Jabroni Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 "Secret's out: Leadoff men back in vogue" http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...t=.jsp&c_id=mlb Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, for example, is a lot of things -- brash, confident, loquacious, sometimes controversial and always competitive. One thing he isn't is stupid. So when he and White Sox general manager Kenny Williams were coming up with ways to improve on their second-half fade in 2004, Guillen suggested a new "little ball" approach. They took a classic slugger, Carlos Lee, out of their lineup by trading him to the Milwaukee Brewers for Scott Podsednik, a speedy leadoff hitter, in the offseason. It was a new approach, and so far it's working, mostly because of the stolen base. Podsednik, who ripped off a Major League-leading 70 bags last year, is leading the big leagues again with 31 steals entering Thursday's games, and the White Sox are rolling. The team leads the Majors in steals and the pressure the White Sox are putting on defenses, along with solid pitching, is resulting in win after win. "I've read where a lot of experts say that stolen bases, statistically, don't really help an offense," Podsednik said recently. "But I want [fans] to leave the ballpark thinking, 'Wow, that guy was always on base, and that guy was always in scoring position.' "That's my job. I have to use my legs to get on second base and get in scoring position for the guys behind me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuehrleTheAce Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 31? Wow, I didn't realize he'd accumulated so many already. Last I remembered he was at 23. Nice work SPod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvxplorer Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 "I've read where a lot of experts say that stolen bases, statistically, don't really help an offense," Podsednik said recently. Experts my ass. The object is to get the runner into scoring position. Stealing a base is stategically no different than bunting him along. Do the "experts" disapprove of bunting as well? Something the statistics don't reveal is the havoc on pitchers and defenses that a base stealer wreaks. I hate repeating myself, but experts my ass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 Experts my ass. The object is to get the runner into scoring position. Stealing a base is stategically no different than bunting him along. Do the "experts" disapprove of bunting as well? Something the statistics don't reveal is the havoc on pitchers and defenses that a base stealer wreaks. I hate repeating myself, but experts my ass! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And successfully stealing 2nd or even 3rd base is even more effective than bunting because obviously you don't burn an out doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvxplorer Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 05:16 PM) And successfully stealing 2nd or even 3rd base is even more effective than bunting because obviously you don't burn an out doing so. Yep. There are the CS, but in the long run, turning a single or BB into a double or triple more than makes up for it. An interesting stat that I think is directly related to the Sox style of play: While the team has not scored an overabundance of runs, they were the second to last team to be shut out. Boston still hasn't been shut out, but they don't have the record the Sox do, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 10, 2005 -> 12:16 AM) And successfully stealing 2nd or even 3rd base is even more effective than bunting because obviously you don't burn an out doing so. Yes, I do like successful stealing. When we find a way to do that without the darn unsuccessful stealing, that'll be a great strategy. Once again -- "a classic slugger, Carlos Lee". This idea that we traded Rob Deer is absurd. Carlos has decent speed, draws walks, and hits for average. He's a good all-around hitter, not "a classic slugger". The Sox learn that if you say something often enough, it becomes true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(nvxplorer @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 07:13 PM) The object is to get the runner into scoring position. Stealing a base is stategically no different than bunting him along. Do the "experts" disapprove of bunting as well? The sox are 27th of 30 teams in # of RISP AB's...http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...=39&season=2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 05:49 PM) The sox are 27th of 30 teams in # of RISP AB's...http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...=39&season=2005 Just to be clear - that statistic is number of at bats with runners in scoring position, not total number of runners in scoring position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 07:51 PM) Just to be clear - that statistic is number of at bats with runners in scoring position, not total number of runners in scoring position. correct.... Clearing them on your first try would limit your RISP ABs I suppose.... Stranding a runner at third with no outs yields you 3 RISP ABs, but you get no Runs, which is obviosly the object in baseball. You do, however, want to have more opportunites to drive in runs then we've currently had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) Thank the lord that KW pulled the trigger on that deal. Pods is the best thing that could have happened to this team. Edited June 10, 2005 by BigSqwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) A base stealer is only effective if his success rate it above 75%. Scotty has so far been around 80% for his career, so he can be classified as a productive base stealer. If Scotty can keep his OBP above .350 and keep the steal rate above 75% he's an elite leadoff man. IF the steal rate falls below 75% he's better off just staying at first. These numbers don't however take into account the affect a productive base stealer has on a pitcher. here some info about SB effectiveness: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2607 Edited June 10, 2005 by mac9001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_ventura_eternal Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Just to be clear - that statistic is number of at bats with runners in scoring position, not total number of runners in scoring position. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what a worthless statistic. the sox are 27th in the league in this stat and have the best record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I love the Pods pickup, although I wish we could have gotten it done without giving up El Caballo. Incidentally, with all this talk about avg with RISP, Caballo is leading all of MLB in RBI with 55 going into tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 09:14 PM) I love the Pods pickup, although I wish we could have gotten it done without giving up El Caballo. Incidentally, with all this talk about avg with RISP, Caballo is leading all of MLB in RBI with 55 going into tonight. I agree you could have gotten Pods for less, but it wasn't a one for one. Vizcaino and the ton of budget that turned into El Duke need to be considered. To compare speeders and bashers I like to use total bases + steals - caught steals because if the basher hits a double or more he doesn't HAVE to steal 2nd. CLee 132 + 7 - 1 = 138 Pods 62 + 31 - 9 = 84 Carlos is an offensive force, the White Sox gave up a lot to get they guys above and the trade helped both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(TLAK @ Jun 10, 2005 -> 02:28 AM) I agree you could have gotten Pods for less, but it wasn't a one for one. Vizcaino and the ton of budget that turned into El Duke need to be considered. To compare speeders and bashers I like to use total bases + steals - caught steals because if the basher hits a double or more he doesn't HAVE to steal 2nd. CLee 132 + 7 - 1 = 138 Pods 62 + 31 - 9 = 84 Carlos is an offensive force, the White Sox gave up a lot to get they guys above and the trade helped both teams. Agreed. I'm not trying to dog the trade. I'm just saying that if we could have pods leading off and el caballo still hitting 2nd or 3rd...good God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(TLAK @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 09:28 PM) I agree you could have gotten Pods for less, but it wasn't a one for one. Vizcaino and the ton of budget that turned into El Duke need to be considered. To compare speeders and bashers I like to use total bases + steals - caught steals because if the basher hits a double or more he doesn't HAVE to steal 2nd. CLee 132 + 7 - 1 = 138 Pods 62 + 31 - 9 = 84 Carlos is an offensive force, the White Sox gave up a lot to get they guys above and the trade helped both teams. If you look at it this way for giving up carlos we got pods, viz, duque, aj, and gooch. We would have never gotten duque, aj, and gooch without losing Lee's salery. Edited June 10, 2005 by ScottPodRulez22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelatinoheat_30 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 06:27 PM) Once again -- "a classic slugger, Carlos Lee". This idea that we traded Rob Deer is absurd. Carlos has decent speed, draws walks, and hits for average. He's a good all-around hitter, not "a classic slugger". The Sox learn that if you say something often enough, it becomes true? .305 avg, 30+ hrs, round 100 ribbies and THAT's not a classic slugger? then i dunno what is. plus he was prolly our best hitter last year. Edited June 10, 2005 by thelatinoheat_30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(thelatinoheat_30 @ Jun 10, 2005 -> 02:50 AM) .305 avg, 30+ hrs, round 100 ribbies and THAT's not a classic slugger? then i dunno what is. plus he was prolly our best hitter last year. I meant it as a compliment. Deer, Kittle, Sosa -- those are "classic sluggers". Pujols will best those numbers you put up, but I don't think of him as a "classic slugger". He does everything well, not just hit the ball hard. Carlos isn't THAT good, but he does many of the same things right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I love watching Pods play the game. He is the major league player that I always dreamed about being while playing little league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 10:12 PM) I love watching Pods play the game. He is the major league player that I always dreamed about being while playing little league. You couldn't hit either, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(TLAK @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 10:14 PM) You couldn't hit either, eh? Not a lick. But I could take a walk, and run like hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I wish we had simply traded Paulie instead for Pods. We would not have to get Dye that way, and we could have simply signed a Timo Martinez kinda 1B. Lee in LF, Rowand in CF, Pods in RF and Everett as reserve OF/DH. Maybe we could have played Everett at 1B by letting Paulie go too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 10:37 PM) I wish we had simply traded Paulie instead for Pods. We would not have to get Dye that way, and we could have simply signed a Timo Martinez kinda 1B. Lee in LF, Rowand in CF, Pods in RF and Everett as reserve OF/DH. Maybe we could have played Everett at 1B by letting Paulie go too.... Didnt the sox get dye before they made the trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(robin_ventura_eternal @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 08:50 PM) what a worthless statistic. the sox are 27th in the league in this stat and have the best record. I don't even know why I'm even replying to you. Sometimes you have to kick and ostrich for it to pull it's head out of the sand, I suppose. Look last season the Sox were similarly terrible. They were last in the AL in RISP ABs, but they made up for it by being the 2nd best team in baseball at hitting with RISP. They also had the most RISP HRs. Kenny recognized this problem, realized that they were unlikely to repeat their incredible RISP hitting, so the key to the offense not falling off would be systematically increasing the team's OBP, and moving guys into scoring position by other means. Hello Pods and Iguchi. The point is, it didn't fix anything. They haven't hit as well with RISP, and are experiencing a complete power outage with RISP. They have only 10 HR in that situation, on pace for an almost 50% reduction from last season. -- They're giving away outs, and playing for one run. The fact that they have the best record in baseball doesn't make any one stat insignificant simply because they have the best record in baseball. The stat points to a poor offense. And that's my point, we've won in spite of the offense. The second best ERA is baseball is the reason we've won as much as we have. Do you think it's going to stay that way all year? Maybe it will down there in the sand, but up here in the real world, I expect some regression. If we want to keep the best record in baseball, we've got to become a well rounded team, and that means having a real offense. Edited June 10, 2005 by Gene Honda Civic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jun 9, 2005 -> 08:40 PM) Didnt the sox get dye before they made the trade? Yes, they did. The way I did the numbers...Garcia and Dye were bought with Ordonez's money, while El Duque, A.J., Pods, Hermanson, and Vizcaino came from El Cabayo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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