SALARY CAP AGREED ON FOR NHL!

[Wise Master Buehrle]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2080348

 

?

[Queen Prawn]

I'll believe hockey will be on in the fall when I am sitting at the computer listening to either a Canes or Sens game. (It will also mean our original honeymoon plans will go through if hockey is back.)

[CWSGuy406]

You can call the Wolves scrubs all you want to.  They win hockey games and keep their fans entertained and that's more than I can say about the Slacks.  If this were 10 years ago I would totally agree but not now.  I've wasted far too much of my money going to see the Slacks get shut out at home and skate around like they have better things to do.  Maybe some fresh faces will help matters on the enthusiasm side but half of the players you mentioned will be gone as soon as it comes time for their first big contract. 

 

Its all a question of whether I'm getting my money's worth and when I go to a Wolves game I pay half as much and I go away happy.  The last time I walked away happy from a Hawks game was back in 1996.

 

Fine, then don't go to Hawk games. I get a student discount and a ticket for $7 bucks, to see much better hockey -- whether or not you agree with it, the AHL pales in comparison to the NHL.

[Pauly8509CWS]

When the season was canceled, the talk going around was that if they managed to save the thing, they would end up instituting some new rules to allow for more offense, so the talk of rule changes has been around for some time.

 

I know, I'm speaking as a player and fan, that the rule changes being debated are unnecessary and the ones that should be changed aren't touched.

[Pauly8509CWS]

Nuke, you must have been some Hawks fan...

 

mentioning that the "final straw" was when they let Amonte go. Amonte SUCKED in the playoffs in his contract year. He had a chance to prove himself and could not do it. People talk about wanting winners and guys who can come through when it counts. TA COULDNT. I was at the playoff games against the Blues and he had plenty of opportunities to score goals. Set up by "that pussy" Zhamnov, who is a very talented player. Although I didnt agree with the Roenick deal, Zhamnov isnt as bad as you Hawk "fans" think. Basically, if letting TA go was a big hit to being a fan, then you really werent a fan at all. Because you would have known that Amonte was offered what he was worth and rejected so then he basically became a 3rd liner in Philly.

 

If watching "superstars" like Steve Maltais, who flirted with NHL teams before they realized that he was a GAY (goal a year) player, then by all means go support the Wolves.

[kapkomet]

Nuke, you must have been some Hawks fan...

 

mentioning that the "final straw" was when they let Amonte go.  Amonte SUCKED in the playoffs in his contract year.  He had a chance to prove himself and could not do it.  People talk about wanting winners and guys who can come through when it counts.  TA COULDNT.  I was at the playoff games against the Blues and he had plenty of opportunities to score goals.  Set up by "that pussy" Zhamnov, who is a very talented player.  Although I didnt agree with the Roenick deal, Zhamnov isnt as bad as you Hawk "fans" think.  Basically, if letting TA go was a big hit to being a fan, then you really werent a fan at all.  Because you would have known that Amonte was offered what he was worth and rejected so then he basically became a 3rd liner in Philly. 

 

If watching "superstars" like Steve Maltais, who flirted with NHL teams before they realized that he was a GAY (goal a year) player, then by all means go support the Wolves.

Big difference between Maltais and, say, Zhamnov. Not even in the same league.

 

The Blackhawks problem is management, not the players.

[Pauly8509CWS]

Big difference between Maltais and, say, Zhamnov.  Not even in the same league. 

 

The Blackhawks problem is management, not the players.

 

Believe me, I know that, but in all honesty, are you also saying that letting Amonte go was a huge mistake? Also, the management has done a damn good job the past two years preparing for the future. I'm excited as a Hawks fan, and as a hockey fan about the direction the hawks seem to be going.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, you must have been some Hawks fan...

