Jeff Brantley

[Butter Parque]

I am extremely pleased with the way Ozzie handled that idiot Jeff Brantley. Last night after the rejection of the apology, Brantley still couldn't get over monday afternoon. Whenever Ozzie was topic of discussion, all Brantley could talk about was Ozzie not bringing in his closer.

 

The fact that some s*** ass announcer is actually (not only bad mouthing) but completely upbraiding the guy's managing. It's one thing to question a managerial move and to not agree with it, but to say that it's completely wrong, it's poor managing, and that the closer should be pissed is just stupid. The fact is, Jeff Brantley and Steve Phillips haven't been on the White Sox bandwagon all year. Maybe thats a good thing, one was the worst GM of all time, and the other is a stupid redneck who makes the most simple, vague, and un-educated comments I've ever heard from an announcer. It's a good thing Steve Stone is in there to clean up the mess that is Jeff Brantley.

 

If I was Ozzie, I would have pulled out one of my notoroius tirades and bashed the guy. Unless you've been a manager or coached or been in that situation, you have no right to say something is wrong or to bad-mouth someone for their decision. You cna question it or disagree with it, but don't bash someone for it, especially not on national television.

[sec159row2]

I think the press is gonna start "baiting" ozzie, if they already haven't, just to create a story... especially come august/september if they are still on top...

[sayitaintso]

Jeff Brantley is a douche. Who cares what he says.

[skidoochic]

I think the press is gonna start "baiting" ozzie, if they already haven't, just to create a story...  especially come august/september if they are still on top...

 

I think you are right and that goes for Don Cooper as well. I just heard an interview of Coop with Mike North (on Boers & Bernstein's show) where North was just hammering away at Coop about the pitching matchups. North would compliment him on the pitchers in general then drill him about the Marte matchups. Coop didn't lose it too bad, but you could tell he was not happy about the line of questioning.

[quickman]

I am extremely pleased with the way Ozzie handled that idiot Jeff Brantley. Last night after the rejection of the apology, Brantley still couldn't get over monday afternoon. Whenever Ozzie was topic of discussion, all Brantley could talk about was Ozzie not bringing in his closer.

 

The fact that some s*** ass announcer is actually (not only bad mouthing) but completely upbraiding the guy's managing. It's one thing to question a managerial move and to not agree with it, but to say that it's completely wrong, it's poor managing, and that the closer should be pissed is just stupid. The fact is, Jeff Brantley and Steve Phillips haven't been on the White Sox bandwagon all year. Maybe thats a good thing, one was the worst GM of all time, and the other is a stupid redneck who makes the most simple, vague, and un-educated comments I've ever heard from an announcer. It's a good thing Steve Stone is in there to clean up the mess that is Jeff Brantley.

 

If I was Ozzie, I would have pulled out one of my notoroius tirades and bashed the guy. Unless you've been a manager or coached or been in that situation, you have no right to say something is wrong or to bad-mouth someone for their decision. You cna question it or disagree with it, but don't bash someone for it, especially not on national television.

 

 

I guess I am not sure I agree with you but maybe for different reasons. Its brantleys job to second guess and same with phillips. I am not defending what they say just the ability to say it. Brantley was a major league pitcher for I think 14 seasons and spent sometime as a closer, Phillips was a GM, I think that gives them some good qualifications to second guess. What if it was DJ doing the same thing? Is it better because he is a homer? I think that managers need to be thicker skinned and Ozzie needs to learn that. Having the media, weather national, or local not on your side does not do the ballclub any good. All ozzie does at that point is become Dusty baker. ozzie should have talked it over with brantley for 10 damn minutes. Then they could walk away dissagreeing. If ozzie runs away or barks at everyone second guessing him, inclduing fans, than he is in for future trouble.

[jerseysox]

Ummm, what did Brantley say that was wrong exactly?

[Texsox]

Ummm, what did Brantley say that was wrong exactly?

 

He said the same thing that 23 posters in the game thread said. Ozzie blew that move, no doubt about it.

 

Also, Brantley is or should be announcing for the out of towners who are not familiar with the team.

