JUGGERNAUT Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 The rumor pages today feature Kaz Matsui & the willingness of the NYM to eat a good portion of his salary to trade him. They are very happy with the play of Cairo. He has not played SS this yr but he played a 110 gms as a SS in 2004. With Wright playing well at 3B, they have no use for Crede so this would probably shape up as a 3 team trade where Crede is used to get a player the NYM want from another team. The trade makes sense for the WSox if they can pull it off: Uribe - 3B, Kaz - SS, Iguchi - 2B. Your most skilled positions locked up for 2-3 yrs. Playing with Iguchi could be exactly what Kaz needs. If they are successful together it could mean many more tickets sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Juggs you're way out on a limb here. No way the Sox have an interest, he's been major underachieving since he got to the U.S. and no chance the Sox would shift Uribe to make room for a guy like him at SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 So you're trying to replace .229/.286/.357and great defense with .243/.283/.338 and questionable at best defense? Plus give up prospects/players in the process? Makes sense.... Sign me up. For whatever you're smokin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 If anybody comes to the Sox i hope it's Polanco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 30, 2005 Author Share Posted May 30, 2005 I think you're selling Kaz too short on what the WSox are getting & too much on what the WSox would have to give up to get him. I think Crede in a 3-way would get enough to get Kaz. Uribe has proven himself at both SS, & 3B. Crede's best value to the team is D & HR's. Uribe is an improvement over his D & Kaz makes up for his HR's. I won't say their aren't question marks behind Kaz's D. But that's not the way he played in Japan & playing with Iguchi could greatly improve that. This is a trade based more on potential than results to date. But I think if we could get Kaz at the expense of only Crede we should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Problem is Kaz Sucks. We wamt to get rid of sucky crede so you ain't gonna bring in SUcky Kaz. Just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 30, 2005 Author Share Posted May 30, 2005 Mike Cameron's name surfaced as well. He's rumored to go SD, but he would mean so much more to the WSox right now. You're going to pay the highest price imaginable to get him right now. 83AB .373A .475O .699S 1.174OPS. He's having a career year. He's platooning with Diaz right now who's having a good yr himself. So the WSox are more likely to have to use Dye in a 3-way to get some talent the NYM will want. But nothingless than Anderson will land this deal. Don't expect the NYM to pick up any of Cameron's salary either. I think it goes without saying he'll want to play CF. It goes w/out saying that an OF of Pods, Cameron, & Rowand will be the best D in MLB. Not even the Twins with Hunter could match up against us. That might mean more to a team built on pitching & defense than even a new addition to the bullpen. What is for certain is that the WSox can not simply sit back & let the Twins overtake them like they have in years past. They need to make a move to either make the team stingier or more lethal or both. Cameron would do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 I do not want overpriced players from the NY Mets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 I think there are better options out there than matsui, and we'd only have to give a prospect or two more. I think Juggs is right in the situation the trade would bring, but I would look into other availablities than the Kaz one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirScott Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Cameron is so inconsistent, I would just love/hate to have this guy on the White Sox, depending on what streak he's on. didn't he have a 3 or 4 home run game against us 3 years ago? as for Kaz, he's a bust and I wouldn't want this team to take the chance on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2005 -> 04:17 PM) Cameron is so inconsistent, I would just love/hate to have this guy on the White Sox, depending on what streak he's on. didn't he have a 3 or 4 home run game against us 3 years ago? as for Kaz, he's a bust and I wouldn't want this team to take the chance on him. It was 4 homers, and I'm pretty sure that Jim Parque started that game in a comeback type thing. Clearly, it didn't work out. As much as I hate Crede, and I truly do, I don't want to have Kaz Matsui. I know Juggernaut is a smart guy and often knows what he's talking about, but this trade is no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_LEE45 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 id rather go after Furcal he is a FA next year i believe and he would fit Ozzie style ball but i say no to kaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Kaz's defense sucks, his contract sucks, well, Kaz just sucks period. I don't know why anyone would ever suggest this. Worst... idea... EVAR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 No way to this, Matsui is horrible. End of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 QUOTE(C_LEE45 @ May 30, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) id rather go after Furcal he is a FA next year i believe and he would fit Ozzie style ball but i say no to kaz Prepare to pay at least 8 mil a season. Don't see that happening from the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 No way to this, Matsui is horrible. End of discussion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Juggernaut must have missed how many errors Kaz had at SS last season. He can barely play 2nd base. The guy is a butcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 I bet Matsui could bunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 As you know I will never make a trade suggestion w/out backing it up with stats & facts to support it. Either they are. There is approx $10M left on Kaz $21M/3yr deal. The Mets are willing to pick up more than 1/2 of it so you are looking at a yr & half of Kaz for about $4M. He's a SH & his numbers are not as bad as some think. