White Sox looking to deal Thomas or Everett

[ISF]

Kong is expendable but who is going to take him? His numbers project him to a healthy salary next year, and his hip is only going to get worse.

 

We don't need any major pieces, I think we got a clue to what we could expect from a trade of Everett in the paper today. We'd probably be looking for a catching prospect in any deal.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Time to cut thru the obvious hate-Thomas bulls*** in this thread. For all Jurassic lovers (I like the guy as well) he's probably more of a health risk than Thomas. Let's look at their TPA since 2002-2004:

Everett 1330 vs Thomas 1601

 

Think long & hard about that given that Thomas only played 1/2 a yr in 2004. The difference between them is that Thomas is not prone to nagging injuries like Carl is. He doesn't suffer back problems or extended hamstring problems that require him to sit on the DL. He suffers fractures & broken bones. Thomas has 2 seasons in the last 3 with better than 600 TPA's. Everett has only 1.

 

Trading Thomas straight up is not an option. No one including LAA is willing to eat $18-16M for 10-9 mo of Thomas' services. The Sox are not going to offer 1 dime towards the $12M a team trading for him must pick up for 2006. So that leaves between $4-6M the Sox might eat.

 

So those saying we should trade Thomas are essentially saying it's ok for the Sox to risk everything on a more often-hurt Everett & a few million less to spend near the deadline to do so.

 

It's a ridiculous proposition.

 

Mariotti got one thing right in his article:

To get Thomas & Everett their PA it will come at the expense of all the OFers. Thomas is at least an option at 1B if he should improve in his lateral movement. Everett apparently is not.

 

Speaking of those OFers:

Pods (.287A, .367O) - He offers next to nothing in slugging. His numbers are good for a LO guy but then so are Iguchi's (.301A, .350O) & Harris' (.275A, .373O).

 

I don't think it's out of the question to bench him a game a week & get both Thomas & Everett in the lineup.

 

Rowand (.289A, .352O, .783OPS) - He's on a hot streak so it's probably best to bench him only for rest.

 

Dye (.235A, .289O, .748OPS) - He's on a bit of a hot streak as well but appears to be cooling off again. It's not out of the question to bench him a game a week to get both Thomas & Everett in the lineup.

 

As far as DH goes this is a no-brainer.

Everett (.251A, .308O, .423S) - Those are NOT good numbers for a DH.

Carl as proven his worth more in a PH role in the fact that those numbers have produced 19R, 35RBI. He has 7HR in 175AB. That's about 25AB/HR.

 

Thomas(.250A, .357O, .500S) - Those are good numbers for a DH. He's produced 3R, 2RBI, & 1HR in just 12AB. There is nothing in his first week that suggests starting Everett over him. There is nothing in his last year that suggests that either. Nor is there anything in his career to suggest it.

 

Then of course there's Koney.

Koney(.228A, .338O, .467S) - Those are NOT good numbers for a $9M 1B.

But like Everett he has proven his worth in a PH like role producing 30R, 38RBI, & 14HR with those numbers. He's averaging about 15AB/HR.

 

There is a greater likelihood of Thomas being able to play 1B the remainder of the year than there is of Carl not going on the DL again. If Carl is not an option at 1B (which appears to be the case) then keeping Thomas gives you another option to replace a struggling hitter in the lineup.

 

Finally there is the Gload factor.

He finished 2004 named AL rookie of the month for Sept. This is a big deal because it's the month of call-ups.

 

He's a solid hitter capable of going opposite field. He has a good eye & doesn't strike out often. He kills LHers. He's better D than Koney at 1B.

Quick reactions, & soft hands. He's better than Everett in the OF but possesses a weak arm.

 

Gload 2004 (.321A, .375O, .479S) - Great for a bench player. He produced 28R, 44RBI, 7HR in 234AB. Split wise he creamed LH

(.425A, .452O, .650S) & was good vs RH (.299A, .359O, .443S).

 

I'm not taking anything away from Everett but the team overall has been successful in RON (.272A, .338O, .433S). AJ have been just as effective as Everett in these sits. Several guys have done more than Everett.

Even Koney with crappy numbers has produced (.212A, .313O, .404S) has produced 21R, & 29RBI.

 

Everett has not looked good in the field this year. Every time you play him there you increase the risk of one of his nagging injuries. If the plan is now to trade away a productive AB & prospects for a solid RP then Everett is the best option for that trade. Timo has next to nothing in trade value.