 

mentioning that the "final straw" was when they let Amonte go.  Amonte SUCKED in the playoffs in his contract year.  He had a chance to prove himself and could not do it.  People talk about wanting winners and guys who can come through when it counts.  TA COULDNT.  I was at the playoff games against the Blues and he had plenty of opportunities to score goals.  Set up by "that pussy" Zhamnov, who is a very talented player.  Although I didnt agree with the Roenick deal, Zhamnov isnt as bad as you Hawk "fans" think.  Basically, if letting TA go was a big hit to being a fan, then you really werent a fan at all.  Because you would have known that Amonte was offered what he was worth and rejected so then he basically became a 3rd liner in Philly. 

 

If watching "superstars" like Steve Maltais, who flirted with NHL teams before they realized that he was a GAY (goal a year) player, then by all means go support the Wolves.

 

Yeah, I was a really big Hawks fan. You know, the kind that went to 10 or 15 games a year even though I was in High School and had classes starting at 7:30 the next morning or paying my own way through college and really couldn't afford it. The games I didn't go to I never missed on TV even though I had a lot to do.

 

First of all The Hawks didn't make the playoffs in Amonte's contract year, it was the year prior to that. Add to that the fact that the team as a whole scored 5 goals in as many games that series and got shutout 3 times. To say Amonte blew it in that series is totally not right. We ran up against a hot goaltender with a strong defense in front of him. With few real scoring threats on the 2nd 3rd and 4th lines its easy for other teams to key in on the first line and shut it down.

 

On to Zhamnov there are many reasons why I call him a pussy. Its not even that he's hurt all the time for one reason or another because a fair portion of it ( like when he got hit in the throat with a puck ) was hard luck. What really burns me up about him is I have seen many times when one of his line mates will just get railroaded into the boards and the little fairy will skate on by like nothing happened. Either that or someone would take a blatant run at him and he'd just stagger to his feet and skate away only to have it happen again on the next shift.

 

Amonte was not a 3rd liner on Philly, he played on the second line with JR and LeClair. Also, its not hard to see how he would have trouble moving up the depth chart as those Philly teams were totally stacked.

 

Losing TA wasn't the only reason I stopped being a Hawks fan it is one of a great many, that just happened to be the final straw as he was the closest thing to a star the team had and they cut him loose over.......drum roll please.....money. Then comes my favorite part where they brought over that crackhead Theoren Fleury and had the balls to tell the fans everything would be alright as he'd replace Amonte's scoring. They knew damn well that guy was a train wreck waiting to happen so they stuck a clause in his contract so they didn't have to pay him if he messed up and sure enough he crashed and Dollar Bill pocketed the cash. Total f***ing snowjob on the fans.

 

Dollar Bill Wirtz has been screwing the fans over for as long as I can remember and long before I was born. Why'd they trade Roenick? They didn't want to pay him. Why'd they trade Belfour? They didn't want to pay him. Like I said in an earlier post, all this guy cares about is making money. Winning is not a concern at all. It surprises me how he can blatantly screw the fans over and still attract enough suckers to the rink to make money. As long as this guy is running the show the only thing the few Hawks fans who still are remaining have to look forward to is more losing seasons and more players being shipped out of town when they ask for what they're worth. I refuse to subsidize that with my hard earned money.

 

Are the Wolves the greatest team in all of Hockey? Of course not. However, they actually win games, they keep the fans happy and they don't rape your wallet every time you show up.

Edited June 9, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[aboz56]

The NHL....

 

:sleep :sleep :sleep

[ChWRoCk2]

blackhawks arent going to get anywhere, but they do have some nice young players

 

about time i have something to watch on TV when hockey rolls around

[IlliniKrush]

Very excited about this news...if we can get a full season in next year, that would be spectacular.

 

If there are significant changes for next season, which i think there will be, i would bet there is a shootout at the end of overtime, and goalie's pads will be smaller - perhaps 10 inch leg pads instead of 12, etc.

 

I'm a hockey 'purist', but the shootout needs to happen to get fans back into the game. It will only be in the regular season anyway, so it's not that big of a deal. There will be some sweet breakaway moves unveiled, and it will be very entertaining.

 

NHL has a long way to go, but you have to start somewhere.

