Eric Chavez quote...

[JUGGERNAUT]

With Dotel out for the season now Beane is in more need of a RP than a starter. They are riding a 4 gm win streak on Chavez grand slam last night.

 

If he's not conceded the ALW (10 gms out) then he'll want to trade Chavez for talent he thinks can help him win now as well as 2006. He's getting little from Swisher in RF which boosts Anderson's value to them. They spent Hudson & Mulder to revamp their rotation so their need for BMac is not as great now. They have no reasonable backup for Chavez so they would need Crede. Whether it's Marte or Politte, the greatest need for the A's right now is a solid arm to replace Dotel in the pen.

[Texsox]

It's all about upgrading without digging a hole in the 40 man roster too big to climb out of. I'm tired of leveling off peaks to fill holes.

[witesoxfan]

Please.

 

It was already known that Texas was willing to trade A-Rod with the whole Red Sox fiasco.  After that s*** fell through, he was named captain, but then the Yankees surprised everyone by trading for him.

 

It was also reported that A-Rod did not like that Showalter was the manager of the Rangers.

 

A-Rod and Chavez are two COMPLETELY different trade senarios.

 

A-Rod was coming off of a MVP season, the club knew it was a bad contract, the club WAS trying to trade him before he was traded, and the Sox can't throw money around like the Yanks.

 

How are they completely different? An overpaid player taking up roughly the same amount of his team's salary each year(about 25%, maybe a little less in Chavez's case) which is a burden to whatever else the team does financially...sounds very similar to me.

 

And while the Sox can't just bring in big contract after big contract, they do realize that if they let Konerko go after this year, along with Timo, Shingo, and Everett, they are set financially again. Chavez is getting $11 mill per, while the Sox are getting rid of $8.75 mill in Konerko, $1 in Timo, $2.5 in Shingo(not positive on that number, but I'm pretty sure that's right), along with $4 mill in Everett. They do have the money to make such a move, especially if JR were to feel that it were putting the team over the top.

 

What I'd like to know is why you ignored the fact that Billy Beane said about the exact same thing about the big 3, yet went right ahead and traded them anyways. You don't think maybe he is, you know, trying to keep the value of his player as high as it can be, considering he is hitting about .220 right now with a .600 OPS?

 

I know why you don't like the move...the guy has never put up a .900 OPS, he's never hit .290, yada yada...I quite frankly don't give a s*** about that. If he comes here, his average season with the A's(about .280 30 100 .880 I believe) could very well turn into .290 30+ 110 .900, and his defense is arguably the best in the majors leagues down at 3B...top 3 at the very least.

 

That being said, I have never said I am really for the trade, because I am almost positive of what the cost will be(atleast McCarthy), and I very much fear the use of roids...and that fear should be there. I have a lot of fear of roids in a lot of players today...even Konerko and Everett. Why the sudden decrease in numbers? Because pitchers "adjusted" to you?

 

If the price were like Anderson/Sweeney and Tracey, I would do it without thinking twice. Not that my say matters much, just that I'd rather lose an OF prospect and the second best pitching prospect who is older than most prospects at his point then the top pitching prospect who has good stuff with good command and demeanor on the mound.

[JUGGERNAUT]

How are they completely different?  An overpaid player taking up roughly the same amount of his team's salary each year(about 25%, maybe a little less in Chavez's case) which is a burden to whatever else the team does financially...sounds very similar to me. 

 

And while the Sox can't just bring in big contract after big contract, they do realize that if they let Konerko go after this year, along with Timo, Shingo, and Everett, they are set financially again.  Chavez is getting $11 mill per, while the Sox are getting rid of $8.75 mill in Konerko, $1 in Timo, $2.5 in Shingo(not positive on that number, but I'm pretty sure that's right), along with $4 mill in Everett.  They do have the money to make such a move, especially if JR were to feel that it were putting the team over the top.

 

What I'd like to know is why you ignored the fact that Billy Beane said about the exact same thing about the big 3, yet went right ahead and traded them anyways.  You don't think maybe he is, you know, trying to keep the value of his player as high as it can be, considering he is hitting about .220 right now with a .600 OPS?

