Jokers Wild

[RockRaines]

Even though I disagree with you, that was a very good post.  I agree that no moves will be made for a while, no matter how bad Crede looks right now.

I feel like if we are in this same position closer to the deadline, KW will make a big move, even if it gives up some of our top prospects (please not Anderson) to really improve our weak spots. I will say it again, im not totally against getting rid of our holes, I just dont think this will happen.

[Guest JimH]

Even though I disagree with you, that was a very good post.  I agree that no moves will be made for a while, no matter how bad Crede looks right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks, and that's exactly my point, plus the notion that I think there's an underestimation of Crede's trade value vs. Randa's.

[Jabroni]

Holy smokes.

 

Let me preface all of this by saying I have a great respect for Randa.

 

First of all, Randa was a FA after last year and I didn't see all kinds of teams lining up to get him.  He ended up in Cincy, hardly a prime FA destination.  One of the reasons why is Randa has a chronic bad back and is 35.  He is currently suffering from a badly bruised foot, and it's possible that will dog him through the year. 

 

Second, it's May.  The team is doing well but I agree can be improved.  You guys want to make a trade every week, Sox management - although stubborn at times - prefers to show faith in their players.  Showing faith in players generally equals good chemistry which generally plays a part in helping teams win.

 

Third, Crede is not hurting the team defensively.

 

Fourth, and I know people are tired of hearing about this in our short attention span world of "I want it, and I want it right now" ... Crede is 27, Randa 35.  There is still a chance Crede will improve, even though no one wants to hear it or even consider it as a possibility.  I'm as frustrated with his offense as all you are but I see the value in patience and not making a major trade.  You guys have had the following players traded or released so far this year:  Dye, Konerko, Crede, Harris, Everett, Contreras, Perez, Cotts, Vizcaino, and others.  Every week (every day?) it's somebody else who "sucks" or needs his ass shipped out.  That's knee jerk reacting, especially on the last day of May with the team in 1st place.

 

Fifth, whether we like it or not, KW and Guillen love to show faith in their players.  They made these decisions in March and two months later they are not inclined to 180 degree turn on those decisions.  To me, that's smart ... especially since the team is doing pretty well.  If Sox management followed all your guys advice, these players would play with zero confidence ... they'd all be playing afraid to get traded.  I know some of you will suggest that's BS, but I'll stand by that.

 

Lastly, the trade market will heat up this month and next.  KW and Guillen will see where they're at and what they need ... AFTER giving these guys who are mostly veterans a chance to work through things.

 

Every week Guillen makes a statement about showing faith in players.  KW and Reinsdorf give Guillen an extension so it stands to reason they agree with showing faith in their players too.

 

Of course there can be improvements, but I see KW adding to the team vs. changing out a key position like 3B.  And by the way, I do not think adding some salary is a problem for the White Sox, i.e. I don't think they'd be afraid to add Randa's contract which I believe is a 2 yr. deal.  But I don't think they feel it's the right move to trade Crede for Randa.  Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so.

 

Now ... if something happens to Crede I'm in your camp.  Get on the phone and get Randa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You act like Crede has been good for the White Sox. He hasn't. We are seeing the same Cruddy that we have always seen. He can play defense but he can't hit a lick. Yes, he is still young and he may improve (although, I think it's unlikely after watching his ugly ass swing for a few seasons). But we are trying to win THIS SEASON. We can't afford to wait and see if Crede ever pans out. He is a hole in our lineup right now and he is contributing almost nothing but defense to this team.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[Milkman delivers]

Of course there can be improvements, but I see KW adding to the team vs. changing out a key position like 3B.  And by the way, I do not think adding some salary is a problem for the White Sox, i.e. I don't think they'd be afraid to add Randa's contract which I believe is a 2 yr. deal.  But I don't think they feel it's the right move to trade Crede for Randa.  Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so.

 

December 21, 2004

Reds ink 3B Randa, leave Kearns in outfield

Third baseman Joe Randa agreed Tuesday to a one-year contract with the Reds, ending Cincinnati's plan to move right fielder Austin Kearns to the position next season.