[nvxplorer]

I guess I am not sure I agree with you but maybe for different reasons. Its brantleys job to second guess and same with phillips. I am not defending what they say just the ability to say it. Brantley was a major league pitcher for I think 14 seasons and spent sometime as a closer, Phillips was a GM, I think that gives them some good qualifications to second guess. What if it was DJ doing the same thing? Is it better because he is a homer? I think that managers need to be thicker skinned and Ozzie needs to learn that. Having the media, weather national, or local not on your side does not do the ballclub any good. All ozzie does at that point is become Dusty baker. ozzie should have talked it over with brantley for 10 damn minutes. Then they could walk away dissagreeing. If ozzie runs away or barks at everyone second guessing him, inclduing fans, than he is in for future trouble.

Just one point about the bolded sentence. The same holds true for Ozzie. He has the right to respond in any manner he chooses.

 

This whole discussion is a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned. As long as the Sox win, I couldn't care less what is said to or by the press.

[EvilMonkey]

I think the disgust enters into this not from WHAT he said, but by how long he said it, and the apparent glee he was expressing while he said it. It wasn't just a line or two, he went off. If he would have had a similar rant about the Boston or NY managers, he would have probably been fored by the east-coast slanted sports channel. I also thought OZ made a mistake (more than one!), but Brantley crossed over the imaginary line. He also assumed that Hermie would have gotten them out 1-2-3 during his rant, which he should know better that nothing is automatic, except Konerko hitting into a 6-4-3 double play.

[quickman]

Just one point about the bolded sentence. The same holds true for Ozzie. He has the right to respond in any manner he chooses.

 

This whole discussion is a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned. As long as the Sox win, I couldn't care less what is said to or by the press.

 

 

NV I agree that ozzie has the right to respond in the way he sees fit. I don't agree with Ozzie on many things but he does have the right. I do think though that the man needs to think things through with the media. It may catch up to him. I do also agree its a non issue. Brantley is a nobody.

[mrzo2733]

Ummm, what did Brantley say that was wrong exactly?

 

Exactly. He did his job. Ozzie has had some bad games lately and he let him have it. I'm glad he did it. On the other hand, Ozzie definitely has the right to defend himself. I don't really put Brantley and Phillips in the same category. Phillips is 10 times the douchebag Brantley is.

[nitetrain8601]

I honestly think Ozzie did wrong with the Brantley situation. Brantley said nothing different than what most White Sox fans were thinking. If the Sox start losing alot, Ozzie's going to lose the protection he has from the media. I hate to agree with Jay Mariotti, but his mouth is going to get him in trouble. I mean even Doug Padilla confirmed that he says a lot of things he shouldn't be saying and he's lucky most guys don't print them. The Maggs' thing he gets a pass on IMO because it was a player who flat out attacked him first. Brantley was just doing his job by second guessing him as many Sox fans were.

[thelatinoheat_30]

First off, Brantley had a point. Even from last year, I knew Ozzie was one of the worst strategic managers in all of baseball. I hoped it'd get better w/ more experience but obviously not. Ozzie is lucky he didn't get ripped MORE for leaving buerhle in the 8th, no less the 9th. I don't care how little pitches he threw. Marte and Hermanson have been severely underused, leading to their recent subpar performances. Brantley is right on and should be commended. Also, today on ESPNews he(Brantley) said if he could pick any staff to have, he'd pick the twins, pen and starters. Also right there. He also managed to sneak in a comment, saying he might take the sox staff, but he jsut doesn't think the staff is being managed properly. I'll take it a step further. Ozzie cannot manage the TEAM properly, as shown by starting timo at first for the first time in 6 years just to give paul a day off, A DAY BEFORE AN OFF-DAY, that's just plain stupid. he coulda at least used the excuse of trying to keep timo sharp, but he wanted paul to relax. cost us 2 runs w/ that error. there should be more analyts criticizing ozzie's lack of smarts. before ozzie makes decisions based on his "gut feeling", he should use the bathroom to make sure he doesn't confuse these "gut feelings" w/ something else.

 

p.s. i do agree w/ ozzie's using of walker cause he has to use em eventually and he was decent b4 it, so i do have some support for him.

Edited June 3, 2005 by thelatinoheat_30

[nvxplorer]

NV I agree that ozzie has the right to respond in the way he sees fit. I don't agree with Ozzie on many things but he does have the right. I do think though that the man needs to think things through with the media. It may catch up to him. I do also agree its a non issue. Brantley is a nobody.

Agreed.