[Texsox]

As always, exhaustive research and statistical work by Juggs. It also matches what my gut tells me.

[Wong & Owens]

Speaking of those OFers:

Pods (.287A, .367O) - He offers next to nothing in slugging.  His numbers are good for a LO guy but then so are Iguchi's (.301A, .350O) & Harris' (.275A, .373O).

I don't think it's out of the question to bench him a game a week & get both Thomas & Everett in the lineup.

You're removing the intangible benefits of having him on base. You take him out of the lineup, and this team is 10 wins worse, easily. You do not take a guy like this out of your lineup(especially given a lineup that is struggling to score) once a week. If you think Iguchi or Harris come even close to creating the havoc Pods does, you've had your nose in the stat books too long.

 

 

Finally there is the Gload factor. 

He finished 2004 named AL rookie of the month for Sept.  This is a big deal because it's the month of call-ups.

It means nothing. Gload, having had the benefit of being with the team all year would certainly have an advantage over rookies just called up that A)Have never seen most big league pitchers and B)Are anxious and pressing to make a good impression--never a recipe for success. It's also one measly month.

 

He's a solid hitter capable of going opposite field.  He has a good eye & doesn't strike out often.

He's struck out once every 5.5 at-bats in his career, compared to Konerko's career ratio of once per 6.6 at-bats. Is there a second Gload on the Sox that I'm not aware of? I also would not feel comfortable calling a 29 year old player with 309 career at-bats a "solid hitter."

 

He kills LHers.

He's had 47 at-bats CAREER vs. LHP. Slow down.

 

He's better than Everett in the OF but possesses a weak arm.

Again, maybe referring to the mystery Gload, because Ross Gload is one of the worst outfielders in MLB. I don't care what his stats say, I've seen enough of him to know that he is brutal in the OF. Did you watch last year's Sox-Cubs series, for example?

[tonyho7476]

Wow Juggs, always with the big time number crunching...are you actually a super-computer?

 

Anyway, there is no doubt in my mind that we need to trade Everett, while he is not hurt. Frank has showed in 1 week that he can 'get er done'.

[southsider2k5]

Time to cut thru the obvious hate-Thomas bulls*** in this thread.  For all Jurassic lovers (I like the guy as well) he's probably more of a health risk than Thomas. Let's look at their TPA since 2002-2004:

Everett  1330 vs Thomas 1601 

 

 

lol. I literally got that far, when I noticed that he intentionally left out the years that would make his numbers not work out in his favor. Way to bias the sample.

[RockRaines]

Wow Juggs, always with the big time number crunching...are you actually a super-computer?

 

Anyway, there is no doubt in my mind that we need to trade Everett, while he is not hurt.  Frank has showed in 1 week that he can 'get er done'.

What happens if Frank hurts his ankle again? I watched him in person every game since he has been back and he is still limping and stepping tenderly in the batters box on it. So if he goes down, who is our DH? Timo? Willie? Do we bring up Brian Anderson to play OF back up? We are then in a sea of question marks with horrible answers.

[Steff]

I watched him in person every game since he has been back and he is still limping and stepping tenderly in the batters box on it.  .

 

 

 

I must be missing something because he looks fine using it to me.

[RockRaines]

I must be missing something because he looks fine using it to me.

Last night, second at-bat, he swings and misses, and noticable steps gingerly on his ankle, I saw it right away, coming from someone who had ankle surgery, I worry about his re-injury.

[Chisoxfn]

If two to three weeks from now Frank is fine and is hitting the ball well than there is no doubt in my mind that I'd deal Everett.

 

I think there are other holes on this team and I have upmoth faith in Ross Gload backing up the 1b position (with Konerko sliding to DH) if Thomas were to get hurt.

 

Everett isn't playing all that grand (I think he's hurt, but who knows) and it doesn't make sense to pay him all that money on the bench when you could move him, maybe in a 3 team deal, to pick up a quality reliever and maybe free up a little more payroll to add a big bat at 3rd base or another "starting" position of need.

[Steff]

Last night, second at-bat, he swings and misses, and noticable steps gingerly on his ankle, I saw it right away, coming from someone who had ankle surgery, I worry about his re-injury.

 

 

He says it's more mental than anything. He claims he's not in any pain..

[RockRaines]

He says it's more mental than anything. He claims he's not in any pain..

