Allow me to open a big, fat can of worms.

[RockRaines]

cool as a cucumber....just slingin' it back

Heres the answer to your question. Sox took the cubs 2 out of three, almost sweeping with a frigging Rookie making his first major league appearence. We beat them, we are better. Case Closed.

[zach61]

Who are the cubs and why do I even care? When you throw an "if" before something, then don't bother debating it. When ifs and buts are beer and beernuts, then we'd be having a party. I would rather be comparing the Sox to the Twins cause the cubs don't matter.

[RockRaines]

Who are the cubs and why do I even care? When you throw an "if" before something, then don't bother debating it. When ifs and buts are beer and beernuts, then we'd be having a party.    I would rather be comparing the Sox to the Twins cause the cubs don't matter.

[SouthsideNorthsideFan]

How is their pitching better than ours?  We have 5 guys in the rotation who have been sub-4 ERA pitchers this year, and 3 of them have been in the 3.00 range(Garland sub 3.00, Buehrle is at about 3.07, and Contreras is at 3.27).  The Sox have had 2 elite relievers this year in Politte and Hermanson, 2 solid ones in Cotts and Marte, and two not-so-hawt relievers in Shingo and Vizcaino.  The Cubs have had about no elite relievers this year whatsoever, and due to their bullpen struggles, they have lost several games that they should have won.  Not only is all of the above true, but the White Sox also have a top 3 best pitching staff, statistically, in the AL. 

 

You see, Hideaway's banking on the "have been's" becoming "has been's",

while looking towards "hope to be's" for the Cubs.

 

The Cubs are probably better than they've played, but until they can prove something (anything) lineup-wise and show they can close a game out once in while, there's absolutely no argument.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Yeah, you say this now that they've won 6 in a row? OK

 

 

6 in a row amongst some of the lesser teams of the NL no less.

 

 

:rolly

[Wedge]

The Cubs have a lot of talent on their team, but their winning stream has come against some weaker teams and Lee has been absolutely white hot. They have tremendous depth in their starting pitching, down to maybe 7 or 8 guys. They also lucked out because Perez has likely outperformed what a healthy Nomar would have done this season.

 

Don't let any Cubs fan tell you that the reason they were bad for so long was due to injuries: most of their replacements have played as well or better as the guys they have replaced. Rather, their team wasn't built right, there's too many questions in that bullpen. Dempster still has to show he can be a closer and they did trade away a valueable set-up man in Hawkins, despite his issues in Chicago. That bullpen held them back early in the season and it's going to restrict them from going the distance.

[Leonard Zelig]

How is 11-9 against 3 first place teams and our cross town rival crappy? Jesus. Talk to me about the Cubs after this month is over after they play some real teams. Remember, they haven't played the Cardinals once yet. We've got a much better record against stronger teams. Even if they are healthy, our staff has been performing better, their offense is not that good outside of Lee, and their pen is crap.

 

 

This is not true. Nomar got hurt in St. Louis. My buddy took pictures of him stretching before the game.

[kev211]

This is not true.  Nomar got hurt in St. Louis.  My buddy took pictures of him stretching before the game.

Shoulda stretched better that game lol

[Hideaway Lights]

they totally shut down a good padres team for their seventh win in a row.

[witesoxfan]

they totally shut down a good padres team for their seventh win in a row.

 

Could you slurp the Cubs cock a little more next time please?

 

kthx

[qwerty]

Could you slurp the Cubs cock a little more next time please?

 

kthx

 

Slurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp?

[Jordan4life_2007]

If the Cubs were completely healthy, they would be a better team than the Sox. Discuss.

 

 

Welcome back, Brando.

[SkokieSox]

I think it's an interesting debate, that's all. Lee is having a mammoth season, Ramirez is certainly a better 3b option than Crede, Nomar is a seriously SS upgrade, Walker is a good offensive 2b, and the Starters are really close comparitively.

Their defense up the middle is weak with those guys. That's surely worth considering knowing we've won many games from our defense.

[EvilJester99]

Their defense up the middle is weak with those guys. That's surely worth considering knowing we've won many games from our defense.