[southsider2k5]

Very excited about this news...if we can get a full season in next year, that would be spectacular.

 

If there are significant changes for next season, which i think there will be, i would bet there is a shootout at the end of overtime, and goalie's pads will be smaller - perhaps 10 inch leg pads instead of 12, etc.

 

I'm a hockey 'purist', but the shootout needs to happen to get fans back into the game. It will only be in the regular season anyway, so it's not that big of a deal. There will be some sweet breakaway moves unveiled, and it will be very entertaining.

 

NHL has a long way to go, but you have to start somewhere.

 

I have said for a while, if I could change one thing about hockey it would be the way that wins losses and ties are tallied for points. Right now there isn't much incentive to play aggressively in OT. If you went to a soccer style scoring system where wins were 3 pts, OT wins were 3 points, and OT losses were 1 point, along with ties being 1 points, you would see much more aggressive play in tie games for the last of the game and into OT. It wouldn't be this skating for one point crap. There would be incentive to win, and you wouldn't lose anything if you lost or tied.

[SuperSteve]

Eh.

[IlliniKrush]

I have said for a while, if I could change one thing about hockey it would be the way that wins losses and ties are tallied for points.  Right now there isn't much incentive to play aggressively in OT.  If you went to a soccer style scoring system where wins were 3 pts, OT wins were 3 points, and OT losses were 1 point, along with ties being 1 points, you would see much more aggressive play in tie games for the last of the game and into OT.  It wouldn't be this skating for one point crap.  There would be incentive to win, and you wouldn't lose anything if you lost or tied.

 

I would have no problem with that.

 

It's a bit more open in OT because you can't lose your point, however...so OT has been better. But it's the third period where no one does anything if it's tied.

[southsider2k5]

I would have no problem with that.

 

It's a bit more open in OT because you can't lose your point, however...so OT has been better. But it's the third period where no one does anything if it's tied.

 

Hence the giving an extra point to winning in regulation. It motivates teams not to play for OT for the last 5 minutes of regulation.

[Queen Prawn]

Fine, then don't go to Hawk games.  I get a student discount and a ticket for $7 bucks, to see much better hockey -- whether or not you agree with it, the AHL pales in comparison to the NHL.

 

As does MLB VS AAA baseball. AHL is basically AAA and ECHL is AA (basically). Yeah, there are a few has beens and never will bes, but I still enjoy AHL and ECHL.

[CWSGuy406]

As does MLB VS AAA baseball.  AHL is basically AAA and ECHL is AA (basically).  Yeah, there are a few has beens and never will bes, but I still enjoy AHL and ECHL.

 

That's the thing. I can see b****ing out Wirtz, he sucks, yeah, I think everybody knows that. But the level of hockey is nowhere near as good on the AHL level as it is in the NHL level. Even the Hawks play a much higher level of hockey than a team like the Wolves...

[Queen Prawn]

That's the thing.  I can see b****ing out Wirtz, he sucks, yeah, I think everybody knows that.  But the level of hockey is nowhere near as good on the AHL level as it is in the NHL level.  Even the Hawks play a much higher level of hockey than a team like the Wolves...

 

I won't disagree about the quality of play, but I admit there are times where I found ECHL much more exciting than NHL. Mostly because you see these guys go balls out because they WANT to make the show more than anything (I rarely see that kind of heart in the NHL - sometimes, but not as often). To each their own though on this.

[CWSGuy406]

I won't disagree about the quality of play, but I admit there are times where I found ECHL much more exciting than NHL.  Mostly because you see these guys go balls out because they WANT to make the show more than anything (I rarely see that kind of heart in the NHL - sometimes, but not as often).  To each their own though on this.

 

Fair enough.

 

Anyways, I see what you're saying about the ECHL trying harder. Back when the Hawks had guys like Korolev and Karpotsev (::shutters:, you'd see (Karp at least) dogging it a ton. Hell, Pat Foley even had like a two minute long rant on Karpotsev after he got traded. Ahh, good times...

