southsider2k5 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 13, 2005 -> 12:32 PM) I don't care if they through 120 if they are still getting rocked. I was just going to say, look no further than a guy like Chris Hammond who tops out at about 80 and it still effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 (edited) I was just going to say, look no further than a guy like Chris Hammond who tops out at about 80 and it still effective. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He can get his off-speed stuff over the plate; Shingo can't this year. Since he has no control with his frisbee, he has to throw that 85 MPH meatball right over the plate. Edited June 13, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 13, 2005 -> 12:34 PM) He can get his off-speed stuff over the plate; Shingo can't this year. Since he has no control with his frisbee, he has to throw that 85 MPH meatball right over the plate. He will, Im certain he will return to form this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 13, 2005 -> 10:37 AM) He will, Im certain he will return to form this year. I was certain for the first month, now I'm not so sure. It's not like he's getting regular work in against people, with all these close games, and it's not like pitching in Coors field is the answer for him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 13, 2005 -> 12:52 PM) I was certain for the first month, now I'm not so sure. It's not like he's getting regular work in against people, with all these close games, and it's not like pitching in Coors field is the answer for him either. Actually last night would have been an interesting spot to use Shingo. He would have had a 3 run lead, and a big ballpark to pitch in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 How are we going to find innings for Brower to turn it around if we cant find innings for Shingo to turn it around? Its trading for the sake of trading, and theres no real purpose. Also doesnt Shingo have a no trade clause? Sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvxplorer Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I've watched Brower pitch about half a dozen times this year. He has been absolutely horrendous. No way would I want the Sox to pick him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2005 -> 01:07 PM) How are we going to find innings for Brower to turn it around if we cant find innings for Shingo to turn it around? Its trading for the sake of trading, and theres no real purpose. Also doesnt Shingo have a no trade clause? Sb Brower was released. He's a free agent, we'd just be signing him, not trading for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2005 -> 01:07 PM) How are we going to find innings for Brower to turn it around if we cant find innings for Shingo to turn it around? Its trading for the sake of trading, and theres no real purpose. Also doesnt Shingo have a no trade clause? Sb I cannot find shingo's supposed no trade clause anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 I cannot find shingo's supposed no trade clause anywhere. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, he doesn't have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Shingo and Tracey for Guardado maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Type in "Shingo Takatsu no trade clause" in to google and see what the first site that comes up is. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&saf...use&btnG=Search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Shingo and Tracey for Guardado maybe? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shingo has zero value right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 (edited) If you compare his 04-05 #'s he's close to Vizc. I think it's more likely Viz will perform better in the 2nd 1/2 w the Sox then Brower would. Politte, Cotts, Hermy, & Marte are solid & going no where. Best case Brower would perform slightly better than Viz has. As for Mr Zero. What a difference a yr makes. Take a look: 04 #P/IP 15.7, 1-15 pitches .154A .214O .224S 4RBI, 16-30 .262A .365O .475S 14RBI 05 #P/IP 22.4, 1-15 pitches .279A .373O .674S 7RBI, 16-30 .318A .400O .909S 7RBI Why? One stat that glares is K/9. He's gone from a 7.22 to 11.57. Typically it takes more pitches to wrack up strike outs then ground outs. Shingo is not getting the ground outs like he did in 2004. His GB/FB ratio has gone from 0.85 to 0.48. I would have to think KW, Ozzie, & Cooper see these numbers as well. Shingo is still hitting the corners but he's doing it in the middle of the zone. The upper & lower portion of the zone doesn't seem to exist this year for him. That gives the hitter a lot to cheat on. The hitter no longer has to worry about the whole zone. He just has to worry about whether he thinks a pitch will make it in the zone. Once he decides that he can just swing through the middle & his odds of hitting the ball are pretty good. For Shingo to be effective he needs to use the WHOLE zone. I don't know how you fix this but it would seem to me the first step is to try & have him throw high in the zone during warm-up's. Get him thinking high in the zone because those are more likely to generate grounders. High & inside or high & outside in the zone. Don't worry about the hitter making contact. If he concentrates on doing this he should regain his success. If the majority of his pitches are high in the zone then his mistakes will be more centered than low. I think the damage comes most when he throws low in the zone. That would explain his poor GB/FB ratio this year. I still think there is time for him to make adjustments & figure it out. A dominant Shingo in Aug is worth more than a Viz-like Brower. I'd keep Shingo unless a near-sure-thing emerges in trade. Edited June 13, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The point is if you sign Brower, you have to trade Shingo. So while the Brower part is a free agent, it is still in essence trading just to make a trade. As so many have pointed out there is no reason to believe Brower will turn it around faster than Shingo. Sorry I thought it was clear enough that the Brower part would be FA, the Shingo part would be the trade. Sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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