[Guest JimH]

December 21, 2004

Reds ink 3B Randa, leave Kearns in outfield

Third baseman Joe Randa agreed Tuesday to a one-year contract with the Reds, ending Cincinnati's plan to move right fielder Austin Kearns to the position next season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One plus an option I think? I may have remembered it wrong.

[Milkman delivers]

One plus an option I think?  I may have remembered it wrong.

 

I have no idea where to get contract information. That's all I got from ESPN.

[southsideirish71]

You act like Crede has been good for the White Sox.  He hasn't.  We are seeing the same Cruddy that we have always seen.  He can play defense but he can't hit a lick.  Yes, he is still young and he may improve (although, I think it's unlikely after watching his ugly ass swing for a few seasons).  But we are trying to win THIS SEASON.  We can't afford to wait and see if Crede ever pans out.  He is a hole in our lineup right now and he is contributing almost nothing but defense to this team.

 

Do people forget that at the end of last year the sox were really getting frustrated with Crede and his stubborness to change. He has the same swing. For all the batting cage time, new resting the bat on the shoulder, voodoo tricks he still flys open early and cant hit the low and away pitch. Maybe h can hit, but obviously its not here. Boras is his agent. If Crede hits 20+ homers what do you think Boras in crazy land will think his value is. Arbitration will be fun.

[Rowand44]

If we're going to add a bat 3rd base seems like the the logical position. I'm a big fan of Joe Randa, however if Kenny is going to trade for a 3rd baseman knowing him he's going to go for a Huff or a Chavez, he'll go for the upper tier talent.

[Guest JimH]

You act like Crede has been good for the White Sox.  He hasn't.  We are seeing the same Cruddy that we have always seen.  He can play defense but he can't hit a lick.  Yes, he is still young and he may improve (although, I think it's unlikely after watching his ugly ass swing for a few seasons).  But we are trying to win THIS SEASON.  We can't afford to wait and see if Crede ever pans out.  He is a hole in our lineup right now and he is contributing almost nothing but defense to this team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Again, holy smokes.

 

I presume you saw the part where I said I'm frustrated with Crede's offense.

 

It is not all "good" and not all "bad" when it comes to these players. Crede has done the job a few times this year with situational hitting and a couple of sac flies, things which do not show up in the stats. He needs to learn how to get down a bunt better though LOL.

 

Of course we are trying to win this season. The Sox mgmt. team will give this current cast every chance to show what they can do and cannot do ... as I stated and KW stated just recently, they went through and made all these decisions in March and now 60 days later they feel it's more important to show faith in players who are mostly veterans vs. spinning around like a top and making trades.

 

The other point about Randa is the bad foot, if we are talking about winning this year and this guy is hobbling on a bad plant foot ... that can be a problem. Neither of us know the severity of the foot problem but Randa is a gamer and it's kept him out or at least in limited duty.

 

I think you will just have to get used to this ... as long as this mgmt. team is in place, they will show faith in their players, give them every opportunity to perform and contribute, and look at the big picture. The big picture almost always does not include trading one of your starting position players by May 31.

 

Feel free to holler for a trade, it's every fan's right. But don't expect it. Guillen, KW, and the coaching staff are on the same page and that page is sticking with the decisions they made in March for a little more than 60 days.

[RockRaines]

Do people forget that at the end of last year the sox were really getting frustrated with Crede and his stubborness to change.  He has the same swing. For all the batting cage time, new resting the bat on the shoulder, voodoo tricks he still flys open early and cant hit the low and away pitch.  Maybe h can hit, but obviously its not here.  Boras is his agent.  If Crede hits 20+ homers what do you think Boras in crazy land will think his value is.    Arbitration will be fun.

I think many GM's would rather be going to the dentist that Arbitration with that asshole.

[Jabroni]

I have no idea where to get contract information.  That's all I got from ESPN.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Reds just signed Randa to a 1-year, $2.15 million deal. There is no option. He would be the perfect trade target at or before the deadline because we would only owe him around $1 million then. If we need him for another season because Josh Fields isn't ready, we could just re-sign him to another cheap 1-year deal.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[southsideirish71]

Again, holy smokes.

 

I presume you saw the part where I said I'm frustrated with Crede's offense.

