White Sox want Jeff Clement

[Chisoxrd5]

Holy s***!

 

The actual draft?  When does the draft begin?  The D'Backs have the first pick, right?  If so, when are they on the clock?

 

I think the first pick is at 11:30 central time...and yes its the D'Backs. The MLB draft really doesnt have a 'clock' persay and if you listen to it on MLB.Com it is just a massive conference call where the war rooms are all connected and make pick after pick. Its good entertainment really, especially listening to Tommy Lasorda phone in the Dodger's picks.

[CWSGuy406]

Can someone, who, maybe knows more about Torra than I do, talk about him? All I can really do with these guys is read the scouting reports and stats, so I don't think I can really give a fair judgement just by looking at a statline...

[Chisoxfn]

Torra has plus stuff and kind of came out of nowhere this year. As the only legit pitcher on Umass team he's had to be a total workhorse (which is a big concern). Made some changes mechanically and its really paid off this year. Has good command and definately is a sleeper in the 1st round.

[BlackBetsy]

Re: Wade Townsend

 

I don't see how you can spend the 15th overall pick on a guy whose fastball sits between 85-89 and whose temperament projects him as a reliever. Total waste of a pick.

 

Would love to see the Sox get a great catcher out of the draft, but there's no way that Clement makes it to 15.

 

Why in the hell would they be announcing, essentially, that they want him? Very un-KW like.

[Palehosefan]

It could be just wishful thinking, or it would be a ploy to get someone else above to pick him and let someone we wanted even more to slide down to us.

[Guest JimH]

Re: Wade Townsend

 

I don't see how you can spend the 15th overall pick on a guy whose fastball sits between 85-89 and whose temperament projects him as a reliever.  Total waste of a pick.

 

Would love to see the Sox get a great catcher out of the draft, but there's no way that Clement makes it to 15. 

 

Why in the hell would they be announcing, essentially, that they want him?  Very un-KW like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

On Townsend, I'm worried about the one year layoff but I read where his most recent workouts for teams have his velocity back to where it was. I see him going to Tampa at #8 because they have been hot over this guy all spring.

 

Also I agree that Clement does not make it to #15, too many teams seem to like him, and mlb.com suggests the Indians would definitely take him at #14 if he even falls that far.

 

To me, it still looks like Carillo or Bogesevic. Either would be a fairly conservative pick and both have been good in college. If I had to name one name, I would say Cesar Carillo.

[CWSGuy406]

That's what I'm thinking, Jim. Carrillo seems like a pretty safe pick, high floor, but a low ceiling type of a guy. I'd certainly get more excited if they went with a more 'ballsy' (for lack of a better word) pick in Torra and Townsend (though Torra might be a reach), though 'ballsy' doesn't always mean smart.

 

Re: Townsend, if his velocity isn't back in the mid-low 90s, don't take him. But I (and apparently Jim, too) have read somewhere that he's got it back up to where it was. I'm not all that concerned about the year layoff (maybe I should be?), though, so that probably sways my opinion to a more pro-Townsend.

 

And, this may seem obvious, but I think the Sox are hoping that a guy like Zimmerman or Clement falls to #15 (and yes, Cerb, I realize he won't get there). If not, they'll go with Bog or Carrillo.

[Palehosefan]

I don't see anything wrong with Carillo.

 

"Carrillo throws his fastball anywhere from 90-95 mph (touching 96-97), depending on the need, and he has shown scouts the ability to maintain his velocity deep into games. His fastball has excellent sink and life down in the zone from a three-quarters arm slot, and he went more than 80 innings between home runs allowed this spring. His curveball and changeup both can be plus pitches, though he pitches off his fastball so much that he tends to lose the feel for them at times. He’s athletic and quick-armed and should always have good command. "

 

The guy has nice stuff and good control, is a proven winner, and is athletic and quick-armed. Even if he's only 6'2 165 like some think, he can put on 10 pounds of muscle in our system and be just fine.

[CWSGuy406]

PHfan, I won't mind them taking Carrillo. It's just, they don't really sound sold on his curveball or changeup, and, while they rate his fastball as a good pitch in the scouting report, it's not good enough to crack the top five for college pitcher's best fastball?

 

I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into a scouting report and a couple of articles I've read on him, but he doesn't seem like a guy who's going to end up being a top of the rotation pitcher.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't see anything wrong with Carillo.

