Our manager is clueless with the bullpen

[quickman]

Lefty/lefty isn't bulls***. It's an age old tactic used by every manager, all the time.

 

Ozzie isn't in "love" with the pitcher/batter stategy any more than any other manager.

 

 

I am not debating the lefty lefty matchup I am debating which lefty he brought in. Walker was a poor inexcusable selection. I think 95% of the sox fans who were at the game or watched the game or have been listening to sports radio this morning would agree. Walker blows. Ozzie lost this game for us, that simple. He talks about Bobby cox all the time, I hope he starts acting like bobby cox.

[Kyyle23]

I'm sure Ozzie will go off on Brantley again.

 

When did he "go off" the first time? I didnt realize saying "Good for you" was going off?

[Guest JimH]

Well sometimes you just can't have both. At least if you choke in the 6th or 7th, you have time for a comeback. Cotts, Marte and Politte were all used yesterday, so that pretty much left Hermy (never was going to come in the 7th), Vizcaino or Walker.

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Wow stop being logical, this board can't take it. Daily Herald says Cotts was unavailable last nite. This goes back to the White Sox working around Shingo, or should I more accurately say having a bullpen which is one arm short.

 

Now they've sent Walker down which was 100% deserved. Vizcaino has been a huge disappointment, he was very good vs. lefties last year but he is awful vs. lefties and righties.

 

The fact of the matter is, they need better options in that bullpen. I have no issue whatsoever that Hermanson gave up a few runs yesterday, s*** happens. I also have no issue with them bringing him in for a non-save situation, I suppose he needed the work.

 

To me, the issue last nite was you need a better (emphasis on better) LH reliever to come in and face Figgins and 4 straight lefty hitters. As I tried to explain to two angry ballgame companions last nite, personally I feel better knowing this team cannot trust Kevin Walker on June 1st vs. putting him into a game in Sept. vs. Minnesota. Guillen might have used Shingo last nite if he was going good ... he is not and they are clearly working around him. They cannot continue to do that. You will not see Walker again, that's fine by me.

 

The only positive out of this is almost all of the bullpen gets a couple days off in a row. For everyone who says he has been overworking the pen, well, he just gave them a couple of days off. It is a long season and some of you will live and die with every single game - I cannot do that, the season is too long and players will screw up.

 

As for Timo at 1B ... Guillen apparantly thought he was a better option there than Widger ... I find that hard to believe. I did not know Timo played 1B in Japan, that's more experience than Ozuna has had at 1B. Again, it goes to show the bench is not versatile enough. It is a long season and holes will identify themselves, and they did last nite.

 

Conclusion: Guillen and KW need to sit down and realize two guys were put into bad situations last nite and it cost the game. I know it's easier said than done, but get a better LH reliever and have someone else in your organization who has actually played 1B. Konerko has been the only guy since Gload went down, that's playing with fire and they got burned last nite.

[quickman]

Wow stop being logical, this board can't take it.  Daily Herald says Cotts was unavailable last nite.  This goes back to the White Sox working around Shingo, or should I more accurately say having a bullpen which is one arm short.

 

Now they've sent Walker down which was 100% deserved.  Vizcaino has been a huge disappointment, he was very good vs. lefties last year but he is awful vs. lefties and righties.

 

The fact of the matter is, they need better options in that bullpen.  I have no issue whatsoever that Hermanson gave up a few runs yesterday, s*** happens.  I also have no issue with them bringing him in for a non-save situation, I suppose he needed the work.

 

To me, the issue last nite was you need a better (emphasis on better) LH reliever to come in and face Figgins and 4 straight lefty hitters.  As I tried to explain to two angry ballgame companions last nite, personally I feel better knowing this team cannot trust Kevin Walker on June 1st vs. putting him into a game in Sept. vs. Minnesota.  Guillen might have used Shingo last nite if he was going good ... he is not and they are clearly working around him.  They cannot continue to do that.  You will not see Walker again, that's fine by me.

 

The only positive out of this is almost all of the bullpen gets a couple days off in a row.  For everyone who says he has been overworking the pen, well, he just gave them a couple of days off.  It is a long season and some of you will live and die with every single game - I cannot do that, the season is too long and players will screw up.

 

As for Timo at 1B ... Guillen apparantly thought he was a better option there than Widger ... I find that hard to believe.  I did not know Timo played 1B in Japan, that's more experience than Ozuna has had at 1B.  Again, it goes to show the bench is not versatile enough.  It is a long season and holes will identify themselves, and they did last nite.

