Our manager is clueless with the bullpen

[fathom]

We couldn't expect Walker to be lights out (not like he normally is anyways), but you can't expect him to be ready when the last time he pitched was about 2 weeks ago.

 

Then why in the living f*** is he pitching in a one run game in the 7th inning....and left in to face 5 batters?

[nvxplorer]

Trying to determine if a guy is worthy of a roster spot by throwing him into that situation when he has appeared in exactly 1 game for 1 inning the last 17 days would the craziest thing Ozzie has ever done.

I disagree. If they were undecided on sending down Shingo, Vizcaino or Walker (which is a reasonable assumption), they had today to see Walker in action. Walker was put into a pressure situation, one that would either make or break him. If he has big league stuff, he had today to show it.

 

As much as some want to call Ozzie a moron, I doubt he put Walker in there wanting him to fail. It was put up or shut up time, and Walker blew it. It's one game on June 1st. These decisions aren't made by consulting Ms. Cleo. The team wanted to give Walker a chance to keep his spot. It's as simple as that.

[sayitaintso]

Then why in the living f*** is he pitching in a one run game in the 7th inning....and left in to face 5 batters?

Hey don't ask me, ask the guy who put him in.

[ottawa_sox]

The reason i think Perez was in there cause I think he wanted to get as many lefties in there against Byrd whose a hell of alot worse against lefties then righties..And I can't really remember a day off he's had..

"Perez was starting for Paul Konerko, who was given the night off to rest and even skipped pregame drills"

 

With 2 straight days off he should be ready to go another month without a break like all robots.

 

Reading this thread made me sick to my stomach and started to really be dissapointed with my fellow sox fans with Ozzie the worst ,manager and he should be fired even though we have the best record in baseball is pretty retarded.

 

We don't know the situation was with Marte and marte is always the first guy Ozzie brings out of that bullpen in these sits, but I sure he felt he couldn't go..maybe Marte said something..maybe it was Ozzie's call..But I'm sure all you would want to pitch the late innings are Marte ,Pollite, and Herm the rest of the year..

 

But this isn't a video game, they aren't machines to be called every single day..The innings pitched is deceiving cause I've seen multiple times here Marte has been warming up in the pen and ended up not brought into games.

And those warm up pitches also to add up at the end of the year..But I don't want our guys arms falling off in August..We HAVE to use guys like Vic and Shingo..We CAN'T be just using 3 damn guys out of that pen..

 

It be nice for us to have a like a 7 run lead going into the 8th so now we can put Vic and Shingo for mop up, but we've been involved in like what..over 20 one run games this year? So in the end it be nice for us just to use Cliff and Herm...and the amount of s*** I've been hearing about Marte sucking this year if he'd off blown this game we would be calling for his head and Ozzie's head..

"Why didn't he bring in Herm to pitch the last 3 innings?!?!? He hasn't pitched ina  while and he was a starter..he could go 3!"

 

Lets face, the Angels had 4 lefties going in a row..Cliff does better against righties, we have Walker on the roster just for this situation..To get lefties out..Hasn't pitched in a while..He didn't get the job done..maybe it was Ozzie's fault for not pitching this guy only 2 innings the past 2 weeks..The guy was a rusty mess... I guess Ozzie was put into a corner..He thought Marte couldn't go and I'm sure Walker is gonna be sent down when Orlando is activated.

I guess he had confidence that Walker would get the job done..

 

Didn't work out, but to call out someone's incompetence with out context is shameful.

I'm sure if you guys were the manager we would be undefeated and on to being 162-0 cause you know everything...

 

Lets see what Ozzie has to say...and not to be petty and call for someone head cause it makes you sound silly..

 

But hey, maybe our guys will take our players back to the lab for some fine tuning and maybe some state of the art replacement parts so we'll be able to go with the same 12 players on our roster with out a days rest.

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto

 

Well said. And just to add to the Timo thought. Maybe Ozzie is aware that Timo is on the bubble with the impending arrival of Gload. And he wanted to give him a chance to prove his worth by adding 1st to his versatility quotient. And it's not like he hasn't been a hero recently. On the surface, shouldn't he have a lot more range than Paulie. Who is struggling. Harris surely has more range than Gooch. With a predominately left handed hitting opponent and a right hander on the mound for us (with a somewhat questionable mental makeup), the right side defense of Harris and Perez could have been a boost to Contreras. I'm not saying this is the move I would have made, but it might have factored into Ozzie's thinking.

