Mike Veeck's take on improving the cell

[Rex Kickass]

The Drag Queen thing is pretty freaking hysterical.

[mreye]

I don't know. I kind of like some of the ideas. I like the Old Comiskey kiosk idea, the canvas, while it wouldn't draw fans, would be funny while poking fun at oursleves and lack of fans in the seats. Drag queens would be hiliarious! Not sure I want to see Roger's boys in dresses, though. With the damage the heels would do to the infield, they would have to drag it twice.

[BobDylan]

That was a long, long time ago. And to be honest, I am not too familiar with his time in St. Louis.  Things and people have changed. When he ran the White Sox in the 70's his team had to win to draw. Tell me how he made the White Sox of the late 70s respectable? They had 1 good season in 1977, not so coincidently the best attendance year. They were brutal in 76,78,79,80. Maybe if he dropped a mural of people over the closed outfield upper deck during many of the games those seasons, he would have drawn more.

 

He never had any cash to work with in Chicago. Reinsdorf has more of a luxury than Bill Veeck was ever given.

[Guest JimH]

He damn near ran the St. Louis Cardinals out of St. Louis. He took bum franchises and made them respectable.

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I'm not certain of the exact years he ran the St. Louis Browns but I do know he got them yanked out of St. Louis, he had Milwaukee and Baltimore playing off one another to get them. Milwaukee ended up getting the Boston Braves and the Browns became the Baltimore Orioles (one year apart IIRC). The Browns were almost always the red headed step child of St. Louis, to my knowledge the Cardinals were always the undisputed king there.

 

Bill Veeck was a great one for crying poor but he always made a killing when he sold/moved the franchises. He was a very good businessman and promoter.

[JUGGERNAUT]

He's right about one thing. The little things make big differences. While reading that I couldn't help but thinking of the talking fountain at Islands of Adventure. It's so simple & yet it always attracts the crowds. All day long.

 

I don't think the painted people would work at a ball park but how about life-size bobble heads of HOF players?

 

I like the idea of using long range lighting to create unusual effects as well.

Sort of like a Where's Waldo excercise for fans.

 

I've always believe the greener the park looks the better. So I'm all for ivy or plants along the walls but not in the out field.

[BobDylan]

I'm not certain of the exact years he ran the St. Louis Browns but I do know he got them yanked out of St. Louis, he had Milwaukee and Baltimore playing off one another to get them.  Milwaukee ended up getting the Boston Braves and the Browns became the Baltimore Orioles (one year apart IIRC).  The Browns were almost always the red headed step child of St. Louis, to my knowledge the Cardinals were always the undisputed king there.

 

Bill Veeck was a great one for crying poor but he always made a killing when he sold/moved the franchises.  He was a very good businessman and promoter.

 

The way I've always understood it is that Veeck would have ran the Cardinals out of St. Louis if they were not bought by Busch. As it was happening, Veeck's Brown's attendence was rising, and the Cardinals dropping. Veeck's profits were rising, the Cardinals were dropping. And not at a small pace, a rather large chunk on both ends. And as Veeck put it, "I would have run the Cardinals out of St. Louis, I’m sure of it, except for one thing. Saigh had gotten himself into income-tax trouble. He had already been indicted by mid-1952, and I had to face the possibility that he might have to sell the team. What a lousy thing for him to do to me.

 

"I wasn’t going to run Gussie Busch out of town. And I certainly wasn’t going to run Anheuser-Busch Inc. out of town. Busch wasn’t buying the club himself, the brewery was buying it. The brewery could run the club as part of its advertising budget, lose an unlimited amount of money and just write it off the company profits. By the time I hung up the receiver, I knew I had been knocked out of the box."

[Guest JimH]

The way I've always understood it is that Veeck would have ran the Cardinals out of St. Louis if they were not bought by Busch.  As it was happening, Veeck's Brown's attendence was rising, and the Cardinals dropping. Veeck's profits were rising, the Cardinals were dropping. And not at a small pace, a rather large chunk on both ends. And as Veeck put it, "I would have run the Cardinals out of St. Louis, I’m sure of it, except for one thing. Saigh had gotten himself into income-tax trouble. He had already been indicted by mid-1952, and I had to face the possibility that he might have to sell the team. What a lousy thing for him to do to me.

 

"I wasn’t going to run Gussie Busch out of town. And I certainly wasn’t going to run Anheuser-Busch Inc. out of town. Busch wasn’t buying the club himself, the brewery was buying it. The brewery could run the club as part of its advertising budget, lose an unlimited amount of money and just write it off the company profits. By the time I hung up the receiver, I knew I had been knocked out of the box."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This as I recall is out of Veeck's book, it's interesting stuff with the usual Veeckian spin. One thing for sure, the Cardinals were always the #1 team in that town, the Browns largely an afterthought. It's just conjecture of course, but knowing a bit about St. Louis history, Veeck's idea that he could run the Cardinals out of town seemed firmly rooted in one mind ... his own.

 

Veeck has an image as champion of the common man and nothing I say will dissaude anyone's thought process, but he made a killing every time he sold/moved a franchise, right after crying poor. He would have sold out Chicago re: the White Sox if baseball owners had been more infatuated with Marvin Davis of Denver. Luckily for Sox fans, MLB put a stop to that flirtation and a new owner was found.

 

Not to beat this to death, but he was a horrible judge of talent although he fancied himself as an expert. The 1959 team was totally in place when he got there, put together mostly by Frank Lane and to a lesser extent by Chuck Comiskey. Veeck made some horrible trades after 1959, including launching catcher Earl Battey, Norm Cash, Johnny Callison, all of whom went on to have very productive careers. In return, he got washed up ballplayers like a 38 yr. old Minnie Minoso and 3B Gene Freese who was clearly on the downside.

 

Veeck stepped in as a savior for 1976 and Chicago should be grateful to him for that, but he hired another old crony as manager ... Paul Richards and made a ton of trades for publicity's sake but the '76 season was brutal. For 1977 he traded for Zisk from Pittsburgh (Gossage?) or at least that's what I recall. He had an excellent manager in Bob Lemon but launched him in 1978 to bring in I believe both Don Kessinger and then Larry Doby (another old cronie) ... both of whom has no business managing in the major leagues.

 

All in all, Veeck did some good things for the White Sox and those are rightfully remembered. I always struggle that so many of the boneheaded things he did are conveniently swept into history.

 

I really should look up all the details because I'm typing this all from memory, which isn't always the best thing to do.

[YASNY]

JimH, you're damn close to spot on with your memory. Veeck did some great things and some things the Sox franchise would come to regret. He did save the Sox from being moved to Seattle when he bought the club in the 70's. I remember reading (probably in an addendum to Veeck's book) that Danny Kaye, who was attempting to buy the Sox and move to Seattle, and Gene Autry walked out of an owner's meeting, arm in arm, while singing "Back in Seattle Again", a knock off of Autry's famous signature tune.

 

As for the Zisk trade, it was Gossage and Terry Forster for Zisk. All were entering their free agent year.