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...tting&year=2004 2004 vLH 98AB, 13R, 8D, 3HR, 11RBI, 11W, .306A, .376O, .480S 2004 vRH 362AB, 52R, 24D, 2T, 4HR, 33RBI, 29W, 14 SB, .262A, .319O, .373S On this team RON numbers are the most important. That's why Perez is still on this team. 2004 RON 60R, 39RBI, .299A, .358O, .408S So far in 2005 he's struggled vs RH but still hitting LH w authority. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...tting&year=2005 2005 RON 15R, 16RBI, .281A, .306O, .404S 2005 CL&L 5R, 3RBI, .286A, .375O, .500S He's a better SS than he is a 2B. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=7250 He's an improvement in the lineup over Crede, & I believe Uribe-Kaz-Iguchi is stronger D than Crede-Uribe-Iguchi. Cameron is probably too high a price to pay. I just wish Ozzie would give Dye more fielding practice for balls hit in front of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) Forget about the f***ing stats for once. Did you see this butcher play SS at all last season? He sucks there, period. Why in the hell do you think that the Mets moved him back to 2nd base? Even Mets fans know this guy sucks. They don't even want him. By the way, how has Kaz been hitting this season? Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) Forget about the f***ing stats for once. Did you see this butcher play SS at all last season? He sucks there, period. Why in the hell do you think that the Mets moved him back to 2nd base? Even Mets fans know this guy sucks. They don't even want him. By the way, how has Kaz been hitting this season? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've not seen his play so I can't comment on his fielding. I can only go by the numbers there. As for 2005 he's hitting .311 vs LH & .214 vs RH. But even vs RH he's still getting the hits in RON sits. He's always hit well at home & should hit much better at the Cell. My feeling on Kaz is that we've not seen his best game. How could a top fielding & hitting all-star SS in Japan be this bad? NY sours guys & playing with Iguchi could change that. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/printart...ing-to-america/ Matsui 7-time All-Star, 3-time GG winner at SS, Iguchi 4-time All-Star, 3-time GG winner at 2B I just think if you put these two together on the same team they will bring out the best in one another. We're a better organization than the NYM. Edited May 31, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 I'd rather see Uribe turn it around and go after Rob Mackowiak to play 3rd base for us. I have no hope for Cruddy. He is just garbage at the plate, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ May 30, 2005 -> 06:23 PM) Prepare to pay at least 8 mil a season. Don't see that happening from the Sox. He will be 27 years old by the time free agency rolls around and he should enter his prime shorty there after. Eight million per year still seems like a s*** load of money for a player on pace to have the worst year of their entire career. Also since so many people hated valentin's defense they would be saying the same about furcal. Both have great range and cannons but had the tendency to overthrow their taget by a mile or miss the routine grounders. Anything complicated they can make. Furcal is not an eight million dollar player but either is cabrera ( four year 32 million dollar contract) or renteria ( foru years 40 million dollar contract). In other words owners don't know when to say enough is enough and we are not paying you an insane amount of money to play a f***ing game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ May 30, 2005 -> 06:25 PM) I've not seen his play so I can't comment on his fielding. I can only go by the numbers there. As for 2005 he's hitting .311 vs LH & .214 vs RH. But even vs RH he's still getting the hits in RON sits. He's always hit well at home & should hit much better at the Cell. My feeling on Kaz is that we've not seen his best game. How could a top fielding & hitting all-star SS in Japan be this bad? NY sours guys & playing with Iguchi could change that. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/printart...ing-to-america/ Matsui 7-time All-Star, 3-time GG winner at SS, Iguchi 4-time All-Star, 3-time GG winner at 2B I just think if you put these two together on the same team they will bring out the best in one another. We're a better organization than the NYM. The one line I'll readily agree with is that some guys just can't deal with New York, and getting Matsui out of there COULD provide a big lift. I still don't want the White Sox to take the gamble, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 While even I have grown tired of the Joe Crediocre show on the Southside of Chicago, I want NO part of Matsui. I've watched this guy play the middle infield since he came over here, and he is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 JUGGS: I'd rather target somebody who can hit righties well. Our team BA vs. RHP is abysmal. We hit LHP fine right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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