[aboz56]

As much as some want to call Ozzie a moron, I doubt he put Walker in there wanting him to fail. It was put up or shut up time, and Walker blew it. It's one game on June 1st. These decisions aren't made by consulting Ms. Cleo. The team wanted to give Walker a chance to keep his spot. It's as simple as that.

What is this some kind of audition?

 

Screw that, try to win the game...Don't use AAA fodder to try and beat a good team when you have a one run lead.

[fathom]

Well said.  And just to add to the Timo thought. Maybe Ozzie is aware that Timo is on the bubble with the impending arrival of Gload. And he wanted to give him a chance to prove his worth by adding 1st to his versatility quotient.  And it's not like he hasn't been a hero recently.  On the surface, shouldn't he have a lot more range than Paulie.  Who is struggling.  Harris surely has more range than Gooch.  With a predominately left handed hitting opponent and a right hander on the mound for us (with a somewhat questionable mental makeup), the right side defense of Harris and Perez could have been a boost to Contreras.  I'm not saying this is the move I would have made, but it might have factored into Ozzie's thinking.

 

All I ask from our 1b is for him to catch the f***ing throws from the infielders. Timo failed, plain and simple.

[sayitaintso]

But why they brought him in that close of a game and left him in so long, well that was just plain stupid on their behalf.

[ottawa_sox]

All I ask from our 1b is for him to catch the f***ing throws from the infielders.  Timo failed, plain and simple.

 

It made me go to the fridge for another cold one.

[fathom]

Well, lefty hitters are batting .205 against Kelly Wunsch this year....but we all know that KW has some personal hatred for the good looking lefty.

[aboz56]

Well, lefty hitters are batting .205 against Kelly Wunsch this year....but we all know that KW has some personal hatred for the good looking lefty.

Remember, as KW told me at Soxfest, Neal Cotts is better....

 

[nvxplorer]

Then why in the living f*** is he pitching in a one run game in the 7th inning....and left in to face 5 batters?

As I've already stated, and this is just speculation, the team has a decision to make. Someone has to go down. It's obvious that that person is either Shingo, Vizcaino or Walker. The fact Walker hasn't pitched in so long is precisely why he was used - so that he could be evaluated before the decision was made. If this is indeed what KW and Ozzie were doing, it was pre-determined that Walker would pitch at some point in today's game.

 

From the standpoint of just today's game, it looks like Ozzie gave the win away, but I could understand if management was willing to risk losing the game in making an important decision. The only way to test the guy is to pitch him. I was upset at the decision as well. I want the Sox to win every game, but now that it's over, I can place myself in management's shoes and understand what they may have been doing.

 

Sending Shingo or Vizcaino down to Charlotte could be the worst thing for them at this stage, but if Walker had proven himself in a critical situation today, they may have sent one of them down anyway.

[southsideirish71]

Remember, as KW told me at Soxfest, Neal Cotts is better....

 

   

KW is on drugs then.

[fathom]

As I've already stated, and this is just speculation, the team has a decision to make. Someone has to go down. It's obvious that that person is either Shingo, Vizcaino or Walker. The fact Walker hasn't pitched in so long is precisely why he was used - so that he could be evaluated before the decision was made. If this is indeed what KW and Ozzie were doing, it was pre-determined that Walker would pitch at some point in today's game.

 

 

Fine, but why leave him in so long? Walker looked absolutely terrible out there. Why not pull him after two batters then?

[Jabroni]

As I've already stated, and this is just speculation, the team has a decision to make. Someone has to go down. It's obvious that that person is either Shingo, Vizcaino or Walker. The fact Walker hasn't pitched in so long is precisely why he was used - so that he could be evaluated before the decision was made. If this is indeed what KW and Ozzie were doing, it was pre-determined that Walker would pitch at some point in today's game.

 

From the standpoint of just today's game, it looks like Ozzie gave the win away, but I could understand if management was willing to risk losing the game in making an important decision. The only way to test the guy is to pitch him. I was upset at the decision as well. I want the Sox to win every game, but now that it's over, I can place myself in management's shoes and understand what they may have been doing.

