Time to revisit the attendance concerns

[sox-r-us]

Maybe not pointless, but frustrating.

 

The fact of the matter is that there is no single solution.  Hell, none of us know the true reason either.  It's all speculation as to why attendance is low.

 

The frustrating part is that you're coming onto a forum where, like I said before, almost everybody goes to plenty of games.  You're preaching to the choir.

 

Sleepy White Sox

 

The fact of the matter is that there is no single solution to why Crede bats the way he does either? Or the way Ozzie behaves either? Or the way Timo plays baseball either? None of us know the true reason there either? Should we stop speculating that too?

 

This is a message board where opinions are solicited on everything White Sox. If there is one important factor that is responsible for whether this team can compete year after year, it will be $ and that will be based on attendance to a large degree.

[Dam8610]

My solution: Force Cubs fans, at gunpoint, to buy several hundred tickets for each game.

[nitetrain8601]

Posting hear about those things is a way of venting, I see attacks on attendance as an attack on the fans and fellow posters, which is extremly lame when you don't go to the games yourself

 

So it is okay to attack the players or call them out, but not fans when they aren't their job of showing up to the game and supporting them live? You can chant Paulie all you want at a TV screen, but they won't hear you. You chant Paulie at a couple of games and it makes a difference. Else games would just be played in empty stadiums with just cameras around and the players playing the game.

 

Attendace would help this team's payroll(notice as attendance has increased ever so slightly, the Sox have spent more money? Also, it gives the Sox more pride in what they're doing. How do you think they feel when they got more fans at the Angels/Sox series in Anaheim last week(LAA averaged 40,000 fans for the series) and then come home and see one game with good attendance. You would've thought the Sox were battling to stay out of last place.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

I just like the atmosphere.  Sox games feel like high school football games, there's nobody there.  even going to Cubs games there's a different feeling, that's why I was disappointed when I was going to go to New York for an uncle's wedding that the Yankees weren't in town.  it's just something I'd like to experience, and would be great if it were to be at Comiskey.

 

(and yes, I went to the Cubs game, last season for their last game and during June the season before.  baseball's baseball, both times was free, and I was hoping the Cubs would be tied going into the last game, just so I'd be there when their hopes were crushed.)

 

Yes, that what I was saying, it's a nice atmosphere for the fans, but I don't think it affects a team's performance (the most important thing). It obviously hasn't until this point

[DBAHO]

Can I just say it's not like the Sox brass are doing nothing to make us come to the games or anything. What about the job Brooks Boyer has done? What about the new packages and upgrades at the ballparks?

 

If you build it, they will come............. eventually.

[sox-r-us]

To all those wanting to discuss attendance:

 

What's your solution?

 

I do not know, that is why I am asking the question. I can pull out threads if you want me to from the past, but we were told in April and May that we should not worry about it then and everything would be fine come June.....so now 23K on a Fri night is fine?????

[DBAHO]

I do not know, that is why I am asking the question. I can pull out threads if you want me to from the past, but we were told in April and May that we should not worry about it then and everything would be fine come June.....so now 23K on a Fri night is fine?????

It's the friggin first week of June. Wait for the crowd over the weekend at least FFS.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Sleepy White Sox

 

The fact of the matter is that there is no single solution to why Crede bats the way he does either? Or the way Ozzie behaves either? Or the way Timo plays baseball either? None of us know the true reason there either? Should we stop speculating that too?

 

This is a message board where opinions are solicited on everything White Sox. If there is one important factor that is responsible for whether this team can compete year after year, it will be $ and that will be based on attendance to a large degree.

 

But the implication is that attendance CAN be changed, which it should, as opposed to Crede or Timo who are lost causes. We can't change how the players play, but critiquing is fair game.

 

The original post essentially calls out White Sox fans. Most of us are doing our part.

 

I ask again. Does anybody have a solution?

 

At least b****ing about Crede and Timo usually brings about solutions such as trade scenarios, changing their swing, demoting, any way to get rid of them, etc...

 

I'd like to see some examples of ways to fix the attendance problem instead of what sometimes just comes off as complaining.

[nitetrain8601]

Yes, that what I was saying, it's a nice atmosphere for the fans, but I don't think it affects a team's performance (the most important thing). It obviously hasn't until this point

 

You're right.Let's have them play in an empty stadium. I don't think Sox players would care since it doesn't help them at all. I mean that extra energy and vibe you get off a packed house means nothing. I don't think Sox fans will miss it that much anyway.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

So it is okay to attack the players or call them out, but not fans when they aren't their job of showing up to the game and supporting them live? You can chant Paulie all you want at a TV screen, but they won't hear you. You chant Paulie at a couple of games and it makes a difference. Else games would just be played in empty stadiums with just cameras around and the players playing the game.

 

Attendace would help this team's payroll(notice as attendance has increased ever so slightly, the Sox have spent more money? Also, it gives the Sox more pride in what they're doing. How do you think they feel when they got more fans at the Angels/Sox series in Anaheim last week(LAA averaged 40,000 fans for the series) and then come home and see one game with good attendance. You would've thought the Sox were battling to stay out of last place.