 

I know why you don't like the move...the guy has never put up a .900 OPS, he's never hit .290, yada yada...I quite frankly don't give a s*** about that.  If he comes here, his average season with the A's(about .280 30 100 .880 I believe) could very well turn into .290 30+ 110 .900, and his defense is arguably the best in the majors leagues down at 3B...top 3 at the very least. 

 

That being said, I have never said I am really for the trade, because I am almost positive of what the cost will be(atleast McCarthy), and I very much fear the use of roids...and that fear should be there.  I have a lot of fear of roids in a lot of players today...even Konerko and Everett.  Why the sudden decrease in numbers?  Because pitchers "adjusted" to you? 

 

If the price were like Anderson/Sweeney and Tracey, I would do it without thinking twice.  Not that my say matters much, just that I'd rather lose an OF prospect and the second best pitching prospect who is older than most prospects at his point then the top pitching prospect who has good stuff with good command and demeanor on the mound.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why do you think Beane wants McCarthy? It makes no sense. He's re-vamped the rotation already at the cost of Hudson & Mulder. I would think he has more confidence in the guys he traded for with the aces he gave up. I think he eyes Anderson much more right now because Swisher isn't getting it done in RF for him.

Of course he eyes Crede to replace Chavez so what's his next greatest need? RP.

I think it's going to cost nothing less than Politte or Marte to pull this off.

 

As for the money I agree with you. KW is asking himself whether he thinks Chavez is a 100R, 110RBI guy on the WSox playing at the Cell. If he thinks he is then the $58M/5yr left on his contract for 2006+ amounts to Maggs money. They were willing to spend it on Maggs so why not Chavez? IMO, money on this deal is not a limiting factor.

 

RPG wise Chavez is currently next to last (Beane can not BS past that - the contract & this fact reduce his trade value substantially). But he finished 10th in 04, 28th in 03, & 29th in 02, 26th in 01, & 39th in 02. It looks like his 04 ranking was a fluke & he more likely is not a top 25 guy. Better than Koney but not as good as Maggs.

[witesoxfan]

Why do you think Beane wants McCarthy?  It makes no sense.  He's re-vamped the rotation already at the cost of Hudson & Mulder.  I would think he has more confidence in the guys he traded for with the aces he gave up. 

 

Something to do with how he has already pitched at the MLB level, and considering how poorly his guys have pitched thus far. Haren and Blanton have been awful for the A's, and while Meyer may be decent, he is still in the minor leagues.

 

It also has something to do with just collecting as much pitching as you can, because if you do, you are almost guaranteed to get a few that pitch well together eventually.

[Kalapse]

Something to do with how he has already pitched at the MLB level, and considering how poorly his guys have pitched thus far.  Haren and Blanton have been awful for the A's, and while Meyer may be decent, he is still in the minor leagues.

 

It also has something to do with just collecting as much pitching as you can, because if you do, you are almost guaranteed to get a few that pitch well together eventually.

Harden hasn't been bad (2.80 ERA, 1.18 Whip) he's just been hurt.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:11 PM)

How are they completely different?  An overpaid player taking up roughly the same amount of his team's salary each year(about 25%, maybe a little less in Chavez's case) which is a burden to whatever else the team does financially...sounds very similar to me.

 

The A's are going through their first rough season in awhile whereas Texas finished dead last for all three years that A-rod played with them. A-Rod was heading into the 4th year of a 10 year contract, and Chavez is heading into the second year of a 6 year extension.

 

Beane chose to make Chavez, not Giambi, not Tejada, his franchise player. It would look foolish for him to simply give up on a struggling Chavez in the second year of a six year deal for something small. If Beane wanted to dump a big contract just to save money, don't you think he would trade Kendall before Chavez?

 

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:11 PM)

And while the Sox can't just bring in big contract after big contract, they do realize that if they let Konerko go after this year, along with Timo, Shingo, and Everett, they are set financially again.  Chavez is getting $11 mill per, while the Sox are getting rid of $8.75 mill in Konerko, $1 in Timo, $2.5 in Shingo(not positive on that number, but I'm pretty sure that's right), along with $4 mill in Everett.  They do have the money to make such a move, especially if JR were to feel that it were putting the team over the top.

 

Essentially the 2006 payroll would be the same as this year's -Frank + Frank's buyout, Pods' raise, Rowand's raise, Uribe's raise, a new third baseman, AJ's raise, Freddy's raise, Buehrle's raise, and most likely a big raise for Jon Garland. That would push the payroll to well over $85 million. I don't see JR and Co. doing that for 2006.