[Pauly8509CWS]

Keith, you're right about some of the Hawks dogging it but QP suggesting that it happens alot more often is false. Watching the NHL and seeing games like when the Hawks played the Preds, were even exciting after the altercations between players like Ruutu and Legwand.

 

They play with heart, and Nuke, never did I say Amonte was the sole reason the Hakws lost but saying the Hawks ran into a hot goalie :headshake. It was BRENT JOHNSON, who, didnt have a job last season and went 5 and 5 in the playoffs, and yes, that was TA's last year with the Hawks. He was a +1 with 1 assist in 5 games, no goals on 10 shots. His point totals have actually been on the decline since 2000. He played on the THIRD line with Handzus and a mix of Kapanen and Gagne. Winning is now on the minds of Blackhawk management, and also about Zhamnov being called a pussy, he's barely 6 feet tall (although listed at 6'1) and not retaliating and trying to be a hard ass to protect other players is an awful judge of a player. Zhamnov was a classy player and the enforcer job was left up to such players as Vandenbussche and Probert when he was with the team. Now the grinding Larmer like players (Bell, Calder, Ruutu) are taking over the leadership roles and are coming into their own on offense. All three scored 20 goals last season and I wouldnt be surprised to see two of them reach the 30 goal plateau.

 

So basically, Wirtz as an owner sucks, but to suggest that you are not a fan because of the trades of three players and declining performance have me to believe that WHEN they become good again you will be the first to jump back on the bandwagon, the same type of fans me as a Sox fan, can do without, fair weather fans.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Pauly8509CWS

[CWSGuy406]

As far as shootouts go, here are pretty much my thoughts put very well into words by The Hockey News:

 

As many players and executives correctly pointed out after the All-Star Game, the NBA doesn't snap ties after the first overtime with a slam-dunk contest.  After the 10th inning in baseball, is there a home-run derby?  Do NFL games end with a quarterback throwing a ball through a tire or placekickers competing in a field-goal contest?

 

I know it's opinion vs. opinion, but it's simply not right to end a game after 65 minutes with a skills competition. How many extra fans does the NHL think it's going to draw just because the game might end on a shootout? I dunno about you guys, but I'd hate to see after 65 minutes of the Hawks fighting tooth and nail against Detroit, them go to a shootout -- Arny-Ruutu-Daze-Bell-Calder are not going to beat many teams in a shootout.

 

As far as solutions, I agree with Mike -- go with the 3-2-1-0 point system. 3 for the regulation win, 2 for the OT win, 1 for the OT loss/tie, 0 for a regulation loss. If it ends in a tie, so beit, but don't allow another team to get the extra point 'cause they have more 'skilled' players...

[Pauly8509CWS]

As far as solutions, I agree with Mike -- go with the 3-2-1-0 point system.  3 for the regulation win, 2 for the OT win, 1 for the OT loss/tie, 0 for a regulation loss.  If it ends in a tie, so beit, but don't allow another team to get the extra point 'cause they have more 'skilled' players...

 

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Keith, you're right about some of the Hawks dogging it but QP suggesting that it happens alot more often is false.  Watching the NHL and seeing games like when the Hawks played the Preds, were even exciting after the altercations between players like Ruutu and Legwand. 

 

They play with heart, and Nuke, never did I say Amonte was the sole reason the Hakws lost but saying the Hawks ran into a hot goalie  :headshake.  It was BRENT JOHNSON, who, didnt have a job last season and went 5 and 5 in the playoffs, and yes, that was TA's last year with the Hawks.  He was a +1 with 1 assist in 5 games, no goals on 10 shots.  His point totals have actually been on the decline since 2000. He played on the THIRD line with Handzus and a mix of Kapanen and Gagne.  Winning is now on the minds of Blackhawk management, and also about Zhamnov being called a pussy, he's barely 6 feet tall (although listed at 6'1) and not retaliating and trying to be a hard ass to protect other players is an awful judge of a player.  Zhamnov was a classy player and the enforcer job was left up to such players as Vandenbussche and Probert when he was with the team.  Now the grinding Larmer like players (Bell, Calder, Ruutu) are taking over the leadership roles and are coming into their own on offense.  All three scored 20 goals last season and I wouldnt be surprised to see two of them reach the 30 goal plateau.