Unfortunately the Sox have lost a few due to that same defense *Cough*TIMO*Cough*

[sox-r-us]

Wood-never won 15 games

Prior-never healthy

Zambrano, pitching like last year was over his head

Maddux-done

Rusch-horrible

 

As for their lineup-they have the most unbalance and incomplete lineup in their division.  No lead-off hitter, terrible fundamentals, cant even bunt.  Their coaching is horrendous, their defense is below average, should I say more.

 

Rusch is horrible? He is 5-1 now after last night's win against a very good Padres team with an ERA of 1.96. He would have more wins if his BP was better/healthy.

 

He will not keep this up throughout the season, probably, but to say he is horrible (for a 5th starter) is just plain ignorance that you are displaying.

[Hideaway Lights]

Could you slurp the Cubs cock a little more next time please?

 

kthx

 

I was asked to let y'all know when they beat a good team like the Padres.

 

Just lettin' you know.

 

For the record, I hate the f***ing Cubs.

[sox-r-us]

I was asked to let y'all know when they beat a good team like the Padres.

 

Just lettin' you know.

 

For the record, I hate the f***ing Cubs.

 

Stop being so objective around here, Hideaway. That win last night does not count for the Cubs.

[Buehrle>Wood]

If the Cubs were completely healthy, they would be a better team than the Sox. Discuss.

ROFLMAO

 

 

You have to be kidding me.

[Hideaway Lights]

ROFLMAO

You have to be kidding me.

 

Wow, with reasoning like this, how did you possibly miss out on the National Debate circuit?

[SoxFan562004]

Personally I have a heard time looking at the "if healthy" debate because I think part of evaluating a team is the health factor. I think it's a strike against the overall Cubs argument that Hendry brought in Nomar who hasn't been healthy for 2-3 years, rely on Borowski (SP?) in the pen who was coming off an injury, and lead your rotation with Prior and Wood, who have been hurt numerous times while letting Clement go who pitches innings every year.

 

So I don't think the 2005 Cubs can be judged on an "if healthy" standard because it's not like these guys got hurt in car accidents, since many of these guys were injury prone coming into the season, and they just had history repeat.

 

Also, Cubs have no leadoff hitter, like last year, and that KILLED them in the push drive, which it will/would have done this year. When they get in close ballgames where they can't tee-off on bad pitching, they can't manufacture runs, that's a MAJOR edge to the Sox

 

It's like the argument about the Lakers last year, "if Shaq and Kobe could co-exist they would have one the championship." While that maybe true, the Lakers should have known there was a real good chance they weren't going to get along and the result that occurred was predictable.

Edited June 3, 2005 by SoxFan562004

[Buehrle>Wood]

Sorry, I'm still awestruck that you think a team with no closer, no hitting outside 1 man, no defense, no speed, a clueless manager, and still many unnamed problems could be 36-17 right now. Thats not only better than us, thats better than the Cardinals. Oh yeah, you can include the rest of the league in there as well. The ludacity of such a comment is incredible.

[kev211]

I was asked to let y'all know when they beat a good team like the Padres.

 

Just lettin' you know.

 

For the record, I hate the f***ing Cubs.

Then why did you start a thread saying the cubs are better

[Hideaway Lights]

Then why did you start a thread saying the cubs are better

 

I did not say the Cubs were better; I am simply raising the topic. As I stated, I think it's a good debate.

 

I can hate a team and still recognize their talent, believe it or not.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I did not say the Cubs were better; I am simply raising the topic. As I stated, I think it's a good debate.

 

I can hate a team and still recognize their talent, believe it or not.

No its a beyond terrible and senseless debate. Don't kid yourself.

[Hideaway Lights]

Sorry, I'm still awestruck that you think a team with no closer, no hitting outside 1 man, no defense, no speed, a clueless manager, and still many unnamed problems could be 36-17 right now. Thats not only better than us, thats better than the Cardinals. Oh yeah, you can include the rest of the league in there as well. The ludacity of such a comment is incredible.

 

Again, you seem to think that the best record after 53 games indicates who the best team in baseball is in a given year. Let's talk about the 2001 Mariners, shall we?