 

Sending Shingo or Vizcaino down to Charlotte could be the worst thing for them at this stage, but if Walker had proven himself in a critical situation today, they may have sent one of them down anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only an idiot manager would throw a shaky reliever in a 1-run game to see who is the "worst of the bunch."

Edited June 2, 2005 by Jabroni

[TLAK]

I appreciate every one’s comments on Ozzie and were it later in the year I’d likely pile on. But it’s Memorial Day week. Somebody had to be sent down for El Duke tomorrow so he had to find out if Walker could stick. He couldn’t and he’s gone. Walker has nothing to b**** about, he got a chance but didn’t get it done.

 

Somebody’s got to be able to sub for Kornerko at 1B and if Timo could do it they could have saved a roster spot (over Gload), he can do everything else Gload can do. If Timo could have moved into Gloads’ role then Everett takes Timo’s because Everett can do everything else Timo can do. Timo had a chance but didn’t get it done. I was at the game and despite his rep from Japan, Timo did not look like he could be a defensive 1B in the bigs to me.

 

Should Frank go back on the DL it doesn’t matter for the present, (you just slide Ross back in) but before the game the White Sox had to find out.

 

To win a pennant you need to assemble a roster and get to know who can do what and who cannot. In a perfect world this is all worked out in ST, but the world is full of unexpected developments.

 

How much of this experimentation is Ozzie’s imagination and how much is Kenny Williams’ we will never learn. But we did learn that Walker is not a LH option at this time and Timo is not a 1B option at this time.

[quickman]

Just got back from the game, I am not reading this thread but putting timo at first was stupid, and bringing in a guy who barely pitched after taking the lead was even dumber. Ozzie is a complete moron in my book despite the record, and if we were to make the playoffs despite him he will mis manage us into crap. I am extremely pissed off that any one of us could have manged this game better. Its unexplainable what he does to this team to get them prepared.

[nvxplorer]

Fine, but why leave him in so long?  Walker looked absolutely terrible out there.  Why not pull him after two batters then?

I would guess that they wanted to see if he could pitch himself out of it. To understand where I'm coming from, you have to remove yourself from the "win at all costs" mode. The team tries to win every game, of course, but sometimes decisions are made with more in mind. It's easy for us to second guess a decision made on the field, but a baseball season is more than plugging in this player and that.

 

I'm not saying Ozzie is a superstar manager, but he's not as dumb as some make him out to be, either. We can't rely on press releases to understand managerial moves/motives. Walker was brought up for a reason. I'm still baffled that they sent Burke down for him, but they had a reason nonetheless. Walker blew one game on June 1st. I doubt the Sox will be using him in the future, but without actually playing the guy, there's no way to tell.

Edited June 2, 2005 by nvxplorer

[quickman]

I would guess that they wanted to see if he could pitch himself out of it. To understand where I'm coming from, you have to remove yourself from the "win at all costs" mode. The team tries to win every game, of course, but sometimes decisions are made with more in mind. It's easy for us to second guess a decision made on the field, but a baseball season is more than plugging in this player and that.

 

I'm not saying Ozzie is a superstar manager, but he's not as dumb as some make him out to be, either. We can't rely on press releases to gauge everyone's performance. Walker was brought up for a reason. I'm still baffled that they sent Burke down for him, but they had a reason nonetheless. Walker blew one game on June 1st. I doubt the Sox will be using him in the future, but without actually playing the guy, there's no way to tell.

 

 

But why bring him in after we just took the lead and he has not pitched much in two weeks? Makes no sense. Cotts pitch one damn inning yesterday if that asswipe is so fragile that he can't give us another inning then send his butt back to AAA as well. i don't like giving away games. Thats what happended tonight. we gave it away, and I blame OZzie. He did not play his best players nor did he put his s***ty players in a good position. that simple.

[fathom]

Somebody’s got to be able to sub for Kornerko at 1B and if Timo could do it they could have saved a roster spot (over Gload), he can do everything else Gload can do. If Timo could have moved into Gloads’ role then Everett takes Timo’s because Everett can do everything else Timo can do.  Timo had a chance but didn’t get it done.  I was at the game and despite his rep from Japan, Timo did not look like he could be a defensive 1B in the bigs to me. 