 

"Carrillo throws his fastball anywhere from 90-95 mph (touching 96-97), depending on the need, and he has shown scouts the ability to maintain his velocity deep into games. His fastball has excellent sink and life down in the zone from a three-quarters arm slot, and he went more than 80 innings between home runs allowed this spring. His curveball and changeup both can be plus pitches, though he pitches off his fastball so much that he tends to lose the feel for them at times. He’s athletic and quick-armed and should always have good command. "

 

The guy has nice stuff and good control, is a proven winner, and is athletic and quick-armed. Even if he's only 6'2 165 like some think, he can put on 10 pounds of muscle in our system and be just fine.

 

 

[DBAHO]

No, it was nobodies fault.  Townsend wanted to go back to school to finish up his degree during the negotiation process.  He registered for classes and MLB came up with a retarded ruling that he was no longer eligible to sign with the Orioles and would have to re-enter the draft.

 

It was one of the worse decisions I've ever seen MLB make.

There was also this story;

 

The signing of Drew and Weaver leaves right-hander Wade Townsend as the only unsigned first-round pick from last year. But it was not Townsend's fault. He was selected No. 8 by Baltimore. Ownership overruled the scouts - they were set to take high school shortstop Chris Nelson, who went No. 9 to Colorado - and mandated they draft a college pitcher. Then, when the scouts agreed on Tim Diamond from Richmond, the folks upstairs again stepped in and Townsend was selected.

 

The Orioles never made a serious offer to Townsend.

[GoodAsGould]

I dont think he will ever be a top of the order rotation guy but I think he could be a solid #3 and he has a high chance of making the majors.

 

and really at his age projections of where he will be is dumb, many of the aces never projected to be aces... example being Johan Santana, hell Rich Harden was a 17th round pick and he has some of the nastiest stuff ive seen.

 

Saying a guy has no chance to be a top of the order pitcher is a little dumb when they havent thrown 1 pitch yet in the minors or majors.

[Palehosefan]

There's some hard throwers on the top 5 list. I know Joey Devine for instance checking in at #3 hit 92-96mph regularly. I would bet Carillo barely missed the list for fastball. I personally like his fastball because of the natural sink, more so than the possiblity that he might hit 95. Its also been stated that his curveball and changeup are plus pitches, he just overthrew his fastball at times. I think thats actually a good thing, much better than a pitcher that doesn't throw it enough. I'm expecting Carillo to be a 91-92 mph fastball guy with good sink, plus changeup and curveball once he learns to throw them a little more, and a pitcher that is very athletic and should be able to field his position very well. It's also been stated that he can keep his velocity deep into games, thats a huge plus in my mind because I believe that means he has already built up good arm strength and shouldn't hit a dead-arm phase like some other prospects(Garland etc).

[Guest JimH]

Very good points in this entire thread.

 

Another factor to consider, sometimes it's very tough to succeed in your own home town, the pressure can be overwhelming. Ask Ed Olczyk when he came up with the Blackhawks. I had the opportunity to talk to him about it one night long ago at an establishment ... the first three years of his career almost ate him up.

 

Not saying this would happen with Carillo or Bogesevic but it's something to consider. They both appear mentally tough and mature people for their age (maybe we should get them to post here LOL) and the Miami and Tulane programs both have tough competition.

 

To be frank I'm happy with either one. They both appear to be very good prospects and concensus #1 draft choices. When you pick in the middle, you want the closest thing to a sure bet as possible. Gamble with the later rounds.

[Chisoxfn]

That's what I'm thinking, Jim.  Carrillo seems like a pretty safe pick, high floor, but a low ceiling type of a guy.  I'd certainly get more excited if they went with a more 'ballsy' (for lack of a better word) pick in Torra and Townsend (though Torra might be a reach), though 'ballsy' doesn't always mean smart.

 

Re: Townsend, if his velocity isn't back in the mid-low 90s, don't take him.  But I (and apparently Jim, too) have read somewhere that he's got it back up to where it was.  I'm not all that concerned about the year layoff (maybe I should be?), though, so that probably sways my opinion to a more pro-Townsend.

 

And, this may seem obvious, but I think the Sox are hoping that a guy like Zimmerman or Clement falls to #15 (and yes, Cerb, I realize he won't get there).  If not, they'll go with Bog or Carrillo.

If Towsend's velocity isn't back (and everything I've read said it isn't...thats based on BA, I don't know anything on the Townsend situation except what I read there) than there is absolutely no reason to draft him, imo.