Is his phone number still XXX-XXX-3535, I should call him and ask

[Steff]

Is his phone number still XXX-XXX-3535, I should call him and ask

 

 

No. Vegas number right now.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I just want to make it known I'm not advocating trading Everett. But since SS seems to think I biased the PA comparison let's look at 2000-2001.

Thomas 787 vs Everett 1010. A little more than 200PA (about 2 mo).

 

If you doubt that Everett is injury prone look at each yr of their career's:

Carl http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5073 12yrs, 4703 TPA (391 PA/yr)

Frank http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=4527 15yrs, 8493 TPA (566 PA/yr)

 

That 391 avg is no fluke. Look at how often in a season Everett's totals are near that number.

 

As for Gload you can look for negatives if you want but he flat out got the job done in 2004. He's a better bat off the bench than Timo & a fine replacement for Koney at 1B. With Thomas back Timo has ZERO value on this team.

[beck72]

If two to three weeks from now Frank is fine and is hitting the ball well than there is no doubt in my mind that I'd deal Everett. 

 

I think there are other holes on this team and I have upmoth faith in Ross Gload backing up the 1b position (with Konerko sliding to DH) if Thomas were to get hurt. 

 

Everett isn't playing all that grand (I think he's hurt, but who knows) and it doesn't make sense to pay him all that money on the bench when you could move him, maybe in a 3 team deal, to pick up a quality reliever and maybe free up a little more payroll to add a big bat at 3rd base or another "starting" position of need.

 

solid points. The bat [for 3b or a platoon type guy who could see regular time] should be someone who can hit very well vs. RHP--preferably LH.

 

Carl was supposed to provide LH power. Yet this year he's under .200 and almost [or all] of his HR's have come hitting vs. RHP. If Carl can't hit from the left side, [like he hasn't this yr] his value for the sox decreases dramatically.

[RockRaines]

Kong is expendable but who is going to take him? His numbers project him to a healthy salary next year, and his hip is only going to get worse.

 

We don't need any major pieces, I think we got a clue to what we could expect from a trade of Everett in the paper today. We'd probably be looking for a catching prospect in any deal.

Boston was shopping for a 1B, maybe we can get their SS prospect???

[Chisoxfn]

solid points. The bat [for 3b or a platoon type guy who could see regular time] should be someone who can hit very well vs. RHP--preferably LH.

 

Carl was supposed to provide LH power. Yet this year he's under .200 and almost [or all] of his HR's have come hitting vs. RHP. If Carl can't hit from the left side, [like he hasn't this yr] his value for the sox decreases dramatically.

IF you go one step farther and Frank is looking fine and Gload has came back and is playing like he did last year than I think you have to move Everett. Gload last year was a better player than Everett this year (no doubt about that in MY mind). Why pay Everett to clog the bench (not that I don't think he's valuable, but he's highly overrated and the Sox have other areas of need).

 

You deal Everett to a team looking for a bat (maybe a 3 way deal) and you find a way to get a quality reliever out of it. Whether the other team gives the prospects to a 3rd team involved or what not.

 

Then you look towards 3rd base and this will be tough. The Pads would be nuts to deal Burroughs (he may not be the prototypical 3rd baseman, power wise, but he's still a good young player) and they aren't trading him unless they get help in other areas (on the major league roster). .286, .366 OBP in a pitchers park. He'll never hit ya 20 HR's, but maybe 15 at the cell and he's a heck of a hitter. Did I mention that he's just 24.

 

Of course if there was a way to get Burroughs I'd get him. I'd give up quite a bit as well, but it would have to be a 3 team deal and I Don't know what the Pads would be looking for. Maybe the Pads want another hitter and you acquire Burroughs, they get a hitter, and that 3rd team gets Crede and Sean Tracey and Felix Diaz/Arnie Munoz. They get 3 guys with a shot to produce (and in the end, when you make deals for youngsters, I think you want guys near major league ready who will have a shot to pan out).

[beck72]

IF you go one step farther and Frank is looking fine and Gload has came back and is playing like he did last year than I think you have to move Everett.  Gload last year was a better player than Everett this year (no doubt about that in MY mind).  Why pay Everett to clog the bench (not that I don't think he's valuable, but he's highly overrated and the Sox have other areas of need).

 

You deal Everett to a team looking for a bat (maybe a 3 way deal) and you find a way to get a quality reliever out of it.  Whether the other team gives the prospects to a 3rd team involved or what not. 