 

Are you trying to suggest that Timo is as good as Gload besides for defense at 1b? Gload is much faster than Timo (thus, he can run for someone if needed), hits lefties much better, and makes much more solid contact. Remember this: OMIT TIMO

[quickman]

Are you trying to suggest that Timo is as good as Gload besides for defense at 1b?  Gload is much faster than Timo (thus, he can run for someone if needed), hits lefties much better, and makes much more solid contact.  Remember this:  OMIT TIMO

 

 

I agree fathom , Its also well know that Gload is promised a roster spot anyway. This just doesn't make sense. if they want to spell konerko bring up gload, that simple. I think the guy is batting over 300 in AAA. I will step out and say I would rather have glaod in the outfield if needed than timo at first, and I am not a gload fan. I think Timo just needs to leave.

[nvxplorer]

But why bring him in after we just took the lead and he has not pitched much in two weeks? Makes no sense. Cotts pitch one damn inning yesterday if that asswipe is so fragile that he can't give us another inning then send his butt back to AAA as well. i don't like giving away games. Thats what happended tonight. we gave it away, and I blame OZzie. He did not play his best players nor did he put his s***ty players in a good position. that simple.

I agree that it makes no sense from the standpoint of this game, but I don't think the outcome of this early season game was the motivation for using Walker.

 

This was the last chance they had to see Walker pitch before El Duque comes back. The team obviously saw something in him, or they wouldn't have brought him up in the first place. What that something is, I don't know, but I don't work for the Sox farm system.

 

I'm guessing that Walker was slated to pitch today regardless of the game situation. It's actually beneficial that he was put into a critical situation. If the Sox had been up or down by a bunch, that component of his evaluation would be missing.

 

I see it as a big picture move, not a game move. If this were September in the same situation, I highly doubt Ozzie would have used Walker.

[southsideirish71]

I agree fathom , Its also well know that Gload is promised  a roster spot anyway. This just doesn't make sense. if they want to spell konerko bring up gload, that simple. I think the guy is batting over 300 in AAA. I will step out and say I would rather have glaod in the outfield if needed than timo at first, and I am not a gload fan. I think Timo just needs to leave.

 

 

Harris/Ozuna/Everett can all play the outfield just as good as no range Timo.

 

Gload can hit a heck of a lot better than Omit.

Gload can play first a lot better than Omit.

 

The only reason Gload isnt up is because that would make Omit expendable and who would tug at Ozzies nuts if Omit wasnt here.

 

Burke could be up and play first. Why is a 5'7 midget who hasnt played 1st in the majors dancing around 1st dropping balls with a brand spanking new unbroken in mitt. Come on this isnt little league.

[fathom]

I see it as a big picture move, not a game move. If this were September in the same situation, I highly doubt Ozzie would have used Walker.

 

I would have hoped that this organization has learned that the Twins aren't going away. We can't afford to just "give up a game" because we're trying to see if some pitcher, who is nowhere near a main contributor on this team, can actually get a lefty batter out.

[southsideirish71]

I agree that it makes no sense from the standpoint of this game, but I don't think the outcome of this early season game was the motivation for using Walker.

 

This was the last chance they had to see Walker pitch before El Duque comes back. The team obviously saw something in him, or they wouldn't have brought him up in the first place. What that something is, I don't know, but I don't work for the Sox farm system.

 

I'm guessing that Walker was slated to pitch today regardless of the game situation. It's actually beneficial that he was put into a critical situation. If the Sox had been up or down by a bunch, that component of his evaluation would be missing.

 

I see it as a big picture move, not a game move. If this were September in the same situation, I highly doubt Ozzie would have used Walker.

 

 

He could of ran Walker out there for a few innings on Friday and Sunday and called it a year. Why bring this turd in with the game on the line. Its a slap in the face to the players on the team and the fans to put a midget who hasnt played first and a joker who cant pitch out on the mound. This is a joke.

[Flash Tizzle]

I see it as a big picture move, not a game move. If this were September in the same situation, I highly doubt Ozzie would have used Walker.

 

So, what you're suggesting is the result of tonight's game was less important than deciding whether or not Walker can pitch several months from now?

 

Seriously, just think about this. It's ridiculous. And assuring yourself there's "plenty of baseball left," or the usual "Marathon, Not Sprint" cliche, you're eventually going to find yourself fretting in September/October when individual games hold heightened significance. Wins still count the same, June or October, but Guillen certaintly didn't manage like he knew that.

Edited June 2, 2005 by Flash Tizzle