSGuy406]

Flash, maybe he felt that they weren't in a position to go for the title, even with Mulder and Huddy. Or, since such weak starting pitchers were getting huge bucks this offseason, maybe he felt he could get a real nice return (which, neither of us can judge it yet).

 

Did Beane do a good job this offseason? I don't know, no one will know until we see how the main chips in the deal like Haren/Meyer, and Barton pan out. But, considering the last time that the Athletics won under 87 games was '98, and they haven't been below 90 wins since '99, I'll give him the benefit of a doubt. If he proves to be incompetent over the next few years, without the Big 3, then he won't get that benefit -- from me, at least.

[ZoomSlowik]

The point is did he really get prospect packages that were any better than what he could have had at the All-star break? I'm not so sure, especially since neither Haren or Meyer were ranked as top 50 prospects when I checked after the trade. He could have hung on to Hudson and seen what happened. If the team was weak, he could still trade him at the deadline. Atlanta and St. Louis would still need an ace pitcher, so I don't see where that package would have gone. Doing this with Mulder would have made even more sense because he still had a full season left on his contract. You could have traded him NEXT offseason just as easily. Instead you're stuck with Zito, who I can't imagine you can get anything for, Harden is on the DL (although he's a stud), and the three prospects at the back of rotation are getting let up. His team this year didn't have to look anywhere near this disastrous. He's going to look like a real ass if Meyer and or Haren don't pan out, which is highly possible. He hasn't secured anything with these trade and managed to tank this year's club. None of these guys were Mark Prior type prospects, so I don't see how he did so much good for the team in getting them. If these guys were so certain to make an impact and so close to being there, they wouldn't have traded them. Harden looks like the only ace pitcher that he's still got. If anything he should have traded Zito while he had a chance a couple of year ago. He's nowhere near the pitcher he used to be. He's basically got a team full of Juan Cruz's right now. All of them are getting seriously rocked (Meyer doing it at AAA) and only Haren has a good strikeout rate. Even Cruz and Calero are getting rocked, and those guys were supposed to be solid setup men. These guys need to get better fast or he's really going to eat some crow.

Edited May 26, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[witesoxfan]

I thought Oakland was going to compete for the division title this year.  :rolly

 

The season is still young, of course, and while the A's are in last place, they are back 8.5 games. While 8.5 games is not a small amount of games by any stretch of the imagination, it is a smaller number to come back from then the 7.5 games the Twins came back from at the ASB in 03, with us down 7 games, of the Royals...the Royals were barely above .500 at the end of the year, while both the Sox and Twins made huge comebacks and overtook the Royals. To suggest that this same thing could not happen - to see an underachieving team finally get 'it' down the stretch, get hot, and end up playing .700 ball is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

Sometimes, all it takes is 1 move. In the A's case, with as bad as the pitching staff has been, and as bad as the offense has been, it will take more than 1 move. However, they are very, very, very lucky that they are only 11 games under .500, which is quite sad to actually say, because if you are lucky to be 11 games under, you are really bad.

 

Note that I am not saying that Beane is a genius, and he can do no wrong with this post. However, the one thing I liked about trading Hudson and Mulder is that it took some serious nuts to make the move. There are 29 other GMs in baseball that, in the same situation, would have kept atleast 1 of them. Ballsy of course does not always equate to genius or even smart, but that is something I did like.

 

The season is looking not so good for them right now, but as CWS mentioned, they are looking good for the future. They have all kinds of pieces in place, including Blanton, Haren, Meyer, and Harden for the future of the pitching staff. With Harden already looking pretty good at the MLB level, with the exception of this DL stint, they are asking for 1 of those 3 to step up and be an ace in the future to have atleast a 1-2 combo, and if 2 of the 3 can, they are right back at square 1, with Hawk continuing to say "Any GM will look like a genius with 3 aces."

 

That is all