 

The players are getting paid millions of dollars to do their job, and I optionally spend money to support the team and salaries. I don't have a job to do, it's every fan's personal option whether he goes to a game or not

 

Pride and chants don't translate into wins

[sox-r-us]

Can I just say it's not like the Sox brass are doing nothing to make us come to the games or anything. What about the job Brooks Boyer has done? What about the new packages and upgrades at the ballparks?

 

If you build it, they will come............. eventually.

 

All the more reason for my initial question.

 

It cannot be the weather (it is June now)

 

It cannot be the school issue (see above)

 

It cannot be work traffic (this was a Friday)

 

It cannot be marketing (Boyer is doing a wonderful job now from many accounts)

 

It cannot be a lack of a winning team

 

It cannot be a lack of confidence in the fans that this team can continue to win

 

It cannot be the ball park (which has been improved by many accounts)

 

It cannot be a boring team (we make most games very exciting, win or lose)

[nitetrain8601]

It's the friggin first week of June. Wait for the crowd over the weekend at least FFS.

 

And we heard it's barely April two months ago. That excuse is out the window. Most kids are out of school. I'm taking summer classes and still have found ways. Fans aren't showing up.

 

But the implication is that attendance CAN be changed, which it should, as opposed to Crede or Timo who are lost causes.   We can't change how the players play, but critiquing is fair game.

 

The original post essentially calls out White Sox fans.  Most of us are doing our part.

 

I ask again.  Does anybody have a solution?

 

At least b****ing about Crede and Timo usually brings about solutions such as trade scenarios, changing their swing, demoting, any way to get rid of them, etc...

 

I'd like to see some examples of ways to fix the attendance problem instead of what sometimes just comes off as complaining.

 

How does it help? Does any of our ideas of changing Crede's swing or trade suggestions get to the front office or coach's office?

[DBAHO]

Can someone post how many fans we've drawn so far this season, compared to this time last year?

[AirScott]

fans are indirectly related to performance. obviously 50,000 people yelling GOOOOOOOOCH won't make him a .400 hitter, but those 50,000 people just gave the team extra money. so, why not take a risk in the off-season and SPEND? show the fans you're trying to win, sign a marquee free agent. sometimes you need to spend money to make money.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

You're right.Let's have them play in an empty stadium. I don't think Sox players would care since it doesn't help them at all. I mean that extra energy and vibe you get off a packed house means nothing. I don't think Sox fans will miss it that much anyway.

 

Players create a vibe on their own, and there have been plenty of crummy crowds, and the Sox have been winning. Bigger crowds come with better teams anyways, so there should be no worry under current circumstances with your logic. An empty stadium is quite a bit of a stretch from what I was trying to imply

[sox-r-us]

But the implication is that attendance CAN be changed, which it should, as opposed to Crede or Timo who are lost causes.   We can't change how the players play, but critiquing is fair game.

 

The original post essentially calls out White Sox fans.  Most of us are doing our part.

 

I ask again.  Does anybody have a solution?

 

At least b****ing about Crede and Timo usually brings about solutions such as trade scenarios, changing their swing, demoting, any way to get rid of them, etc...

 

I'd like to see some examples of ways to fix the attendance problem instead of what sometimes just comes off as complaining.

 

Fair enough Sleepy. I am hoping folks can come up with some examples of how to fix this. Other than everyone here going to more games of course.

[nitetrain8601]

The players are getting paid millions of dollars to do their job, and I optionally spend money to support the team and salaries. I don't have a job to do, it's every fan's personal option whether he goes to a game or not

 

Pride and chants don't translate into wins

 

I'd say as a fan of any team, it's your job to support them. Even if you were a Cubs fan I would tell you the exact same thing. It's your job as a fan to go out and support your ballclub. That's what being a fan is. Pride and chants give you that extra boost which translates into wins. That's where the phrase, "homefield advantage" comes into play. The White Sox have none of that.

[sox-r-us]

But the implication is that attendance CAN be changed, which it should, as opposed to Crede or Timo who are lost causes.   We can't change how the players play, but critiquing is fair game.

 

The original post essentially calls out White Sox fans.  Most of us are doing our part.

 

I ask again.  Does anybody have a solution?

 

At least b****ing about Crede and Timo usually brings about solutions such as trade scenarios, changing their swing, demoting, any way to get rid of them, etc...

 

I'd like to see some examples of ways to fix the attendance problem instead of what sometimes just comes off as complaining.

 

b****ing about Crede and Timo does not lead to anything that goes to anyone that it matters to. In fact quite the contrary, the more we have b****ed about Timo, the more we see him playing these days......1B???? Fock you Ozzie for making us go through that

 

So should we all stop b****ign about Timo and Crede etc etc/.....it is not like it leads to anything

[nitetrain8601]

Can someone post how many fans we've drawn so far this season, compared to this time last year?

