Jokers Wild

[Milkman delivers]

So you would be hated too because you would be in the same situation as crede.

 

I was referring to the people that defend Crede based mainly on his defense. I, on the other hand, would hate me.

[Guest JimH]

I doubt it, I was never a good hitter.  I was a damn good fielder, though.  A lot of posters on this board would love me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

More would hate you and have you being traded or released every other day, seeing as you weren't a good hitter.

[RockRaines]

I doubt it, I was never a good hitter.  I was a damn good fielder, though.  A lot of posters on this board would love me.

Nope, you would disrupt the clubhouse chemistry.

[Milkman delivers]

Nope, you would disrupt the clubhouse chemistry.

 

Aww cmon, I'll almost play for free.

[RockRaines]

Aww cmon, I'll almost play for free.

I think its mostly the hygeine factor.

[qwerty]

I dont think he was saying that, I think he was saying that Ozuna's natural position coming up was SS, and Uribe is more suited for 2B.  I agree with the first part , but not the second, Uribe's arm is more suited for 3B than anything, that boy has a canon, his mobility is lack, but he is usually well positioned.

 

Really? That is why he was tied with izturis for the best zone rating out of any shortstop with a significant amount of time at short.

[nitetrain8601]

LOL, so now Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe?  I'm not sure I can respond because I'm laughing too hard.  Once again, you are dead wrong.

 

Defensively yes. Again, for some reason you're taking into equation the offense. When offense comes in, you don't argue positions. Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe. Uribe would be better suited for a 3B or 2B role. You were dead wrong and many people helped me prove it, so the only person you should be laughing at is yourself. There's a reason Ozuna was traded for Rentera(salary dump for potential). Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe whether you want to believe that or not.

[Jabroni]

Defensively yes. Again, for some reason you're taking into equation the offense. When offense comes in, you don't argue positions. Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe. Uribe would be better suited for a 3B or 2B role. You were dead wrong and many people helped me prove it, so the only person you should be laughing at is yourself. There's a reason Ozuna was traded for Rentera(salary dump for potential). Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe whether you want to believe that or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, I was just referring to defense and Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. You are wrong.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[southsideirish71]

Defensively yes. Again, for some reason you're taking into equation the offense. When offense comes in, you don't argue positions. Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe. Uribe would be better suited for a 3B or 2B role. You were dead wrong and many people helped me prove it, so the only person you should be laughing at is yourself. There's a reason Ozuna was traded for Rentera(salary dump for potential). Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe whether you want to believe that or not.

 

 

Again you just throw the stats out, and its because you close your eyes and believe it to be true.

[qwerty]

Defensively yes. Again, for some reason you're taking into equation the offense. When offense comes in, you don't argue positions. Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe. Uribe would be better suited for a 3B or 2B role. You were dead wrong and many people helped me prove it, so the only person you should be laughing at is yourself. There's a reason Ozuna was traded for Rentera(salary dump for potential). Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe whether you want to believe that or not.

 

No one in the baseball world would ever agree with what you have just said. It is insane.

[Jabroni]

No one in the baseball world would ever agree with what you have just said. It is insane.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL!

[RockRaines]

Really? That is why he was tied with izturis for the best zone rating out of any shortstop with a significant amount of time at short.

Easy killer, I didnt say he was a bad SS, I like him in that spot for sure, the guy has a cannon. As far as his range factor, im not even sure how to calculate that, the point I was making was the positions that they played coming up. I wouldnt want anyone else to play SS for us at this point, I love that crazy bastard.

[fathom]

I honestly don't think some people watch the games. Some of the recent comments I've heard about particular players lead me to believe people just don't watch the games....and read what Ozzie and KW say in the paper.

[nitetrain8601]

Thanks for taking care of that ridiculous post for me.  I'm still laughing at the stupidity of it.

 

You can't just look at stats. Look at CLEE, he had no errors last year at LF. I guess he's a better fielder than Jim Edmonds. Nope, that's wrong. He can't get to as many balls as an Edmonds. Uribe wouldn't be able to get to as many balls for outs as Ozuna at SS. Sad to see you have to depend on others to come up with an argument for you. And Uribe played 2B more than any other position last year. He split time at 3B and SS and not by much. Of course his stats(which is just that) will suggest he's a great SS.

 

I'm still laughing at the stupidity and lack of intellect in your posts.

[qwerty]

Easy killer, I didnt say he was a bad SS, I like him in that spot for sure, the guy has a cannon.  As far as his range factor, im not even sure how to calculate that, the point I was making was the positions that they played coming up.  I wouldnt want anyone else to play SS for us at this point, I love that crazy bastard.

 

RF= Range Factor ((PO + A) divided by innings).

 

ZR= Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

 

I look at zone rating before i look at range factor because alot of times players can have a good range factor due to the fact that they are in the right place at the right time. Zone rating is based on how far you go for the balls to either side of the field. Up, down, right, left... it is all included.

[nitetrain8601]

And how the hell does a stat calculate such things as range? That's a stat you really can't put a number on. I do go to a ton more games than any of you do. Uribe as a 2B or 3B> Uribe as a SS. Never did I say he was a butcher at SS either(but I guess some guys like arguing to make them look tough) I said Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe.