 

Conclusion:  Guillen and KW need to sit down and realize two guys were put into bad situations last nite and it cost the game.  I know it's easier said than done, but get a better LH reliever and have someone else in your organization who has actually played 1B.  Konerko has been the only guy since Gload went down, that's playing with fire and they got burned last nite.

 

 

Stop it jim, I heard our nut ball manager say he thought Cotts was overused, the last five days. if he is over used I have no use for this pretty boy. It seems you are in the 5% of this city who agreed with this nut job. that's fine you will not convince me otherwise. We have a day off today, tell your million dollar ball players to suck it up for one f***ing inning. Its unfortuate that I have to watch this idiot manage the next 3 years. Ozzie should put his players in the best position to succeed, he didn't last night, and he sacraficed the game. I want my money back. By the way gload is hitting 341. Not that I like gload but I think I made my point.

[southsider2k5]

Silly theoretical question here... why couldn't Crede have played first base last night with Ozuna going in at 3B, or taking SS and sending Uribe to 3B.

 

I haven't played much 3B in my time, but it seems like 1B would be the closest to 3B IMO. Also it seems a lot of 3Bs end up at 1B.

[RockRaines]

I am not debating the lefty lefty matchup I am debating which lefty he brought in. Walker was a poor inexcusable selection. I think 95% of the sox fans who were at the game or watched the game or have been listening to sports radio this morning would agree. Walker blows. Ozzie lost this game for us, that simple. He talks about Bobby cox all the time, I hope he starts acting like bobby cox.

The minute I saw his AAA ass trot out of the bullpen I knew the game was over. Not only were the Angels hitting well last night, but we bring in the pitcher who always walks at least on batter and consistently keeps the ball up in the zone. After that, when we needed a doulble play ball, he brings in Gas Can who is a flyball pitcher. It made about as much sense as having Timo play 1B.

[RockRaines]

Stop it jim, I heard our nut ball manager say he thought Cotts was overused, the last five days. if he is over used I have no use for this pretty boy. It seems you are in the 5% of this city who agreed with this nut job. that's fine you will not convince me otherwise. We have a day off today, tell your million dollar ball players to suck it up for one f***ing inning. Its unfortuate that I have to watch this idiot manage the next 3 years. Ozzie should put his players in the best position to succeed, he didn't last night, and he sacraficed the game. I want my money back. By the way gload is hitting 341.  Not that I like gload but I think I made my point.

341?? Damn I was way off.

[quickman]

The minute I saw his AAA ass trot out of the bullpen I knew the game was over.  Not only were the Angels hitting well last night, but we bring in the pitcher who always walks at least on batter and consistently keeps the ball up in the zone.  After that, when we needed a doulble play ball, he brings in Gas Can who is a flyball pitcher.  It made about as much sense as having Timo play 1B.

 

 

Rock you know where I was sitting last night. During the infield warm up prior to the first pitch Perez drops a ball. I knew he wasn't going to work out after that. Every ball thrown to him after that, I cringed. Just a bad bad, ballgame.

[RockRaines]

Rock you know where I was sitting last night. During the infield warm up prior to the first pitch Perez drops a ball. I knew he wasn't going to work out after that. Every ball thrown to him after that, I cringed. Just a bad bad, ballgame.

Every time there was a pick-off move I thought I saw the ball carry into the seats, it was close a few times, I cant hide my hatred for the little fella.

 

IN a positive note, as I said on the board yesterday Crede did hit a HR again so I hope the haters keep hating.

[Guest JimH]

Stop it jim, I heard our nut ball manager say he thought Cotts was overused, the last five days. if he is over used I have no use for this pretty boy. It seems you are in the 5% of this city who agreed with this nut job. that's fine you will not convince me otherwise. We have a day off today, tell your million dollar ball players to suck it up for one f***ing inning. Its unfortuate that I have to watch this idiot manage the next 3 years. Ozzie should put his players in the best position to succeed, he didn't last night, and he sacraficed the game. I want my money back. By the way gload is hitting 341.  Not that I like gload but I think I made my point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, let me try to address this rationally. One, see my post in the other thread. Holes have identified themselves. They need a better bullpen. I agree that if Cotts cannot be relied upon then fine, they need a more versatile bullpen especially from the left side. My entire point last nite while you were ranting about last nite's game not being fair to season ticketholders was this: we did not know what the story was with Cotts. If we believe the Daily Herald Cotts was not available. Of course Cotts is a better option than Walker. Last nite you said it should have been "anybody" other than Walker, now today you are saying you have no problem with bringing in a lefty, which is it? We agree 100% that Walker should not be on this team, now he's not. We also agree that if Cotts can't suck it up and give you 5 batters, maybe they need someone else too, and make Cotts the long man or whatever.