 

Now if Townsend is in fact throwing gas, that would be another story.

[GoodAsGould]

isnt Townsend's fastball really straight too? I just hear so many good stuff about this Cesar Carillo kid and the fact he is a white sox fan is just a plus. And for those people who like wins this kid is a proven winner as anyone... i mean damn he has 1 loss his whole college career and that happened this year.

[Steaming Willy Harris]

to Jeff Clement

 

I've known of him since he was a freshman at USC. I know a bunch of guys who are friends with him who went to high school with him in Marshalltown, Iowa. Those guys are sox haters and like to bash the sox every chance they get. It would only be fitting if their bud ends up in the south side.

 

[Heads22]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/colle...111clement.html

[CWSGuy406]

isnt Townsend's fastball really straight too?  I just hear so many good stuff about this Cesar Carillo kid and the fact he is a white sox fan is just a plus.  And for those people who like wins this kid is a proven winner as anyone... i mean damn he has 1 loss his whole college career and that happened this year.

 

Well, he must have been doing something right in college -- over 11 K's/9 in both years, he was obviously fooling someone...

[GoodAsGould]

Well, he must have been doing something right in college -- over 11 K's/9 in both years, he was obviously fooling someone...

 

college is a little different than the minors or majors. Hell different sport but in football how many heisman winners end up being nobodies in the NFL......

[CWSGuy406]

college is a little different than the minors or majors.  Hell different sport but in football how many heisman winners end up being nobodies in the NFL......

 

I realize that, but you're making it seem like Townsend doesn't have real good stuff -- when, by all reports, he does (EDIT: I should say, throughout his college career, he did -- I stand corrected, as it seems like his latest workouts weren't very impressive at all).

 

And, I'm warming up a lot on Torra. Here's the latest on him from BA:

 

5/22 Update: UMass ended season 16-33, but Torra's final numbers stand out: 6-3, 1.14 with 111 strikeouts in 94.2 innings against just 16 walks

 

That's extremely impressive, and he's just a spot below Carrillo now.

 

 

(One more EDIT) Jim, looks like that Broadway guy is making a lot of heads turn. Here, from BA again:

 

16. Lance Broadway, rhp, Texas Christian

HELIUM alert! 6/5 Update: Stock soaring after three straight quality starts against excellent opponents; one of draft’s best curveballs coupled with pitchability and makeup

Edited June 7, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[dasox24]

looks like that Broadway guy is making a lot of heads turn.

I think that getting Broadway is a lot more realistic now. He's ranked at #16 on BA's Draft Tracker. His stock has been skyrocketing, and you know we're gonna seriously consider him considering Dave Wilder, himself, scouted his last game, where he pitched great.

[Chisoxfn]

I think that getting Broadway is a lot more realistic now.  He's ranked at #16 on BA's Draft Tracker.  His stock has been skyrocketing, and you know we're gonna seriously consider him considering Dave Wilder, himself, scouted his last game, where he pitched great.

I think he's plan D, behind Clement, Bogu, and Carillo. One of those 4 guys will be on the board when the Sox pick.

[dasox24]

I think he's plan D, behind Clement, Bogu, and Carillo.  One of those 4 guys will be on the board when the Sox pick.

I agree. I'm just saying it's a serious possibility b/c just earlier today people were saying he was going to be a supp./2nd round pick. Now we know he'll probably go in round 1.

 

Here's a little more on Broadway from ChicagoSports.com:

NOTES: 2005 Brooks Wallace College Player of the Year Award

semi-finalist...2005 Second Team All-American by USA Today/Sports

Weekly...2005 Conference USA Pitcher of the Year...Posted a national best

tying 13 wins...Tied the all-time Conference USA record with his 13

victories...Amassed a 13-1 mark with a 1.76 ERA and struck out a league-best 135

batters...Possesses a nasty hard curve and a fastball that reaches the low

90s...Excellent frame that allows him a lot of advantages on hitters...

 

I see that he was the pitcher of the year in the same conference that Bogusevic plays in. Although, we'll never know who would've won if Bogusevic focused on pitching in college rather being a 2-way player. I'm sure Bogusevic probably finished 2nd in voting.

Edited June 7, 2005 by dasox24

[Heads22]

I totally forgot about Clement. An Iowa boy to boot. I'm swinging into his camp.