[Jabroni]

You can't just look at stats. Look at CLEE, he had no errors last year at LF. I guess he's a better fielder than Jim Edmonds. Nope, that's wrong. He can't get to as many balls as an Edmonds. Uribe wouldn't be able to get to as many balls for outs as Ozuna at SS. Sad to see you have to depend on others to come up with an argument for you. And Uribe played 2B more than any other position last year. He split time at 3B and SS and not by much. Of course his stats(which is just that) will suggest he's a great SS.

 

I'm still laughing at the stupidity and lack of intellect in your posts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find it funny that everyone is agreeing with me that Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. Thanks though.

 

By the way, is there any room left on "Crede's Crew"? I just love that .225 AVG of his!

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[qwerty]

You can't just look at stats. Look at CLEE, he had no errors last year at LF. I guess he's a better fielder than Jim Edmonds. Nope, that's wrong. He can't get to as many balls as an Edmonds. Uribe wouldn't be able to get to as many balls for outs as Ozuna at SS. Sad to see you have to depend on others to come up with an argument for you. And Uribe played 2B more than any other position last year. He split time at 3B and SS and not by much. Of course his stats(which is just that) will suggest he's a great SS.

 

I'm still laughing at the stupidity and lack of intellect in your posts.

 

Uribe had the very best zone rating along with izturis last year. How can you deny the fact that he has great range? Nothing you have said makes me believe that ozuna will get to more balls than uribe does. Why because he is faster? Their are alot faster short stops than uribe but that doesn't make them any better of a fielder. Uribe gets good reads on the ball and has excellent jumps more so than almost any infielder in baseball. But stats mean nothing or very little.

[nitetrain8601]

RF= Range Factor ((PO + A) divided by innings).

 

ZR= Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

 

I look at zone rating before i look at range factor because alot of times players can have a good range factor due to the fact that they are in the right place at the right time. Zone rating is based on how far you go for the balls to either side of the field. Up, down, right, left... it is all included.

 

And how do you calculate that? If you have a Scott Rolen at 3B, wouldn't your range automatically be better or automatically worse(not sure how it works) because he gets to so many balls?

[fathom]

If anyone is complaining about Uribe's play at SS, I don't want to know what they think about our right side of the infield. Iguchi has been solid in the field, but he has absolutely no range. PK is pretty much the same. Uribe is as good of a defensive SS as we've had here in a long time. How many times does he just boot grounders like Valentin used to? Ozuna has shown me nothing to suggest he's an above average defensive infielder.

[nitetrain8601]

I find it funny that everyone is agreeing with me that Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna.  Thanks though.

 

By the way, is there any room left on "Crede's Crew"?  I just love that .225 AVG of his!

 

So if I bring a bunch of guys to this site and they agree with me on every point I make, am I automatically right?

 

Stupid ass argument made by a stupid ass poster. Not suprised it came from you.

[Jabroni]

So if I bring a bunch of guys to this site and they agree with me on every point I make, am I automatically right?

 

Stupid ass argument made by a stupid ass poster. Not suprised it came from you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are wrong and many posters here are trying to tell you the same. Qwerty is even using stats to back the point. Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. Just because you saw Ozuna play SS in person doesn't mean he's better defensively than Uribe at the position.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Jabroni

[Guest JimH]

Nite,

 

I like them both but I would say Uribe is the better SS. Way better arm and for some reason with that awkward style of his he's great w/the glove and will only get better.

 

I see what you're saying about him being suited for 2B but from my view it's because Uribe is such a good athlete he did a fine job at 2B and 3B also. So much so they wanted to keep him as the super sub and bring in Vizquel. Uribe was clearly brought in to be the SS of the future, and I think there's a reason why Pablo has basically been a career reserve. No one thought enough of him to offer him a 40 man spot, even after a very good AAA year last year. He had to have a world beater spring to make the White Sox.

 

I'm very happy to have Ozuna and like him a lot, but I think Uribe is definitely more talented as a SS, on several levels. Except maybe drawing walks and laying down bunts LOL.

[nitetrain8601]

If anyone is complaining about Uribe's play at SS, I don't want to know what they think about our right side of the infield.  Iguchi has been solid in the field, but he has absolutely no range.  PK is pretty much the same.  Uribe is as good of a defensive SS as we've had here in a long time.  How many times does he just boot grounders like Valentin used to?  Ozuna has shown me nothing to suggest he's an above average defensive infielder.

 

I never said he was a butcher at SS, lots of people just assume that.

[qwerty]

And how the hell does a stat calculate such things as range? That's a stat you really can't put a number on. I do go to a ton more games than any of you do. Uribe as a 2B or 3B> Uribe as a SS. Never did I say he was a butcher at SS either(but I guess some guys like arguing to make them look tough) I said Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe.

 

''Stats inc'' has diagrams and such that displays how much ground they cover. It is a stat that can be put in put a number on even though it is not perfected yet it is the best anyone has come up with at the moment. Uribe> at third and second and it is not even that close.