front page of the wall street journal

[tonyho7476]

Same here I dont decide to go to a game untill the day of the game.

 

I don't really understand that, but I live close to the park and can really go whenver...I bought my tickets on the first day, at teh cell, and I knew i wanted Yanks, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc....and I also knew I would buy a lot of other games as the year went on...

[FlaSoxxJim]

Seriously, why couldn't the Sox sell upper deck seats for $5 a piece?

That's a long-standing argument and I think both sides are valid – the better to fill the seats versus 'cheapening the product.' I know one of the attractions of Cincinati's new park was that they were going to include a $5 dollar seat section even though other seating areas went for the saame kind of premiere prices seen at other parks. I don't know how it has worked out for them, but I'm definately on the $5 UD side of the argument. With JR at the helm, though, it's a fanciful suggestion at best anyway.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Buehrle: "I've always said that the PR department should just hand out tickets to the upper deck -- they'd at least get the money for parking."

 

SBC Yahoo DSL $14.95/mo for 12 mo's vs Comcast HSI $19.99/mo for 3 mo's. Comcast is the 800 pd gorilla in the regions they compete. It's good business to discount pricing when you have excess inventory.

 

However; managing an inventory of empty seats at the Cell is tricky. Monday night drew 32K+. I think a better approach would be to make use of coupons for concessions. Buy an UD ticket & get 2 free coupons of your choice for a food item or beverage. No $ value to the coupon. It's good for any single food item or beverage.

 

You can't play it by the same rules as the other teams because the 800 pd gorilla does exist. On a Pepsi 2-1 night at the Cell they drew only 24K. A little more than their average for the season. That means the park & the team itself are not enough to draw fans. You have to do more.

 

Now any talk of the White Sox leaving Chicago is pure nonsense. Despite being in the bottom 5 in attendance each year they are still near the middle in revenue. Chicago can w/out question continue to support 2 teams.

 

The problem of course is location. Putting all other arguments aside does it make good sense for the White Sox to continue to play in an area that has less than 20% the disposable income Wrigley does? In my opinion the answer is no. Look at the real estate values around the Cell & around Wrigley. It's no contest.

 

I don't forsee a future for the White Sox on the S-Side. Chicago is now home to 5 non-MLB teams. An Athletics class A team & 4 indies. All of them are located in the burbs & are doing well.

[Steff]

With JR at the helm, though, it's a fanciful suggestion at best anyway.

 

 

It's too bad he can convince those that make the pricing decisions to alter them..

[quade36]

my good friend wrote the article. Used a lot of data to come up with it. I even helped out trying to explain why I thought tickets don't sell as well.

 

I am talking to him throughout they day and am letting him know what you guys are saying.

[mreye]

I don't really understand that, but I live close to the park and can really go whenver...I bought my tickets on the first day, at teh cell, and I knew i wanted Yanks, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc....and I also knew I would buy a lot of other games as the year went on...

You don't have two kids and a wife that works evenings and has limited days off, do you?

[tonyho7476]

You don't have two kids and a wife that works evenings and has limited days off, do you?

 

Nope...that's why I don't understand...I live in sin with a 9-5er, just like me...

Edited June 15, 2005 by tonyho7476

[Guest JimH]

IMO, they should offer more of a discount to those willing to buy games up front. The commitment, IMO, should be rewarded more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree completely.

 

If you are willing to plan ahead and commit, you should be rewarded ... whether that's discounts, perks, whatever.

 

I totally understand people who don't know if they can make it until the last minute, but the big discounts should go to people who commit up front.

 

One thing they're doing now and always have done ... give big discounts to youth groups, especially youth baseball groups. Get kids into the upper deck at a very low cost, that's a win-win. Mondays and Tuesdays are already discount nights. You can buy the Granton coupon book and get cheap upper deck tickets. So there are lots of ways to see games on a limited budget. You may not get to see the games you want on the days you want, but that's life.

 

Another idea that might (or might not) work is this ... for day of game purchase only, make the last two sections down the upper deck foul lines a very low price, for selected games. Milwaukee and Colorado do this. In Milwaukee they sell the "Uecker Seats" for $1 day of game, in Colorado I believe it's called the "Rock Pile" for maybe $5. They are, of course, the worst seats in the house. Call them the Skyline Seats or something similar. One problem is, the White Sox may not want to deal with the extra ushers having to check tickets from people buying the cheapest seat and trying to move to UD boxes right behind home plate.

 

But come to think of it, right now UD Reserved on regular nights are $14. I could be wrong but I'm not sure how much incentive it is to cut it to let's say $7 or $5. With a family of four it might make a difference, tough to say.

 

If they did this, make the discounts greater in April and May, slightly less the other months.

 

But in general, I do not agree with cheapening the product. I do agree with discounting heavily for kids groups though.

[Steff]

UDBox behind HP is mostly season ticket holders is it not..?? IIRC Ribbie's tickets are there so he would likely know. I think there's more of an issue with them trying to get downstairs and that's the worry.

[kapkomet]

SBC Yahoo DSL $14.95/mo for 12 mo's vs Comcast HSI $19.99/mo for 3 mo's. Comcast is the 800 pd gorilla in the regions they compete. It's good business to discount pricing when you have excess inventory.

 

 

You don't say?!?

 

(I work for Comcast, but in Dallas)

 

It's an interesting business - I'll say that much.

[mreye]

Nope...that's why I don't understand...I live in sin with a 9-5er, just like me...

[retro1983hat]

I'm going Saturday and it should be close to a sell out.

As for this article, it drives me crazy because we b**** and b**** about national media coverage and when we get it, the attendance is what we get an article about.

 

I also feel it brings the team down when they get asked about attendance. It will only get worse. Next week vs. Royals, we'll be lucky to draw 70,000.

 

The Cubs being in this town makes it easy to compare and always makes us look bad. I wish the media would not do the comparison. Apples and Oranges if you ask me.

 

Truth: There are more Cub fans in the world than Sox fans

Truth: Wrigley Field is a tourist destination

Truth: You can walk out of the game and across the street to 20 bars/restaurants

Truth: On non-game days, Wrigleyville bars still have very good crowds

Truth: Attendance at Sox games is up this year

Truth: We don't get less wins or more losses if we don't fill the park up

Truth: This topic has been beaten to death

[Yossarian]

Buehrle: "I've always said that the PR department should just hand out tickets to the upper deck -- they'd at least get the money for parking."

 

SBC Yahoo DSL $14.95/mo for 12 mo's vs Comcast HSI $19.99/mo for 3 mo's.  Comcast is the 800 pd gorilla in the regions they compete.  It's good business to discount pricing when you have excess inventory. 

 

However; managing an inventory of empty seats at the Cell is tricky.  Monday night drew 32K+.  I think a better approach would be to make use of coupons for concessions.  Buy an UD ticket & get 2 free coupons of your choice for a food item or beverage.  No $ value to the coupon.  It's good for any single food item or beverage. 

 

You can't play it by the same rules as the other teams because the 800 pd gorilla does exist.  On a Pepsi 2-1 night at the Cell they drew only 24K.  A little more than their average for the season.  That means the park & the team itself are not enough to draw fans.  You have to do more. 

 

Now any talk of the White Sox leaving Chicago is pure nonsense.  Despite being in the bottom 5 in attendance each year they are still near the middle in revenue.  Chicago can w/out question continue to support 2 teams. 

 

The problem of course is location.  Putting all other arguments aside does it make good sense for the White Sox to continue to play in an area that has less than 20% the disposable income Wrigley does?  In my opinion the answer is no.  Look at the real estate values around the Cell & around Wrigley.  It's no contest. 

 

I don't forsee a future for the White Sox on the S-Side.  Chicago is now home to 5 non-MLB teams.  An Athletics class A team & 4 indies.  All of them are located in the burbs & are doing well.

Good post. Regarding the location. With the lakefront north side pretty much booked up from the Loop to Edgewater, some real estate moguls are now looking south. Parts of Chinatown, Armour Square and Bridgeport are already gentrifying. Bronzeville has great potential and that is going to happen too. The landscape around the Cell is not going to be as bleak 5 years from now, let alone ten years.

[AddisonStSox]

Cheapening the product doesn't attract "good fans", IMO.

 

Steff, you make a great point, but I have one question in reply to that.

 

Doesn't the USCF crew maintain that fans with UD tickets are restricted to the UD? If so, I believe that may weed out a lot of the unfavorable actions that come in response to these lower ticket prices. Overall, I think you would see a lot of fans upstairs purchasing concessions, making noise for their White Sox, and filling up a lot of blue (for now) empty seats.

[Steff]

Steff, you make a great point, but I have one question in reply to that.

 

Doesn't the USCF crew maintain that fans with UD tickets are restricted to the UD?  If so, I believe that may weed out a lot of the unfavorable actions that come in response to these lower ticket prices.  Overall, I think you would see a lot of fans upstairs purchasing concessions, making noise for their White Sox, and filling up a lot of blue (for now) empty seats.

 

 

They do as it does.. but it never fails.. some get down. Some lie, cheat, and steal to get to the LD... :rolly

 

Then there's the fighters..

 

Sadly that effs things up for the fans that really just want to go and enjoy the game.

[AddisonStSox]

They do as it does.. but it never fails.. some get down. Some lie, cheat, and steal to get to the LD...  :rolly

 

Then there's the fighters..

 

Sadly that effs things up for the fans that really just want to go and enjoy the game.

 

There's no doubt about that. Many times, these lower ticket prices are soley responsible for the..um, how do you say...less-intelligent fans. However, I still believe selling UD tickets for five bucks a piece would be a very productive thing. Not only would it generate a buzz about wanting fans and welcoming fans to the ballpark, but it may actually increase payroll, renovations and such as that is money pumped directly in the Sox pocketbook.

 

With that, however, the Sox may be labeled the "cheap" alternative in town and may suffer with that lower-calibur fan/trouble-maker.

 

Still, it may be something to try in the future.

[tonyho7476]

I'm getting to the point where I don't want to sit in the outfield...that's where you get the troublemakers now...

[AddisonStSox]

I'm getting to the point where I don't want to sit in the outfield...that's where you get the troublemakers now...

 

That's why we'll shove them all up in the upper-deck.

 

I mean, history shows that confining the less fortunate in one area does wonders for the community.

www.thecha.org

Edited June 15, 2005 by AddisonStSox

[Steff]

There's no doubt about that.  Many times, these lower ticket prices are soley responsible for the..um, how do you say...less-intelligent fans.  However, I still believe selling UD tickets for five bucks a piece would be a very productive thing.  Not only would it generate a buzz about wanting fans and welcoming fans to the ballpark, but it may actually increase payroll, renovations and such as that is money pumped directly in the Sox pocketbook.

 

With that, however, the Sox may be labeled the "cheap" alternative in town and may suffer with that lower-calibur fan/trouble-maker.

 

Still, it may be something to try in the future.

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said here. I just don't see it happening any time soon. Sadly.. the bad outweigh the good at this point still, IMO anyway, and I don't think they will do anything more than they are for a while. As it is.. there really are a lot of promo's. We had a link up.. but I know WSI has the master promo code list on their site. There really are a lot.

[AddisonStSox]

I don't disagree with anything you've said here. I just don't see it happening any time soon. Sadly.. the bad outweigh the good at this point still, IMO anyway, and I don't think they will do anything more than they are for a while. As it is.. there really are a lot of promo's. We had a link up.. but I know WSI has the master promo code list on their site. There really are a lot.

 

Ultimately, this it what it all comes down to.

 

Sad, but true.

[RockRaines]

That's a long-standing argument and I think both sides are valid – the better to fill the seats versus 'cheapening the product.'  I know one of the attractions of Cincinati's new park was that they were going to include a $5 dollar seat section even though other seating areas went for the saame kind of premiere prices seen at other parks.  I don't know how it has worked out for them, but I'm definately on the $5 UD side of the argument.  With JR at the helm, though, it's a fanciful suggestion at best anyway.

the upper six at the great american ballpark have been 6 bucks or so, and we went to alot of games that way and moved down, its a great way to go to a game because we got in for cheap and bought way more food and drinks.

[Middle Buffalo]

Since the attendance comparison is really always made in relation to the Cubs, here's the history of attendance at Wrigley. Their attendance can ultimately be linked to winning in 1984, Harry, becoming a tourist destination, and the rejuvination of the area. Before 1984, Wrigley attendance was not so great. I get sick of hearing about how loyal their fans are. I remember late 70's/early 80's when portions of the upper deck were roped off because they didn't want to pay ushers to work sections with just a handful of people. Too bad all the columnists don't take the time to do a little research. They'd rather write about a stupid effing goat and attend the day games.

 

Chicago Cubs

attendance at

Wrigley Field

2004 3,170,154

2003 2,962,630

2002 2,693,096

2001 2,779,465

2000 2,789,511

1999 2,813,854

1998 2,623,194

1997 2,190,308

1996 2,219,110

1995 1,918,265

1994 1,845,208

1993 2,653,763

1992 2,126,720

1991 2,314,250

1990 2,243,791

1989 2,491,942

1988 2,089,034

1987 2,035,130

1986 1,859,102

1985 2,161,534

1984 2,107,655

1983 1,479,717

1982 1,249,278

1981 565,637

1980 1,206,776

1979 1,648,587

1978 1,525,311

1977 1,439,834

1976 1,026,217

1975 1,034,819

1974 1,015,378

1973 1,351,705

1972 1,299,163

1971 1,653,007

1970 1,642,705

1969 1,674,993

1968 1,043,409

1967 977,226

1966 635,891

1965 641,361

1964 751,647

1963 979,551

1962 609,802

1961 673,057

1960 809,770

1959 858,255

1958 979,904

1957 670,629

1956 720,118

1955 875,800

1954 748,183

1953 763,658

1952 1,024,826

1951 894,415

1950 1,165,944

1949 1,143,139

1948 1,237,792

1947 1,364,039

1946 1,342,970

1945 1,036,386

1944 640,110

1943 508,247

1942 590,972

1941 545,159

1940 534,878

1939 726,663

1938 951,640

1937 895,020

1936 699,370

1935 692,604

1934 707,525

1933 594,112

1932 974,688

1931 1,086,422

1930 1,463,624

1929 1,485,166

1928 1,143,740

1927 1,159,168

1926 885,063

1925 622,610

1924 716,922

1923 703,705

1922 542,283

1921 410,107

1920 480,783

1919 424,430

1918 337,256

1917 360,218

1916 453,685

Attendance figures

courtesy of Total

Baseball

[JUGGERNAUT]

Good post. Regarding the location. With the lakefront north side pretty much booked up from the Loop to Edgewater, some real estate moguls are now looking south. Parts of Chinatown, Armour Square and Bridgeport are already gentrifying. Bronzeville has great potential and that is going to happen too. The landscape around the Cell is not going to be as bleak 5 years from now, let alone ten years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand what you are saying & I don't doubt that the area will improve in the outlying areas around the park. But with respect to the Cell itself the WSJ hit the nail right on the head : a rusted wall to the N, train tracks to the W, low-income housing to the S, & the Ryan expressway to the E. What is going to change that picture in the next 5-10 yrs? You can't move the new homes that were built with the new park & you can't move the Ryan. So that leaves you the train tracks & the north. I could see hope in Metra built a nice station there with places to eat & drink inside it but it won't happen without Daley lobbying for the effort & he's yet to do that. Maybe getting to the WS would change that. But what about the area N of the park? The value was higher when the park first opened then it is now. I don't see much hope there.

 

http://charlotteknights.com/

Having read the 4/40 deal I've got more ideas.

1-Give out food & drink coupons for parking admissions.

 

It's a known fact that when the Sox draw 30K+ the added gate is coming from those driving to the park. Those who take the el or live within walking distance are part of the 23K avg. The die-hards that will go to games as long as the team is winning.

 

2-Offer food & drink coupons to UD ticket holders.

 

What these promotions do is offer a food & drink enticement to fair-weather fans to come to the games. The Cell is considered among the best in MLB in that dept so it's a great enticement.

 

I don't know the relationship between the concessions, the ISFA, & the White Sox.

But when you consider that $2-3M in rent money is at stake for just getting the White Sox over 2M fans a year I have to believe such promotions are doable.

[retro1983hat]

The only two promotions that have actually brought in more fans are Half-Price Mondays and Fireworks Saturdays.

 

Tuesdays, Wednesdays and even some Friday crowds are horrible and they will always be. The Sox never drew on those days. The Sox fan base is in the suburbs. Try leaving work in Arlington Heights at 5pm, driving to Lombard to pick up the wife and kids and then heading down to the Cell on a Tuesday against the Royals. It just doesn't happen for most fans.

Also the 2-for-1 upper deck thing on Tuesdays appears to be a bit of a bust. Fans want to sit downstairs.

[sec159row2]

Since the attendance comparison is really always made in relation to the Cubs, here's the history of attendance at Wrigley.  Their attendance can ultimately be linked to winning in 1984, Harry, becoming a tourist destination, and the rejuvination of the area.  Before 1984, Wrigley attendance was not so great.  I get sick of hearing about how loyal their fans are.  I remember late 70's/early 80's when portions of the upper deck were roped off because they didn't want to pay ushers to work sections with just a handful of people.  Too bad all the columnists don't take the time to do a little research.  They'd rather write about a stupid effing goat and attend the day games. 

 

Chicago Cubs

attendance at

Wrigley Field

2004 3,170,154

2003 2,962,630

2002 2,693,096

2001 2,779,465

2000 2,789,511

1999 2,813,854

1998 2,623,194

1997 2,190,308

1996 2,219,110

1995 1,918,265

1994 1,845,208

1993 2,653,763

1992 2,126,720

1991 2,314,250

1990 2,243,791

1989 2,491,942

1988 2,089,034

1987 2,035,130

1986 1,859,102

1985 2,161,534

1984 2,107,655

1983 1,479,717

1982 1,249,278

1981 565,637

1980 1,206,776

1979 1,648,587

1978 1,525,311

1977 1,439,834

1976 1,026,217

1975 1,034,819

1974 1,015,378

1973 1,351,705

1972 1,299,163

1971 1,653,007

1970 1,642,705

1969 1,674,993

1968 1,043,409

1967 977,226

1966 635,891

1965 641,361

1964 751,647

1963 979,551

1962 609,802

1961 673,057

1960 809,770

1959 858,255

1958 979,904

1957 670,629

1956 720,118

1955 875,800

1954 748,183

1953 763,658

1952 1,024,826

1951 894,415

1950 1,165,944

1949 1,143,139

1948 1,237,792

1947 1,364,039

1946 1,342,970

1945 1,036,386

1944 640,110

1943 508,247

1942 590,972

1941 545,159

1940 534,878

1939 726,663

1938 951,640

1937 895,020

1936 699,370

1935 692,604

1934 707,525

1933 594,112

1932 974,688

1931 1,086,422

1930 1,463,624

1929 1,485,166

1928 1,143,740

1927 1,159,168

1926 885,063

1925 622,610

1924 716,922

1923 703,705

1922 542,283

1921 410,107

1920 480,783

1919 424,430

1918 337,256

1917 360,218

1916 453,685

Attendance figures

courtesy of Total

Baseball

 

 

what happened in 1981???