 

It is not all "good" and not all "bad" when it comes to these players.  Crede has done the job a few times this year with situational hitting and a couple of sac flies, things which do not show up in the stats.  He needs to learn how to get down a bunt better though LOL.

 

Of course we are trying to win this season.  The Sox mgmt. team will give this current cast every chance to show what they can do and cannot do ... as I stated and KW stated just recently, they went through and made all these decisions in March and now 60 days later they feel it's more important to show faith in players who are mostly veterans vs. spinning around like a top and making trades.

 

The other point about Randa is the bad foot, if we are talking about winning this year and this guy is hobbling on a bad plant foot ... that can be a problem.  Neither of us know the severity of the foot problem but Randa is a gamer and it's kept him out or at least in limited duty.

 

I think you will just have to get used to this ... as long as this mgmt. team is in place, they will show faith in their players, give them every opportunity to perform and contribute, and look at the big picture.  The big picture almost always does not include trading one of your starting position players by May 31.

 

Feel free to holler for a trade, it's every fan's right.  But don't expect it.  Guillen, KW, and the coaching staff are on the same page and that page is sticking with the decisions they made in March for a little more than 60 days.

 

Sure lets just stick with the same lineup and offense that barely gets a few runs and hope and pray that the pitching keeps lights out.

 

Nothing like putting that much pressure on the pitching staff, its not like pitching your ass out only to have your team score 2-3-4 runs a game in the AL will do anything to mess up chemistry. Lets stick our heads in the sand and stick with the same formula and maybe it works out.

[RockRaines]

The Reds just signed Randa to a 1-year, $2.15 million deal.  There is no option.  He would be the perfect trade target at or before the deadline because we would only owe him around $1 million then.  If we need him for another season because Josh Fields isn't ready, we could just re-sign him to another cheap 1-year deal.

That's a good observation then, I was under the impression it was a two-year deal. But dealing a starter for a one-year rental doesnt sound like something KW would do....

[RockRaines]

Sure lets just stick with the same lineup and offense that barely gets a few runs and hope and pray that the pitching keeps lights out. 

 

Nothing like putting that much pressure on the pitching staff, its not like pitching your ass out only to have your team score 2-3-4 runs a game in the AL will do anything to mess up chemistry. Lets stick our heads in the sand and stick with the same formula and maybe it works out.

It seems to be working nicely right now. If you can consistently score 4 runs a game and hold the opponent under that, you will win, simple as that. If this was a dire situation I could understand how furious you are at the offense, but fact is, we are still in first, have the best record in the MLB, and just got our best hitter back.

[Jabroni]

That's a good observation then, I was under the impression it was a two-year deal.  But dealing a starter for a one-year rental doesnt sound like something KW would do....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How long do you think Kenny is going to want to keep Cruddy around with how sucky he is? It's not like Crede is showing any signs of improvement. In fact, he is getting worse. Josh Fields is waiting in the wings (not that he's ready yet) and Crede will just get more and more expensive to keep. He just isn't worth it. The problem is that you guys think Crede has a bright future. The realists see how bad he truly is.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[southsideirish71]

It seems to be working nicely right now.  If you can consistently score 4 runs a game and hold the opponent under that, you will win, simple as that.  If this was a dire situation I could understand how furious you are at the offense, but fact is, we are still in first, have the best record in the MLB, and just got our best hitter back.

 

 

Check out our record for the last few weeks and tell me how the offense is working out? We are barely in first. 4 games up in May is not something I would trump myself on. We got our best hitter back, a 37 year old guy coming back from a major injury. If you think he is just going to come back and the offense will switch you are too hopeful. Frank walks yesterday. Bases loaded no one out. Paully GIDP's. Now I understand that everyone had this misconception that Paully will not GIDP even though that before frank got back he GIDP in the same situation. One man doesnt make an offense when so many are struggling. They will pitch around Frank to get to Kong. Its going to happen.

[Guest JimH]

Sure lets just stick with the same lineup and offense that barely gets a few runs and hope and pray that the pitching keeps lights out. 