 

I've lost all respect for the media - all media - so I will generally side with whoever is being used/manipulated at any given moment. It would be nice if Ozzie were more skillful at this game (the media game, that is), but he's not the public relations manager, and if it takes him a few years to "wise up," that's fine by me.

 

I do respect how Ozzie deflects the attention from his players. That is admirable. The players hold him in high regard, so it's obvious he's not an asshole. And that's all that really matters - what the players think of him. Screw the incompetent, bloodthirsty reporters. (I say incompetent because I've noticed so many stories that are factually incorrect. Nothing serious - stats and such - but how good is a writer if he can't even check his facts before publishing?)

[nitetrain8601]

First off, Brantley had a point.  Even from last year, I knew Ozzie was one of the worst strategic managers in all of baseball.  I hoped it'd get better w/ more experience but obviously not.  Ozzie is lucky he didn't get ripped MORE for leaving buerhle in the 8th, no less the 9th.  I don't care how little pitches he threw.  Marte and Hermanson have been severely underused, leading to their recent subpar performances.  Brantley is right on and should be commended.  Also, today on ESPNews he(Brantley) said if he could pick any staff to have, he'd pick the twins, pen and starters.  Also right there.  He also managed to sneak in a comment, saying he might take the sox staff, but he jsut doesn't think the staff is being managed properly.  I'll take it a step further.  Ozzie cannot manage the TEAM properly, as shown by starting timo at first for the first time in 6 years just to give paul a day off, A DAY BEFORE AN OFF-DAY,  that's just plain stupid.  he coulda at least used the excuse of trying to keep timo sharp, but he wanted paul to relax.  cost us 2 runs w/ that error.  there should be more analyts criticizing ozzie's lack of smarts.  before ozzie makes decisions based on his "gut feeling", he should use the bathroom to make sure he doesn't confuse these "gut feelings" w/ something else.

 

p.s.  i do agree w/ ozzie's using of walker cause he has to use em eventually and he was decent b4 it, so i do have some support for him.

 

I agree. I'll say this. Ozzie is one hell of a motivator and player person. I think he would make a better bench coach though. He's been making bad decisions for some time. 3 pitchers in one inning(Marte, Politte, Cotts) in the 3rd game of the year with a 3 run lead.

[quickman]

First off, Brantley had a point.  Even from last year, I knew Ozzie was one of the worst strategic managers in all of baseball.  I hoped it'd get better w/ more experience but obviously not.  Ozzie is lucky he didn't get ripped MORE for leaving buerhle in the 8th, no less the 9th.  I don't care how little pitches he threw.  Marte and Hermanson have been severely underused, leading to their recent subpar performances.  Brantley is right on and should be commended.  Also, today on ESPNews he(Brantley) said if he could pick any staff to have, he'd pick the twins, pen and starters.  Also right there.  He also managed to sneak in a comment, saying he might take the sox staff, but he jsut doesn't think the staff is being managed properly.  I'll take it a step further.  Ozzie cannot manage the TEAM properly, as shown by starting timo at first for the first time in 6 years just to give paul a day off, A DAY BEFORE AN OFF-DAY,  that's just plain stupid.  he coulda at least used the excuse of trying to keep timo sharp, but he wanted paul to relax.  cost us 2 runs w/ that error.  there should be more analyts criticizing ozzie's lack of smarts.  before ozzie makes decisions based on his "gut feeling", he should use the bathroom to make sure he doesn't confuse these "gut feelings" w/ something else.

 

p.s.  i do agree w/ ozzie's using of walker cause he has to use em eventually and he was decent b4 it, so i do have some support for him.

 

 

You have a lot of arguments here that have been dealt with in other threads, but it seems at least from what you stated that Brantley is not going to let this go. I will assume this will go on for the entire year.