 

Then you look towards 3rd base and this will be tough.  The Pads would be nuts to deal Burroughs (he may not be the prototypical 3rd baseman, power wise, but he's still a good young player) and they aren't trading him unless they get help in other areas (on the major league roster).  .286, .366 OBP in a pitchers park.  He'll never hit ya 20 HR's, but maybe 15 at the cell and he's a heck of a hitter.  Did I mention that he's just 24.

 

Of course if there was a way to get Burroughs I'd get him.  I'd give up quite a bit as well, but it would have to be a 3 team deal and I Don't know what the Pads would be looking for.  Maybe the Pads want another hitter and you acquire Burroughs, they get a hitter, and that 3rd team gets Crede and Sean Tracey and Felix Diaz/Arnie Munoz.  They get 3 guys with a shot to produce (and in the end, when you make deals for youngsters, I think you want guys near major league ready who will have a shot to pan out).

 

The key to any deals for the sox is getting guys who can add to this team. no doubt the sox want to upgrade at 3b and should be willing to overpay [within reason] to upgrade there. Everett might not get players who can add this year, as any team getting him would want him for a playoff run. So, the sox might have to trade other young players, prospects to fill the holes they really need to fill

[ChWRoCk2]

Boston was shopping for a 1B, maybe we can get their SS prospect???

maybe we could get bill mueller and mike meyers, this would help them because they could probably play payton and millar more

 

or

 

we could trade everett and crede for chavez and one of their bullpen arms, this way we wouldnt lose bmac

[beck72]

maybe we could get bill mueller and mike meyers, this would help them because they could probably play payton and millar more

 

or

 

we could trade everett and crede for chavez and one of their bullpen arms, this way we wouldnt lose bmac

 

I guess you forget to use the green font

[Chisoxfn]

The key to any deals for the sox is getting guys who can add to this team. no doubt the sox want to upgrade at 3b and should be willing to overpay [within reason] to upgrade there. Everett might not get players who can add this year, as any team getting him would want him for a playoff run. So, the sox might have to trade other young players, prospects to fill the holes they really need to fill

Thats why I think you work the 3 team angles when your dealing guys that competing teams would be interested in. Plus you mention yourself the Sox are in competition and will want everyday players back (ie major leaugers) and the Pads are in that same position. Thats why you almost have to get a 3rd team involved otherwise its hard to see a deal that would make sense from both perspectives (rarely do deals help two teams out in the short run).

 

For example, suppose the Angels want to add a DH (its been one of there big holes, but they will be getting Vladdy back) then the Sox could move Everett over for a prospect or two (nothing necessarily amazing) which could than get moved (maybe in addition to a Sox prospect, depending on how much cash they are saving) to a team out of it with a quality reliever (maybe the Mariners for Everyday Eddie, but in that case you'd have to give up some quality guys and I don't know if the Sox are going to go with that high profile of a move in terms of relief).

[RockRaines]

For example, suppose the Angels want to add a DH (its been one of there big holes, but they will be getting Vladdy back) then the Sox could move Everett over for a prospect or two (nothing necessarily amazing) which could than get moved (maybe in addition to a Sox prospect, depending on how much cash they are saving) to a team out of it with a quality reliever (maybe the Mariners for Everyday Eddie, but in that case you'd have to give up some quality guys and I don't know if the Sox are going to go with that high profile of a move in terms of relief).

UH, arent the Angels in the midst of aquiring Mike Sweeney, they will have an extra bet laying around after that.

[beck72]

Thats why I think you work the 3 team angles when your dealing guys that competing teams would be interested in.  Plus you mention yourself the Sox are in competition and will want everyday players back (ie major leaugers) and the Pads are in that same position.  Thats why you almost have to get a 3rd team involved otherwise its hard to see a deal that would make sense from both perspectives (rarely do deals help two teams out in the short run). 

 

It's too hard for my small brain to think up 3-team trades .

[Chisoxfn]

UH, arent the Angels in the midst of aquiring Mike Sweeney, they will have an extra bet laying around after that.

Hell if I know. I've been computerless for about 4 days (finally got back to civilization last night). But as an Angel fan I'd be stoked if they got Sweeney. The guy is a machine and they definately have the chips. Your right they probably would have an extra bat off the bench, but they won't have any help at 3rd base where the Sox would need it.

[beck72]

UH, arent the Angels in the midst of aquiring Mike Sweeney, they will have an extra bet laying around after that.

 

KC will try asking for Carlos Beltran type talent for Sweeney. It's likely he won't be moved until late.