Texsox Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Isn't wins and losses where it is at? Has Oz cost us any games? Has he won any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 03:03 AM) Isn't wins and losses where it is at? Has Oz cost us any games? Has he won any? No way to say either way, but in my opinion, the teams attitude may be the biggest reason for our success. And that team attitude reflects Ozzie's. In my mind, it is hard to minimize the significance of Ozzie's presence to this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 All five of you, please name the 3+ games that Ozzie has contributed to the win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needauribe Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) No way to say either way, but in my opinion, the teams attitude may be the biggest reason for our success. And that team attitude reflects Ozzie's. In my mind, it is hard to minimize the significance of Ozzie's presence to this team. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Edited June 1, 2005 by needauribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 10:28 PM) All five of you, please name the 3+ games that Ozzie has contributed to the win. Well, there are plenty of wins to choose from where the bullpen was involved. Does this count or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 10:28 PM) All five of you, please name the 3+ games that Ozzie has contributed to the win. There is nothing he does, move wise during the game, that translates into wins...only losses. However, do you honestly think the White Sox are 35-17 with a different manager at the helm? There is some glue that is holding this piece of s*** ship together, and it is not the talent of the players. hint: Ozzie = glue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 03:32 AM) However, do you honestly think the White Sox are 35-17 with a different manager at the helm? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ozzie may be this "glue" you speak of, but it most definitly isn't because his managerial skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvxplorer Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 08:28 PM) All five of you, please name the 3+ games that Ozzie has contributed to the win. You're asking the wrong people. Ask the players, and they will give you the answer you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 09:36 PM) Ozzie may be this "glue" you speak of, but it most definitly isn't because his managerial skills. Name me a manager that's won 3+ games for his team this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvxplorer Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 08:36 PM) Ozzie may be this "glue" you speak of, but it most definitly isn't because his managerial skills. There's more to managing than filling out the lineup - much more. Skill goes beyond technical decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 03:38 AM) Name me a manager that's won 3+ games for his team this season. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well according to nine people on Soxtalk, Ozzie Guillen is one. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 09:40 PM) Well according to nine people on Soxtalk, Ozzie Guillen is one. :headshake OK. Name me another that has contributed 3+ wins to his team. EDIT: Yikes, don't post after a few drinks.... "great grammar" Edited June 1, 2005 by Wedge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 03:42 AM) OK. Name me another and which 3+ games. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think were on the same page here, Cowbell. I think the mere thought that Ozzie Guillen's managerial performance in games this season has cost this team dramatically and in no way has done anything remotely close to helping this team win ball games. It would be hard off the top of my head, but if you still want managers who statistically could be credited for 3+ wins this season, it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 09:36 PM) Ozzie may be this "glue" you speak of, but it most definitly isn't because his managerial skills. A manager has never won a pennant. The team goes out there and plays the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 03:42 AM) OK. Name me another that has contributed 3+ wins to his team. EDIT: Yikes, don't post after a few drinks.... "great grammar" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You deserved those drinks after that Dye home run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 03:38 AM) Name me a manager that's won 3+ games for his team this season. Exactly. Its hard to credit specific wins and/or losses to a manager. Ultimately its the play on the field that wins or loses ballgames. All I look at is the fact that Ozzie is the manager of the team with the best record in baseball. And being that the team likes and respects him (as indicated by almost every interview I've heard), and the fact that we aren't winning because we are the most talented team on earth, I have to believe that Ozzie has something to do with it. As for his managing skills, yes he makes some questionable calls, but what manager doesn't? I've seen LaRussa, Sciocsia, and Torre call some s***ty games in their careers as well. Overall, I've liked how Ozzie's handled the starters and has found a way to keep our reserves fresh (yes, sometimes to a fault - Timo). Ozzie has made some moves that have left me scratching my head, but for the most part, I think he does well with the talent that he is given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Ozzie's managing really runs the gamut. It seems like everytime I question a move, there's a pretty good reason, statistical or otherwise, behind it. I think sometimes he leaves starters in too long, but that's probably because we only have 2 or 3 reliable bullpen arms at most on a given night. Ozzie's a learning manager and I think he's going to get better and better at "managing" as it is. That said, I think there's a lot about him that's intangible that he brings to the mix. I don't think KW goes out and has the last offseason (one that was pretty aggressive, and more effective than usual for KW) and I don't think there's a lot of managers out there that make it work quite the way Ozzie does. He's got three things for sure: 1) a good eye for talent, 2) a vision on how to put together a lineup, rotation, and bullpen, and 3) a relentless desire to teach his players how to play the game the "right" way. When you combine those three things, I think you have a manager that's going to be pretty successful over a long period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 10:36 PM) Ozzie may be this "glue" you speak of, but it most definitly isn't because his managerial skills. You are telling me something I have known since the first month of 2004. Ozzie, as far as making baseball moves, such as pinch hitting, using the bullpen, knowing when to take a pitcher out and when not to, and moves of that type, is horrible - probably one of the worst. But if he were a bad manager, not only would his contract not have been extended, but he would no longer be managing. The players love him, as he keeps the clubhouse loose, and the fans love him, because he is a lovable guy that is funny as hell. The reason a lot of sabermaticians/purists hate him is because he does not only manage by the book, but he also keeps on winning as manager of the White Sox with the stats not backing up why they are winning. Tell me though, if Guillen is such a horrible manager, who would you prefer managing this ballclub, and where would they be in the standings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvxplorer Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ May 31, 2005 -> 08:44 PM) I don't think were on the same page here, Cowbell. I think the mere thought that Ozzie Guillen's managerial performance in games this season has cost this team dramatically and in no way has done anything remotely close to helping this team win ball games. It would be hard off the top of my head, but if you still want managers who statistically could be credited for 3+ wins this season, it can be done. I understand where you're coming from, and I would tend to agree - except for one thing - you and I have no idea what goes on in the dugout/clubhouse. Certain things cannot be measured in a box score or by spectators such as us. I've heard nothing but praise for Ozzie by the players, and managing the players as human beings is just as important as making all the right calls on the field. Indeed, this is the case with any managerial position, in any industry. A boatload of talent is useless without someone who is adept at utilizing that talent, and in that respect, I think Ozzie has done an exceptional job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 31, 2005 -> 10:53 PM) Tell me though, if Guillen is such a horrible manager, who would you prefer managing this ballclub, and where would they be in the standings? Since this is a Chicago White Sox board... Mike Ditka, 52-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 03:55 AM) Since this is a Chicago White Sox board... Mike Ditka, 52-0. Well, that goes without saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ May 31, 2005 -> 10:55 PM) Since this is a Chicago White Sox board... Mike Ditka, 52-0. For the s***s and giggles What would the scores of those games be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Depends, do we have mini-Ditka playing 3rd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 31, 2005 -> 10:56 PM) For the s***s and giggles What would the scores of those games be? I don't have to say a score; this picture says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvxplorer Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ May 31, 2005 -> 08:55 PM) Since this is a Chicago White Sox board... Mike Ditka, 52-0. So, with Ozzie's emphasis on defense, that makes him who? Buddy Ryan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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