[nvxplorer]

First off, Brantley had a point.  Even from last year, I knew Ozzie was one of the worst strategic managers in all of baseball.  I hoped it'd get better w/ more experience but obviously not.  Ozzie is lucky he didn't get ripped MORE for leaving buerhle in the 8th, no less the 9th.  I don't care how little pitches he threw.  Marte and Hermanson have been severely underused, leading to their recent subpar performances.  Brantley is right on and should be commended.  Also, today on ESPNews he(Brantley) said if he could pick any staff to have, he'd pick the twins, pen and starters.  Also right there.  He also managed to sneak in a comment, saying he might take the sox staff, but he jsut doesn't think the staff is being managed properly.  I'll take it a step further.  Ozzie cannot manage the TEAM properly, as shown by starting timo at first for the first time in 6 years just to give paul a day off, A DAY BEFORE AN OFF-DAY,  that's just plain stupid.  he coulda at least used the excuse of trying to keep timo sharp, but he wanted paul to relax.  cost us 2 runs w/ that error.  there should be more analyts criticizing ozzie's lack of smarts.  before ozzie makes decisions based on his "gut feeling", he should use the bathroom to make sure he doesn't confuse these "gut feelings" w/ something else.

 

p.s.  i do agree w/ ozzie's using of walker cause he has to use em eventually and he was decent b4 it, so i do have some support for him.

These are all valid points, but the truth is, Ozzie doesn't take his orders from the media. Criticism is part of the game. Brantley can say what he wants, but it's meaningless. Regardless of what we fans or the media think, Ozzie will manage the way he sees fit.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but by slamming Ozzie, we are also slamming KW. Kenny did not extend Ozzie's contract because he thought Ozzie was incompetent. I have to assume quite the opposite. Now, you can take it a step further and say KW is an idiot GM, but I have much more faith in him than that. Of course, time will tell.

[thelatinoheat_30]

I agree. I'll say this. Ozzie is one hell of a motivator and player person. I think he would make a better bench coach though. He's been making bad decisions for some time. 3 pitchers in one inning(Marte, Politte, Cotts) in the 3rd game of the year with a 3 run lead.

 

yes that was another horrible game. notice how since that game that vizcaino had to suck it up, it looks like he gained weight and hasn't been the same. for the most part, relievers should pitch an inning per outing. none of this multiple pitchers per inning, if it's not necessary when they're getting the job done.

 

i also had a similar idea on ozzie. hire a real tactically sound manager and keep ozzie as the team motivator, perfect role.

[thelatinoheat_30]

These are all valid points, but the truth is, Ozzie doesn't take his orders from the media. Criticism is part of the game. Brantley can say what he wants, but it's meaningless. Regardless of what we fans or the media think, Ozzie will manage the way he sees fit.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but by slamming Ozzie, we are also slamming KW. Kenny did not extend Ozzie's contract because he thought Ozzie was incompetent. I have to assume quite the opposite. Now, you can take it a step further and say KW is an idiot GM, but I have much more faith in him than that. Of course, time will tell.

 

what you said is true but i kinda think kw was forced into keeping him w/ his popularity. basically, ozzie's too popular(and relatively cheap) to not sign, esp. w/ the lack of fan base we already have. kw's mistake was signing ozzie from day 1, shoulda gone w/ a manager w/ experience. i almost would prefer manuel. maybe i would.

[quickman]

I agree. I'll say this. Ozzie is one hell of a motivator and player person. I think he would make a better bench coach though. He's been making bad decisions for some time. 3 pitchers in one inning(Marte, Politte, Cotts) in the 3rd game of the year with a 3 run lead.

 

 

Nitetrain, I have been so angry with ozzie all day that its possible I am not seeing things through my anger. Now I know Ozzie makes the decisions but he has other coaches he relies on, should we assume they are just as guilty? What the hell are they doing on that bench. harold might need to shake up ozzie a bit. Same with Cooper, I clearly suspect this guy is making some of the decisions or at least being asked for his opinion. Maybe we really miss Joe Nossak. I would imagine that Nossak demands respect when he spoke.

[nvxplorer]

what you said is true but i kinda think kw was forced into keeping him w/ his popularity.    basically, ozzie's too popular(and relatively cheap) to not sign, esp. w/ the lack of fan base we already have.  kw's mistake was signing ozzie from day 1, shoulda gone w/ a manager w/ experience.  i almost would prefer manuel.  maybe i would.

I'll admit your speculation may be correct, but Manuel? That's where we part ways. (I realize you qualified your statement with "almost" and "maybe," but the mention of Manuel gives me nightmares.)

[toasty]

its not a broadcaster's place to second guess a manager... do you ever hear rooney and farmer do that? dont think so! ive no problem with brantley wondering why ozzie did what he did, but he's in no place to berate him that way.