 

So basically, Wirtz as an owner sucks, but to suggest that you are not a fan because of the trades of three players and declining performance have me to believe that WHEN they become good again you will be the first to jump back on the bandwagon, the same type of fans me as a Sox fan, can do without, fair weather fans.

 

 

Just to clarify. I am not a fair weather fan. That's just as insulting as it's inacurate. I'm a disgruntled fan who has a legitimate gripe after all that has happened in the last 10 years ( It has taken me that long to finally say enough is enough I'm not going anymore).

 

Win or lose I dont care but I will never go to another game as long as Bill Wirtz owns that team because as long as he's around all you're gonna get is the same old snowjob. Rookies will develop and become stars and then they will all skip town when they enter their prime because Dollar Bill wont pay them. Additionally, Dollar Bill will continue to make lowball offers to high quality veterans that can help the team win then lie to the fans saying "I tried to sign him but......". Its the same old song thats been playing for years now and it's not going to change anytime soon. The Blackhawks have become a farm system for the rest of the NHL under Dollar Bill's sterlingleadership.

 

You say winning is on the minds of Hawk management? I spit soda on my computer when I read that. Winning is never on the mind of this organization only the accumulation of money. Their actions over the last few years as I have outlined them make this patently clear.

 

They cleared out a lot of dead weight by getting rid of Korolev, Floppy and Zhamnov ( all of those moves were painfully necessary to be sure ) recently and what did they do with all that money? The money went straight into Bill Wirtz's pockets

 

Salaries of dead weight players:

 

Karpotsev: 3.1 Million

Korolev: 1.7 million

Sullivan: 3 million

Zhamnov: 4.5 million

 

That's 12.3 million in payroll slashed in the last year before the strike from an already lowball 31 million dollar payroll the last active season. What has been done with that money?

 

For that matter what has been done with all the money slashed from the payroll since the last playoff season in '01/'02 when their payroll was 41.5 million?

 

Is there any wonder why this team sucks ass? Is there any wonder why this team was named the worst run franchise in pro sports?

 

Here's a tip. That's YOUR ticket money going into Dollar Bill Wirtz's pockets and he's laughing at you the fans who still bother to show up and he is laughing even harder at those who still talk about being loyal to the team even as he screws you over year after year. Loyalty works 2 ways and the fans get NONE.

 

I will be a Hawks fan again when they demonstrably show that they care about winning. Until such time as that happens the Wolves are going to get my hockey dollar and Bill Wirtz can kiss my ass.

[CWSGuy406]

Nuke, by management, I believe that Tom meant Dale Tallon. And whether you choose to believe it or not, he's doing a decent job.

 

Pully and Wirtz, they suck, you're not going to get much of an argument from either of us.

 

I'm just saying some people take the whole Wolves vs. Hawks thing a little too far. The Wolves aren't better than the Hawks, neither is the AHL level of hockey. That's all I'm arguing...

Edited June 10, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, by management, I believe that Tom meant Dale Tallon.  And whether you choose to believe it or not, he's doing a decent job. 

 

Pully and Wirtz, they suck, you're not going to get much of an argument from either of us.

 

I'm just saying some people take the whole Wolves vs. Hawks thing a little too far.  The Wolves aren't better than the Hawks, neither is the AHL level of hockey.  That's all I'm arguing...

 

 

I agree that they aren't better as players but at least money isin't an issue in the minors and they are focused on winning hockey games. I am no longer a Hawks fan because I'm sick of Bill Wirtz screwing the fans over year after year. That's the crux of my argument.

 

When I refer to Hawks management BTW, I'm talking about Wirtz and his yes-man Pulford. They have all the control over what happens in Hawkdom.

Edited June 10, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND