Another trade idea

[qwerty]

Uribe > Vizquel defensively.  I belive Uribe has more range + better arm.

 

Last year yes... this year no.

[sox-r-us]

Uribe > Vizquel defensively.  I belive Uribe has more range + better arm.

 

But if you look at my argument I am not saying we give up Uribe. In fact my argument is you play Omar against righties and Uribe against lefties. They are both hitting >0.300 against that corresponding matchup and they are both hitting

[sox-r-us]

I like the idea alot!

 

The giants would be willing to trade vizquel, because he dosent have much years left in him and there not going to win this year so they would trade there old people to get rid of salery and get some young people. Plus, vizquel might ask to be traded to a contender because he hasent won in a few years.

 

This has a much better chance of happening then chavez, a-rod, and cabera, but if vizquel wantes to play for the sox woudnt he have just signed with them in the offseason.

 

...and I woudnt be surprised if KW asked alomar to unretire and play for us lol seeing how much he loves him lol.

 

Thank you sir for the props

[mr_genius]

mr genius

 

Where/how should we upgrade our offense then? Please educate us. You know the concerns with any trade - chemistry, salary, age, prospects reqd etc

 

I am TIRED of seeing this franchise piss away a great year. That 2000 season where Schueler did nothing except bring in Charles Johnson still hurts me so much I cry every time I think of that disaster of a post season.

 

Do you realize if this Sox line up went against the Twinkies or Angels in the playoffs, they would most likely get destroyed in a short series with their ace (Santana or Colon) going twice?

 

We just got raped by Shaun Estes tonight.

 

 

well, i don't think trading for vizquel would improve our line-up that much. do you really want an old man with a 3 year contract on the team? that would lock our hands on future signings and hurt the sox in the short and long run (IMO). Do I think our current lineup is optimal? no. do I want us to go for it this year? of course. I think we should wait a little and see exactly who is going to be available. also, today was just one game... the sky is not falling. Frank should give our lineup a big boost, Dye has been warming up, Paulie will raise his average, Everett is having a good season, Pods and Iguchi are playing great. no need to make any bad trades

[sox-r-us]

I don't think his defense is the main concern, the guy has won countless gold gloves and after a down year last seaon seems to be back to his old form. The main problem is the contract. The 3 years is a deal breaker for sure, especially in Kenny's mind.

 

Let me ask you a question. Would you care for that 3rd year if this deal gave you that peace of mind that it would make it that much easier to make it to the WS> You think Kenny would have traded all the prospects that he has in the past if he cared for what happend 2 years out? Come on.....

 

Make the Giants eat all of this years contract, and it is basically a two year deal. (Didn't we do almost the same thing with Everett and Alomar two years back?)

[CWSGuy406]

Last year yes... this year no.

 

It's two months worth of data. I'd imagine by the end of the season, Uribe will end up with a better -- what is it, UZR or RF than Vizquel.

 

BTW -- Vizquel had what people called a good year last season, good for a 95 OPS+. Meanwhile, a 24-year-old Juan Uribe put up a 107 OPS+. Personally, I want Juan Uribe -- offense or no offense, and like Cheat has been saying, he seems to do better with a healthy Frank -- to be manning the SS spot into his late 20s. But I like Uribe a lot, so maybe that's just my bias speaking.

 

Mercy, I can't believe I've put so much time into a fantasy trade thread...

[sox-r-us]

The only team I could truely see as a possibly beating the sox in a short series is the Twins if every team is at full strength.  If the sox can get into the playoffs they're going to be in fantastic shape imo.  This team is built for the playoffs.

 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong I don't expect the sox to walk through the playoffs or anything if they can get there, the Twins would just worry me the most out of any possible team in the AL right now.  Of course the Angels or Orioles could beat the Sox I just believe the sox are built far better for the playoffs then those teams but that's jmo.

 

Sorry Rowand, I see us having no chance in the playoffs if we played the Angels (possible if Texas wins the division) or Minny in the 1st round.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I'm not jumping ship on Uribe as he sits @ .23something. With frank in his ear every day, he's going to hit .275 for the rest of the season, and actually walk some. He's about to become very valuable to this team. Vizquel needs a rocking chair for the next three years.

[kev211]

Let me ask you a question. Would you care for that 3rd year if this deal gave you that peace of mind that it would make it that much easier to make it to the WS>

Plus we wouldnt have to worry about Uribes offense for the next 2 years and a half.

[Kalapse]

Let me ask you a question. Would you care for that 3rd year if this deal gave you that peace of mind that it would make it that much easier to make it to the WS> You think Kenny would have traded all the prospects that he has in the past if he cared for what happend 2 years out? Come on.....

 

Make the Giants eat all of this years contract, and it is basically a two year deal. (Didn't we do almost the same thing with Everett and Alomar two years back?)

Yeah and KW also had to throw in an extra prospect or two in order to make that work.

[Rowand44]

Sorry Rowand, I see us having no chance in the playoffs if we played the Angels (possible if Texas wins the division) or Minny in the 1st round.

Can't play the Twins in the first round. Fair enough on what you said just a difference of opinion.

[Kalapse]

Plus we wouldnt have to worry about Uribes offense for the next 2 years and a half.

I don't want to move Uribe's bat out of this lineup. I see him as an extremely important player to this team. He hits the ball to all fields, has good power and can run.

[southsideirish71]

I'm not jumping ship on Uribe as he sits @ .23something. With frank in his ear every day, he's going to hit .275 for the rest of the season, and actually walk some. He's about to become very valuable to this team. Vizquel needs a rocking chair for the next three years.

 

 

Uribe has looked better. His only problem is the lack of plate discipline and being pull only. He has been making an effort to hit to all fields lately and has had a better eye. When he hits the ball though he hits nice line drives. Cruddy on the other hand is hopeless. If I had to vote, it would be Cruddy to go. He proves the ocassional home run. But he cannot string hits together, its impossible for him to.

Edited June 14, 2005 by southsideirish71

[sox-r-us]

well,  i don't think trading for vizquel would improve our line-up that much.  do you really want an old man with a 3 year contract on the team?  that would lock our hands on future signings and hurt the sox in the short and long run (IMO).  Do I think  our current lineup is optimal? no.  do I want us to go for it this year? of course. I think we should wait a little and see exactly who is going to be available.  also, today was just one game... the sky is not falling.  Frank should give our lineup a big  boost,  Dye has been warming up, Paulie will raise his average, Everett is having a good season, Pods and Iguchi are playing great.  no need to make any bad trades

 

If we give up minor prospects, what is not to like again? WHy do you care if JR s willing to spend to help put us over the top? WOuld you prefer a WS this year and then we have some problems 2 years out or would yu prefer us contending but bowing out this year and then being solid two years out but with no chance to compete

 

We finally have some stars aligned in our favor with the SPankees maybe not even competing and the Red Sox is similar trouble. Do you really believe two years from today we will have the same golden opportunity to win it all? YOu think Steinbrenner will let that happen?

 

I want to win now and this is not a big deal towards making that happen.

 

And please go ahead and project who we should trade for before you say no to Omar. Give me some names please....and be realistic.

[kev211]

I don't want to move Uribe's bat out of this lineup. I see him as an extremely important player to this team. He hits the ball to all fields, has good power and can run.

I agree if Uribe can get hot!

[sox-r-us]

I'm not jumping ship on Uribe as he sits @ .23something. With frank in his ear every day, he's going to hit .275 for the rest of the season, and actually walk some. He's about to become very valuable to this team. Vizquel needs a rocking chair for the next three years.

 

Gene

 

We can still play Uribe against lefty pitchers. And hell we can play Uribe at 3B on days when Omar is playing too.

 

Read the stats I posted again.

 

Omar against righties: 0.301

Omar against lefties: 0.197

 

Uribe against lefties: 0.357

Uribe against righties:

 

Again, how much can I be more clearer???? You platoon as per match up in playoffs to get >0.300 production out of the SS position. If Clement or Schilling is pitching, Omar starts. If Santana is pitching, Uribe starts.

[qwerty]

It's two months worth of data.  I'd imagine by the end of the season, Uribe will end up with a better -- what is it, UZR or RF than Vizquel.

 

BTW -- Vizquel had what people called a good year last season, good for a 95 OPS+.  Meanwhile, a 24-year-old Juan Uribe put up a 107 OPS+.  Personally, I want Juan Uribe -- offense or no offense, and like Cheat has been saying, he seems to do better with a healthy Frank -- to be manning the SS spot into his late 20s.  But I like Uribe a lot, so maybe that's just my bias speaking.

 

Mercy, I can't believe I've put so much time into a fantasy trade thread...

 

I think it is quite obvious that i agree with you... but their respective range factors and zone ratings have been hovering around the same place for a while. So it is still possibly that vizquel beats him out when it is all said and down but i would rather have uribe no doubt about it. In two to three years down the road this guy is gonna be a monster defensively and offensively ( for his position).

Edited June 14, 2005 by qwerty

[sox-r-us]

I don't want to move Uribe's bat out of this lineup. I see him as an extremely important player to this team. He hits the ball to all fields, has good power and can run.

 

Read my post #41

[Gene Honda Civic]

Gene

 

We can still play Uribe against lefty pitchers. And hell we can play Uribe at 3B on days when Omar is playing too.

 

Read the stats I posted again.

 

Omar against righties: 0.301

Omar against lefties: 0.197

 

Uribe against lefties: 0.357

Uribe against righties:

 

Again, how much can I be more clearer???? You platoon as per match up in playoffs to get >0.300 production out of the SS position. If Clement or Schilling is pitching, Omar starts. If Santana is pitching, Uribe starts.

That's all well and good, but how about finding somebody on the block... If you're talking SF, they've got to be prospects. Sabean likes old guys he's not getting rid of any of them.

[southsideirish71]

If we give up minor prospects, what is not to like again? WHy do you care if JR s willing to spend to help put us over the top? WOuld you prefer a WS this year and then we have some problems 2 years out or would yu prefer us contending but bowing out this year and then being solid two years out but with no chance to compete

 

We finally have some stars aligned in our favor with the SPankees maybe not even competing and the Red Sox is similar trouble. Do you really believe two years from today we will have the same golden opportunity to win it all? YOu think Steinbrenner will let that happen?

 

I want to win now and this is not a big deal towards making that happen.

 

And please go ahead and project who we should trade for before you say no to Omar. Give me some names please....and be realistic.

 

 

I would pick up Randa and put Crede on the bench. Joe Randa has similiar defensive numbers, he is a short term rental. He provides a good contact bat with experience in the AL Central. He is a line drive hitter, something we need in this lineup. He also hits to all fields. Which is exactly what we need.

 

Uribe can get better, Cruddy cannot. Uribe has shown flashes of greatness, Cruddy has shown 2 weeks of greatness over his 1400ABs.

 

I would spend the rest of the trades on pitching. Pitching is what gets you through the playoffs. Get a good closer, and a good lefty specialist. If you could get a starter and put El Duque or conteras into long relief the better.

[sox-r-us]

Yeah and KW also had to throw in an extra prospect or two in order to make that work.

 

That's fine with me. I would btet though that the Giants would not demand too much....they are the worst team in their division right now with no chane/hope to improve this or next year with that AARP team.

[Kalapse]

Read my post #41

I was addressing ScottPodRulez22's post about moving Uribe out of the lineup.

 

I understand you want to keep him in.

[southsideirish71]

Randa's most telling stat. BA with runners in scoring position and less than two outs .294. With 2 outs..... .381.

 

Keep Uribe at SS, put Joe and 2 on the bench, and get Randa. Uribe will come out of it, and Randa can keep the offense going and drive in runs when men are on instead of King to strand them.

 

Joe Credes stats with men on and less than 2 outs .250 and with 2 outs its .125.

Edited June 14, 2005 by southsideirish71

[mr_genius]

If we give up minor prospects, what is not to like again? WHy do you care if JR s willing to spend to help put us over the top? WOuld you prefer a WS this year and then we have some problems 2 years out or would yu prefer us contending but bowing out this year and then being solid two years out but with no chance to compete

 

We finally have some stars aligned in our favor with the SPankees maybe not even competing and the Red Sox is similar trouble. Do you really believe two years from today we will have the same golden opportunity to win it all? YOu think Steinbrenner will let that happen?

 

I want to win now and this is not a big deal towards making that happen.

 

And please go ahead and project who we should trade for before you say no to Omar. Give me some names please....and be realistic.

 

 

Do you really think signing Vizquel will make that much of a differance? I doubt it will... i think it would be a downgrade from Uribe (and I am not a Uribe fan). I think Vizquel will finish the season hitting about .270 and his defensive range is less than Uribe. If we want to make a trade I think it should be one that will put us over the top. As far as what prospects we would give up, it would matter on the caliber of player we were obtaining. As far as vizquel, if we had to eat his contract i would suspect the Sox would be willing to give up nothin to obtain him. They would proably recieve some token minor league player who has no chance of making the big leagues.

[RockRaines]

So, even though we coulda gotten him in the offseason, but we wouldnt give him a long contract so he went to the Giants. Now we are ok with trading for him an essentially give him the long contract we didnt want to give him. Uh....there was a reason that we didnt sign him in the first place, and I dont think we are going to rethink that thought process especially now that we found that Uribe is better defensively than we thought. Nope