aboz56 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 02:10 PM) Come on Alex, you should know better than to judge a guy based on 80 innings of work. Go back and pull up Greg Maddux's, or Randy Johnson's or Curt Schilling's first 80 innings and tell me what you see. I am not saying Neal will be a superstar, but that is a pretty short sighted bar you are using to deterimine a guys career. He may turn out okay, I'm just tired of his defenders saying he is good now. He isn't. He needs more seasoning in AAA. I thought it was funny that people would think that if you threw out the starts that he was pretty good. A 4.86 ERA as a reliever is simply not good, whichever way you slice it. Even Botch has a career era under 4. Unfortunately we don't have anyone else who can take his spot right now or do the job any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:13 PM) He may turn out okay, I'm just tired of his defenders saying he is good now. He isn't. He needs more seasoning in AAA. I thought it was funny that people would think that if you threw out the starts that he was pretty good. A 4.86 ERA as a reliever is simply not good, whichever way you slice it. Unfortunately we don't have anyone else who can take his spot right now or do the job any better. If you want to judge how he is now, why wouldn't you just use his 2005 stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 12:13 PM) Unfortunately we don't have anyone else who can take his spot right now or do the job any better. Exactly, if we had another lefty anywhere it would be nice. But we really dont. I still think we should send shingo down for Baj, but thats just my opinion. Cotts DOES need to learn another pitch, however, his changing speeds just allows hitter to sit on his fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 02:14 PM) If you want to judge how he is now, why wouldn't you just use his 2005 stats? You can look at those as well. ERA is pretty decent, WHIP is horrible at over 1.3. If you are going to use the argument that we haven't seen enough in 3 years to tell how good he is, I'll say that 15 or whatever innings he's thrown this year aren't enough to tell he is any better than in year's past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:17 PM) You can look at those as well. ERA is pretty decent, WHIP is horrible at over 1.3. If you are going to use the argument that we haven't seen enough in 3 years to tell how good he is, I'll say that 15 or whatever innings he's thrown this year aren't enough to tell he is any better than in year's past. Like I said, to write him off already is premature IMO. Many, many, many pitchers take time to establish themselves in the majors. Cotts has pitched one full season up here, along with 2 stints of about 2 months each in 2 different seasons, I would hardly call that 3 years. Heck check these numbers out if you don't believe me. Greg Maddux first two seasons http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/maddugr01.shtml Tom Glavine's first two seasons http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/glavito02.shtml Javier Vazquez's first two seasons http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/vazquja01.shtml Eric Gagne's first two seasons http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gagneer01.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) Maddux and Glavine have great control. Vazquez and Gagne have great stuff. Cotts has neither great control nor great stuff. Edited June 1, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 06:33 PM) Maddux and Glavine have great control. Vazquez and Gagne have great stuff. Cotts has neither great control nor great stuff. No but unlike those first 3 who are starters.. Cotts is a RP... and with that fastball of his if he can control it he should be very successfull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 He was better in May than April. 3.00 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, only 2 walks allowed in 9 innings (compared to 6 in 7 innings in April). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 No but unlike those first 3 who are starters.. Cotts is a RP... and with that fastball of his if he can control it he should be very successfull. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ummm, Cotts started out as starting pitcher. Gagne also started out as a starting pitcher before he became a closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 07:22 PM) Ummm, Cotts started out as starting pitcher. Gagne also started out as a starting pitcher before he became a closer. I know capt. obvious the point is he isnt a starter now... All RP's are failed starters.. well most are... So as a RP you dont need to have as good control or as good as "stuff" as a starter would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 02:22 PM) Ummm, Cotts started out as starting pitcher. Gagne also started out as a starting pitcher before he became a closer. Gagne also had almost 300 innings to figure things out before he moved to the pen. Neal had pitched about 80 innings coming into this year. If anything he is at a disadvantage again, because he isn't getting nearly the amount of work that some of these guys have, and is still putting up respectible numbers in only his second full year at the major league level. Its one thing to write off a Joe Crede who has had a few years at the majors, it is quite another to write off a Neal Cotts who has one full major league season under his belt, and under 100 innings of total major league experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 06:33 PM) Maddux and Glavine have great control. Vazquez and Gagne have great stuff. Cotts has neither great control nor great stuff. You can knock Cotts' control all that you would like, but to say he doesn't have above average stuff is pretty silly when he's struck out almost eight guys per nine innings in his short career... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Cotts throws a Fastball, a Curve, and a Change right? Has he learned the Cutter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 06:07 AM) You can knock Cotts' control all that you would like, but to say he doesn't have above average stuff is pretty silly when he's struck out almost eight guys per nine innings in his short career... Just my thinking. You can get on a guy like Russ Ortiz all you want for I care because he walks batters, but look at his K/9 stats for this season. At least Cotts strikes guys out. 2 walks in May only, is also very, very promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That funky motion Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 That was a great 7th! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Cotts' ERA at 3 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I bow down to the Cocks tonight. He was the key to winning the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) I bow down to the Cocks tonight. He was the key to winning the game. Cocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 (edited) Cocks? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, that's his nickname in the chat room. I didn't coin it. Edited June 4, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Cotts just had his best outing in a Sox uniform. Congrats to him and keep up the good work. Always nice to fill a need from within in a playoff push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Cotts has a very sneaky fastball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettysburg32 Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 FWIW, in Cotts' last 7 outings (from 5/15 - present), here are his stats: 6 2/3 IP, 1 ER (1.35 ERA), 3 H, 2 BB, 8 Ks At the moment at least, he's the least of our bullpen concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 02:58 AM) I bow down to the Cocks tonight. He was the key to winning the game. If your going to bow down to a guy you should probably call him by the right name Only people who call him Cocks are immature kids or Aboz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 If your going to bow down to a guy you should probably call him by the right name Only people who call him Cocks are immature kids or Aboz <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, I will call him Cocks. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I am maybe the biggest Cotts (Botch) basher around but I will give him credit for today. I doubt he can keep it up, so his role as mop up/once in a while 7th inning pitcher if we have a 2 run lead is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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