 

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:11 PM)

What I'd like to know is why you ignored the fact that Billy Beane said about the exact same thing about the big 3, yet went right ahead and traded them anyways.  You don't think maybe he is, you know, trying to keep the value of his player as high as it can be, considering he is hitting about .220 right now with a .600 OPS?

When did Beane ever come out and say that him trading any of the big three was "garbage?" I recall him saying he wasn't going to trade Zito after he traded Hudson and Mulder. None of these three guys were in the second year of a six year deal. Hudson was in a walk year, and perhaps Beane was not comfortable with Mulder's health judging by his second half numbers.

 

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 07:11 PM)

I know why you don't like the move...the guy has never put up a .900 OPS, he's never hit .290, yada yada...I quite frankly don't give a s*** about that.  If he comes here, his average season with the A's(about .280 30 100 .880 I believe) could very well turn into .290 30+ 110 .900, and his defense is arguably the best in the majors leagues down at 3B...top 3 at the very least. 

I don't like the move because it's not realistic, and I know JR and Co. will not committ that much money to the franchise. It is now known that Chavez doesn't want to be here, and per the CBA, he can demand a trade because he is in the middle of a big contract. Why take a chance on a overpaid guy who doesn't want to play here?

I like building this team around pitching (just look at the results,) so I'm not comfortable in giving a non-slugger slugger's money. I rather give this imaginary money for Chavez to Mulder and Buehrle in a couple of seasons.

Edited June 4, 2005 by santo=dorf

[JUGGERNAUT]

BMac hasn't proven anything yet at the ML level. Whether Beane feels he needs BMac depends on what he's seen from their performance so far.

 

Sag rankings: Zito 19, Haren 22, Sarloos 33, Harden B-35, Blanton B-71.

Harden is a great pitcher. Time on the DL is the only reason he isn't leading the staff. Zito's lack luster year is driving his price down & may make him easy to retain for Beane. The weakest link is Blanton. But is he ready to trade his franchise player (Chavez) to upgrade that link?

 

With so many big bats leaving the A's in past yrs it would hurt the fan base to give up Chavez.

[JUGGERNAUT]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...SPGO2D33NJ1.DTL

Overlooked in Chavez' quotes is his statements about his home park.

 

Chavez: "This park sucks. It's gotten worse (for hitting balls out), I don't know how. It used to jet out to left center, and it seemed like even that one the field wanted to bring it back. It was a big park anyway; now it's borderline ridiculous.''

 

That doesn't exactly sound like a guy who has fun playing for the A's.

[DBAHO]

Beane chose to make Chavez, not Giambi, not Tejada, his franchise player.  It would look foolish for him to simply give up on a struggling Chavez in the second year of a six year deal for something small.  If Beane wanted to dump a big contract just to save money, don't you think he would trade Kendall before Chavez? 

The problem is that Beane TRADED for Kendall (don't you remember those Sox rumors in the off-season my fellow peeps?). It would be too big of hit to his ego (Flash Tizzle can fill us in on anything realted to Beane these days), for that to happen, or at least until one of their bonafide catcher prospects in actually ready.

[White Sox Josh]

Well that's to bad for Chavez because his limited no-trade clause covers these teams: Cleveland, Florida, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Montreal, Mets ,Tampa Bay and Toronto. He can't veto a trade to the Sox.

[Adam G]

Why do you think Beane wants McCarthy? 

That's like saying that if you already have a Porsche in the garage, you wouldn't want a Ferrari to park next to it. Why the hell wouldnt he?

[Frankensteiner]

Well that's to bad for Chavez because his limited no-trade clause covers these teams: Cleveland, Florida, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Montreal, Mets ,Tampa Bay and Toronto.  He can't veto a trade to the Sox.

 

Seems like a guy who wants to be in a pennant race by avoiding the small market teams. I have no idea why the Mets are on that list, other than maybe he didn't like Art Howe.

[White Sox Josh]

That's like saying that if you already have a Porsche in the garage, you wouldn't want a Ferrari to park next to it.  Why the hell wouldnt he?

I seem to remember that Kenny called up Beane over the winter to get into the bidding for Hudson and Mulder and he offered McCarthy and Beane refused.