 

Nothing like putting that much pressure on the pitching staff, its not like pitching your ass out only to have your team score 2-3-4 runs a game in the AL will do anything to mess up chemistry. Lets stick our heads in the sand and stick with the same formula and maybe it works out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure, let's just start trading our starting position players when the team has gotten off to this awful start and are mired in third place.

 

It works both ways.

 

Have you read or heard any of the quotes from Guillen or KW about them showing faith in these players? What does that tell you?

 

To me, it says they're going to have faith in these current players, and make any moves if needed closer to the deadline.

[fathom]

It seems to be working nicely right now.  If you can consistently score 4 runs a game and hold the opponent under that, you will win, simple as that.  If this was a dire situation I could understand how furious you are at the offense, but fact is, we are still in first, have the best record in the MLB, and just got our best hitter back.

 

Why wait for this to become a dire situation? First, we can't count too much on Thomas this year. I don't see how he's going to be able to play more than every other day over the course of the season. Also, why don't we ask the Dodgers from a few years ago how it is to have a great pitching, weak hitting team? Once it gets hotter out, the ball will be flying out of the Cell again. We're going to have to outslug teams.

[CWSGuy406]

How long do you think Kenny is going to want to keep Cruddy around with how sucky he is?  It's not like Crede is showing any signs of improvement.  In fact, he is getting worse.  Josh Fields is waiting in the wings (not that he's ready yet) and Crede will just get more and more expensive to keep.  He just isn't worth it.  The problem is that you guys think Crede has a bright future.  The realists see how bad he truly is.

 

Don't take this as a jab at you -- but, did the realists also see how bad Jon Garland truly is, too, for the past four-five years?

[fathom]

Don't take this as a jab at you -- but, did the realists also see how bad Jon Garland truly is, too, for the past four-five years?

 

For me personally, Garland was always about an average AL pitcher. However, Crede is so below average at 3rd base in the AL, it's pathetic.

[Jabroni]

Don't take this as a jab at you -- but, did the realists also see how bad Jon Garland truly is, too, for the past four-five years?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Garland was always a good 5th starter. When has Crede ever been good in a full season?

 

For me personally, Garland was always about an average AL pitcher.  However, Crede is so below average at 3rd base in the AL, it's pathetic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You beat me to it.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[southsideirish71]

Sure, let's just start trading our starting position players when the team has gotten off to this awful start and are mired in third place.

 

It works both ways.

 

Have you read or heard any of the quotes from Guillen or KW about them showing faith in these players?  What does that tell you?

 

To me, it says they're going to have faith in these current players, and make any moves if needed closer to the deadline.

 

I have also heard the one that says that KW will do whatever it takes to win. This is the guy who traded our starting young catcher and number 1 rated prospect last year early. KW will make a trade, if you think that this team will stay the same throughout the year then you are too much of a literalist.

[southsideirish71]

Don't take this as a jab at you -- but, did the realists also see how bad Jon Garland truly is, too, for the past four-five years?

 

 

Garland is a young pitcher. They mature about 26-27. Crede is a 3rd baseman, he is at the point where he is supposed to be a finished product. He is regressing if that is possible.

Edited May 31, 2005 by southsideirish71

[Jabroni]

Garland is a young pitcher.  They mature about 26-26.  Crede is a 3rd baseman, he is at the point where he is supposed to be a finished product.  He is regressing if that is possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it is possible and Cruddy is intent on showing us how.

[RockRaines]

Check out our record for the last few weeks and tell me how the offense is working out?  We are barely in first. One man doesnt make an offense when so many are struggling. 

Sounds like adding Joe Randa wouldnt help us out much then huh? Frank is the best hitter to ever put on a White Sox uniform. His OBP is still stellar and he will get hits. If you think that adding him wont help our lineup then you are blinded by your rage. I agree, Konerko is an automatic double play, but as you said before, established offensive players will recover, and he was on a mini tear there for a while. We need to get used to the fact that we have some of the streakiest hitters on our team. How many people on this board were raving about Crede reaching his potential when he was on a tear when the season opened, now the same people are wanting to trade him. Dye was worthless until a few weeks ago, Uribe still cant hit s***. The question is, can they get it done when it matters? Our record speaks for that right now, and I think KW will do something to improve it if it needs be.

Edited May 31, 2005 by RockRaines