 

Last year we didn't have an as good record. Go back and take the attendance of the last time we started this hot.

 

Players create a vibe on their own, and there have been plenty of crummy crowds, and the Sox have been winning. Bigger crowds come with better teams anyways, so there should be no worry under current circumstances with your logic. An empty stadium is quite a bit of a stretch from what I was trying to imply

 

By your logic though, an empty stadium wouldn't matter because fans don't translate into wins or losses.

[sox-r-us]

I'd say as a fan of any team, it's your job to support them. Even if you were a Cubs fan I would tell you the exact same thing. It's your job as a fan to go out and support your ballclub. That's what being a fan is. Pride and chants give you that extra boost which translates into wins. That's where the phrase, "homefield advantage" comes into play. The White Sox have none of that.

 

Excellent point nitetrain. I have only been arguing the merits of higher attendance in terms of our ability to consistently compete for the best players in the offseason. But, you bring up another great point that in a season like this, the extra fans are huge in terms of more wins than losses. With the twinkies just 3.5 games behind, we need every extra boost to win every game. And we all know we are not going to win many games by blowouts. These will all be close games, and in close games, the 12th man matters A LOT.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

How does it help? Does any of our ideas of changing Crede's swing or trade suggestions get to the front office or coach's office?

 

It helps because it's more logical than just saying our attendance sucks.

 

It helps because sound arguments are presented as opposed to complaining about attendance. There is less tension on the board.

 

Complaining about attendance when you live far away almost sounds like a personal attack on Sox fans who live here. It sometimes (not always) comes off as saying "Why aren't you doing your part?" Most of us on here do do our part.

 

 

We had the same discussion on a DePaul message board. We came up with ideas and sent it to the school. There was far less bickering.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

I'd say as a fan of any team, it's your job to support them. Even if you were a Cubs fan I would tell you the exact same thing. It's your job as a fan to go out and support your ballclub. That's what being a fan is. Pride and chants give you that extra boost which translates into wins. That's where the phrase, "homefield advantage" comes into play. The White Sox have none of that.

 

Well then I'd have to disagree with you. Supporting the team is one thing, buy it doesn't mean you have to go to the park. I don't think a fan that has season tickets can be labeled a better fan than the one who goes to 2 games a year because of financial reasons. And as far as homefield advantage in baseball, that would be what the Twins have, being used to playing in a dome or on their turf or whatever or taking away opposing teams hot water, stuff like that. The rest is all mental which shouldn't matter if home or away if you're a professional baseball player, imo.

[nvxplorer]

About the football team, contrary to popular belief, the city just doesn't give a damn about football.

 

In Chicago, baseball is a major sport and tons of people care about it. I don't think Cub fans don't get as much credit as they deserve. Their fanbase has increased knowledge of the team. I mean, I even know this one completely ditzy girl who doesn't watch any other sports who can tell me what's Aramis Ramirez's stats and stays up to watch the Cubs play the west coast games. So far, most of the Cub fans I've met this year are actually baseball smart. Even they will be the first to tell you Nomar shouldn't be starting in the ASG.

I agree with you completely about Chicago fans. Chicago is a die-hard sports town. Always has been, always will be.

 

Living out west myself, I only have the media to rely on, but as far as attending Cubs games, I read that a lot of people are there for reasons other than being a hard core fan. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't, but the neighborhood, the bars, etc., etc., all seem to suggest this is true.

 

While I remember Bears home games being blacked out years ago (many, many years ago), the baseball games have always been broadcast on TV (RIP, Harry). I don't know, but maybe in this day and age, the ballpark itself is a big factor. I can't comment on the Cell as I've never seen it, but is it possible that the park isn't a big enough attraction? Just hypothesizing here, but what if JR built the new park on the lakefront, similar to the Giants' SBC Park, for example? With the games available on cable, local TV, the internet, the proliferation of sports bars; do you think this provides a disincentive to see the games live?

 

I guess I could look it up on the Sox website, but since I'm posting, I'll ask you guys. What do seats cost nowadays? Are they overpriced? I haven't lived in Chicago since '77, but IIRC, tickets were only $5 that year. Back then, that was less than one hour's wages, on the average.

[nitetrain8601]

It helps because it's more logical than just saying our attendance sucks.

 

It helps because sound arguments are presented as opposed to complaining about attendance.  There is less tension on the board.

 

Complaining about attendance when you live far away almost sounds like a personal attack on Sox fans who live here.  It sometimes (not always) comes off as saying "Why aren't you doing your part?"  Most of us on here do do our part.

We had the same discussion on a DePaul message board.  We came up with ideas and sent it to the school.  There was far less bickering.

 

Yeah, no one came out and just said the attendance sucks. sox-r-us was trying to have a discussion about why it sucks and what will improve it because so far, everybody who said, "wait til june" was wrong.

[AirScott]

Yeah, no one came out and just said the attendance sucks. sox-r-us was trying to have a discussion about why it sucks and what will improve it because so far, everybody who said, "wait til june" was wrong.

ummmm, wait til july