 

It comes down to this, Guillen needed a good situational lefthander last nite and he apparantly didn't have one. The situation clearly called for a lefthander to be brought in (they sure as hell weren't gonna bring in Takatsu, that's another problem). If Walker is all he's got in that situation, I agree that's a problem. Again I ask you, what other lefthander should he have brought in, given that Cotts was unavailable?

 

As for Timo, I have thought about that and I can't see how Widger is not a better option. But again, does it not speak to the lack of versatility on the bench? I believe it does. Konerko is going to get a day off Terry, what should they do, call you and ask if you're coming to the game so you don't have to watch substitutes play? <------ I am kidding with this remark, do not take personally.

 

I agree with you 100% that Guillen makes some goofy moves. By the same token, he has to work with the 25 guys he is given. The part that bothers me the most this morning is Timo is playing with a new 1B glove that isn't broken in. WTF? This is the major leagues, that aspect is inexcusable.

[Guest JimH]

Every time there was a pick-off move I thought I saw the ball carry into the seats, it was close a few times, I cant hide my hatred for the little fella.

 

IN a positive note, as I said on the board yesterday Crede did hit a HR again so I hope the haters keep hating.

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Nice to meet you last nite BTW.

[Guest JimH]

341?? Damn I was way off.

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I was told last nite he was hitting .356 ... ? One of the 5% of times maybe?

[quickman]

OK, let me try to address this rationally.  One, see my post in the other thread.  Holes have identified themselves.  They need a better bullpen.  I agree that if Cotts cannot be relied upon then fine, they need a more versatile bullpen especially from the left side.  My entire point last nite while you were ranting about last nite's game not being fair to season ticketholders was this:  we did not know what the story was with Cotts.  If we believe the Daily Herald Cotts was not available.  Of course Cotts is a better option than Walker.  Last nite you said it should have been "anybody" other than Walker, now today you are saying you have no problem with bringing in a lefty, which is it?  We agree 100% that Walker should not be on this team, now he's not.  We also agree that if Cotts can't suck it up and give you 5 batters, maybe they need someone else too, and make Cotts the long man or whatever.

 

It comes down to this, Guillen needed a good situational lefthander last nite and he apparantly didn't have one.  The situation clearly called for a lefthander to be brought in (they sure as hell weren't gonna bring in Takatsu, that's another problem).  If Walker is all he's got in that situation, I agree that's a problem.  Again I ask you, what other lefthander should he have brought in, given that Cotts was unavailable?

 

As for Timo, I have thought about that and I can't see how Widger is not a better option.  But again, does it not speak to the lack of versatility on the bench?  I believe it does.  Konerko is going to get a day off Terry, what should they do, call you and ask if you're coming to the game so you don't have to watch substitutes play? 

 

I agree with you 100% that Guillen makes some goofy moves.  By the same token, he has to work with the 25 guys he is given.  The part that bothers me the most this morning is Timo is playing with a new 1B glove that isn't broken in.  WTF?  This is the major leagues, that aspect is inexcusable.

 

 

Jim, we will just disagree. There are a few things I will comment on, and we will go our own way on this one. i am not tryign to get in the last word, just trying to set my statements straight.

 

1) Ozzie is a nut ball

2) The herald is one newspaper, but that being said I heard OZzie state on the post game show that he thought marte and Cotts were overused the last 5 days. that was his reason. Not good enough for me. You have a day off, so suck up one more damn inning neil. That is my point on that.

3) I would have never used Walker in that situation. Yes I would have called on others despite the matchup of righty lefty. I called it before walker threw his forst pitch. I stand by it. You disagree, I am ok with that.

4) Tell konerko to suck it up one more day. You have an off day today. I really don't care if Ozzie wants to rest him two days. It can't be done right now because you do not have a back up foirst baseman. Wait until gload gets back then sit Konerko down for two days. SUCK IT UP.

5) Your an apologist for Ozzie. Thats your right. I think the guy is certifiable and he is winning despite it. Wait until lady luck changes.

[quickman]

I was told last nite he was hitting .356 ... ?  One of the 5% of times maybe? 

 

 

You said he was hitting 300 , I win. My point was made

[Guest JimH]

You said he was hitting 300 , I win. My point was made

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I said less than .356 but if it's important for you to win please be my guest.

[Steff]

Hmm.. Ozzie thought Neal was overused... he didn't put him in so that's Neal's fault..? Same with Konerko..?

 

Blame the players because the manager made a decision to sit them..

[RockRaines]

I was told last nite he was hitting .356 ... ?  One of the 5% of times maybe? 