 

did any of you actually read ozzie's reasonings for the matchups he used rather than hermanson? this quote is from an article on whitesox.com "With the White Sox nursing a one-run lead in the ninth inning of Monday's contest against the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Marte was called on to finish Mark Buehrle's eighth victory. Hermanson was available and warming up with Marte, but Guillen wanted to keep Los Angeles' left-handed hitting contingency of Darin Erstad, Adam Kennedy and Jeff DaVanon on the bench. Guillen also knew that Marte cruised through two innings of relief last Tuesday in Anaheim."

 

and would hermie pitching keep iguchi from making an error? NO

 

oh... and on timo @ first... yeah today is an off day, but wouldnt you appreciate an EXTRA day off if you had played all but 2 of the seasons game?

Edited June 3, 2005 by toasty

[nitetrain8601]

Nitetrain, I have been so angry with ozzie all day that its possible I am not seeing things through my anger.  Now I know Ozzie makes the decisions but he has other coaches he relies on, should we assume they are just as guilty? What the hell are they doing on that bench. harold might need to shake up ozzie a bit. Same with Cooper, I clearly suspect this guy is making some of the decisions or at least being asked for his opinion. Maybe we really miss Joe Nossak. I would imagine that Nossak demands respect when he spoke.

 

That too. Harold Baines is sleeping half the time. Cooper doesn't strike me as a guy who own up to anything. I do miss Joe Nossek. I wish he was still here. Then again, he'd probably be smacking Ozzie upside the head for thinking about doing some of the really terrible moves he does.

[Cerbaho-WG]

These are all valid points, but the truth is, Ozzie doesn't take his orders from the media. Criticism is part of the game. Brantley can say what he wants, but it's meaningless. Regardless of what we fans or the media think, Ozzie will manage the way he sees fit.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but by slamming Ozzie, we are also slamming KW. Kenny did not extend Ozzie's contract because he thought Ozzie was incompetent. I have to assume quite the opposite. Now, you can take it a step further and say KW is an idiot GM, but I have much more faith in him than that. Of course, time will tell.

 

Ozzie has the right to manage anyway he pleases, but he doesn't seem to understand the criticism that comes with the job. People can rattle off quote after quote about Ozzie will take criticism instead of the players, but whenever someone critiques any minute moves he made, he immediately turtles up and just spewing expletives to cover his ass. Teenagers do this, not people who are 40. Ozzie fails to realize that managing by your gut, instead of using splits, something I like to call common sense, you're more apt to receive flak because gut moves, when they fail, lack any backing other than, "Gee, I had a feeling Kevin Walker would hold a one run lead when he's barely pitched the last few weeks."

 

Ozzie's great at being a friend, but he's probably one of the worst managers in all of baseball; I don't care what the win and loss column suggests. Ozzie is a very, very stupid manager who fails to understand player's roles, especially in the bullpen. I mean, come on, how the f*** can you defend playing arguably the worst player in all of baseball in Timo Perez at a position he hasn't played in over half a f***ing decade. Hey Ozzie, Konerko played catcher once, what's stopping you from having Konerko play C, Widger at 3B, Crede at SS and Dye at 2B? Common f***ing sense, that's what. Then again, Hawk and DJ would still suck off Ozzie for being creative or some other horses***, which is why I enjoy listening to Rooney and Farmer more often than the two biggest cocksuckers in all of announcing.

[ptatc]

Nitetrain, I have been so angry with ozzie all day that its possible I am not seeing things through my anger.  Now I know Ozzie makes the decisions but he has other coaches he relies on, should we assume they are just as guilty? What the hell are they doing on that bench. harold might need to shake up ozzie a bit. Same with Cooper, I clearly suspect this guy is making some of the decisions or at least being asked for his opinion. Maybe we really miss Joe Nossak. I would imagine that Nossak demands respect when he spoke.

 

I truly think Ozzie has been experimenting to see who to keep on the roster for the rest of the year? He used walker in a pressure situation against lefties to see if he could handle it. Did he do it? No, go to Charlotte we need the roster spot. Why else would that be the only time he has done it. Next try, can Perez handle first. Did Ok on some, screwed up others. Is he worth the spot. Someone will need to go soon, either in a trade, release or sent down.

 

Ozzie is helping KW decide what they need for the long haul of the season. At least this is what I hope he has been doing with the bizzare moves. He may be a hothead but I don't think he is stupid.