The problem I had with last night was that there is a point in the ball game when you need a situational lefty to come in and s*** down lefty hitters. I dont think last night was the time, they have 4 in a row I believe and that is not a situational move. If you need to get a lefty out and you want to go to a lefty, you go to damaso, thats it. Last night I had no doubt in my mind that Cliff should have been in the game to face those guys because he can get both out and also last more than an inning. Putting in Walker, who was the tendency to walk guys, as well as give up flyballs, is not the right move, even if he is left handed. At that point in the game you go with the player that is most effective in the situation and can also take care of the next batter, and the next. As far as Gload goes, I never thought I would miss him this much, but last night was a perfect night to play Gload, with a pitcher on the mound who can throw to lefties.

[quickman]

I said less than .356 but if it's important for you to win please be my guest.

 

 

Ok I win. And no you didn't say less than you said 300. You said he went 0-4 and that dropped his average. Sorry, I will need to bring a tape recorder next time. The sat ticekts are up for grabs.

[RockRaines]

I said less than .356 but if it's important for you to win please be my guest.

hahahaI said 309 what was I thinking?

[RockRaines]

Ok I win. And no you didn't say less than you said 300. You said he went 0-4 and that dropped his average. Sorry, I will need to bring a tape recorder next time. The sat ticekts are up for grabs.

you going any days this weekend? I think im hitting friday sat and sunday

[quickman]

Hmm.. Ozzie thought Neal was overused... he didn't put him in so that's Neal's fault..? Same with Konerko..? 

 

Blame the players because the manager made a decision to sit them.. 

 

 

Actually no I was blaming ozzie, if you viewed the whole thread. but if neil did go to him and say he couldn't pitch I would blame him. But my reference was that Ozzie cost them the game. i know you like the players, I am aware of that, and your very good at taking snipets and creating your own thoughts. I think I have been very consistant in this thread that Ozzie cost them the game. My point is, if they are oveer used, suck it up and play. I really don't care if paul is tired, and I don't care if Neil pitched 1 inning the other day. Suck it up. (meant toward Ozzie)

[Guest JimH]

Jim, we will just disagree. There are a few things I will comment on, and we will go our own way on this one. i am not tryign to get in the last word, just trying to set my statements straight.

 

1) Ozzie is a nut ball

2) The herald is one newspaper, but that being said I heard OZzie state on the post game show that he thought marte and Cotts were overused the last 5 days. that was his reason. Not good enough for me. You have a day off, so suck up one more damn inning neil. That is my point on that.

3) I would have never used Walker in that situation. Yes I would have called on others despite the matchup of righty lefty. I called it before walker threw his forst pitch. I stand by it. You disagree, I am ok with that.

4) Tell konerko to suck it up one more day. You have an off day today. I really don't care if Ozzie wants to rest him two days. It can't be done right now because you do not have a back up foirst baseman. Wait until gload gets back then sit Konerko down for two days. SUCK IT UP.

5) Your an apologist for Ozzie. Thats your right. I think the guy is certifiable and he is winning despite it. Wait until lady luck changes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Points 2,3 and 4 are opinion based and our opinions are slightly different which is fine.

 

Point #5, you are off. Not a chance. I like to look at the big picture vs. burning my eyeballs out over one game. That is different than being an apologist. Who was the one saying he overworks the bullpen and has guys warming up all the time, their arms will fall off by Sept., etc. So he gives his bullpen guys a couple days off in a row, and that's wrong too. Hmmm ... ok.

 

Point #1, tough to argue with that. He is indeed different, a very different personality. Unique. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not.

 

You know as well as I do the bottom line is to get better players, or more versatile players ... hopefully both.

[quickman]

you going any days this weekend?  I think im hitting friday sat and sunday

 

 

going sunday

[DBAHO]

And I cannot beleive you bring up the name of jerry owens. Please.

You don't think he's similar to the Scott Podsednik case? It's what his 1st full season in the minors, and he's hitting over .300 in a pitchers park in AA. Better than the likes of Josh Fields.........

[quickman]

Points 2,3 and 4 are opinion based and our opinions are slightly different which is fine.

 

Point #5, you are off.  Not a chance.  I like to look at the big picture vs. burning my eyeballs out over one game.  That is different than being an apologist. Who was the one saying he overworks the bullpen and has guys warming up all the time, their arms will fall off by Sept., etc.  So he gives his bullpen guys a couple days off in a row, and that's wrong too.  Hmmm ... ok.

 

Point #1, tough to argue with that.  He is indeed different, a very different personality.  Unique.  Sometimes that's good, sometimes not.

 

You know as well as I do the bottom line is to get better players, or more versatile players ... hopefully both.

 

 

and we will get more and better players. i see it coming soon.