White Sox weaknesses

[JUGGERNAUT]

I agree with the post that mentioned the next start after leaving COL is the toughest. Garcia, Contreras, & El Duque have all looked tired in their starts since.

 

I think they will bounce back in their next start.

 

I would like to make 3 moves:

- trade for Huff to platoon with Koney at 1B.

 

Koney 05: VS. LEFT: .185 / .769 VS. RIGHT: .266 / .863 HOME: .232 / .782 AWAY: .258 / .884

 

Huff 05: VS. LEFT: .269 / .707 VS. RIGHT: .252 / .703 HOME: .284 / .796 AWAY: .235 / .620

 

Huff is earning $5M w Tam & not likely to be w them in 06. His trade value is bargain basement right now. Not worthy of BMac or Anderson. He amounts to being a salary dump for the DR's. He might be exactly what the White Sox need. His SLG numbers are sure to rise hitting in Koney's spot in the White Sox lineup. It's impossible for them not to if he continues to hit .269 vs LH. It's a night & day difference between the guys hitting in front of him in Tam & what he'll have with the White Sox.

 

With Gload not expected to return until Aug the need is greater now. Timo sucks.

 

- trade for Guardado.

EG 05: VS. LEFT: .240 / .760 VS. RIGHT: .153 / .453 HOME: .192 / .640 AWAY: .156 / .388

 

Cliff Politte is the only arm in our pen that has better #'s vs LH this year. We are weak vs LH in the pen. This move shores up that weakness, furthers our dominance vs RH in the pen, & opens the door to trading Marte to shore up 3B.

 

- trade for Mueller.

Crede 05: VS. LEFT: .279 / .777 VS. RIGHT: .224 / .700 HOME: .165 / .607 AWAY: .291 / .807

 

Muellr 05: VS. LEFT: .318 / .900 VS. RIGHT: .266 / .729 HOME: .337 / .896 AWAY: .230 / .665

 

Not much needs to be said here. If you can get Mueller for the price of Marte & a mid-tier ml arm it's a no-brainer. Boston has no need for Crede so he likely would become a bench player.

 

Post-trade:

Bench: Widger, Everett, Huff, Crede, Harris

Crede provides that RH bat off the bench the team needs, Everett & Huff provide good options vs LHP.

 

With Crede on the bench Harris means more to the White Sox then Ozuna.

Ozuna is a better hitter but Harris a better runner. With this bench you can use Harris as a PR for either Koney or AJ in a game & then replace him with Huff or Widger. The same can be said for Mueller. These trades will improve the offense but make the team slower. Harris's value rises under that scenario.

 

Bullpn: Guardado, Hermy, Politte, Cotts, Shingo, Viz

vs LH: Politte (541 OPSv), Cotts (643 OPSv), Guardado (760 OPSv)

vs RH:Cotts (317 OPSv), Politte (377 OPSv), Hermy (397 OPSv), Guardado (453 OPSv), Viz (618 OPSv)

[AddisonStSox]

Can someone do some research and tell me the last winning-team in a pennant race that made three high-profile trades to drasticly alter the makeup of said winning club before the trade deadline?

[daa84]

Can someone do some research and tell me the last winning-team in a pennant race that made three high-profile trades to drasticly alter the makeup of said winning club before the trade deadline?

no kidding, not to mention tampa is gonna want a butt load for huff, and we arent gonna pay that price for a platoon/bench player...no offense but all 3 of those proposed trades is awful...id like to see maybe 1 of them happen...and if its huff, let him play 3rd over crede. all 3 wont happen

[JUGGERNAUT]

Can someone do some research and tell me the last winning-team in a pennant race that made three high-profile trades to drasticly alter the makeup of said winning club before the trade deadline?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How does this drastically alter the makeup of this team? Crede & Koney aren't going any where. Do you think Marte matters that much to the chemistry of this team?

 

I disagree with what you think the asking price is for Huff. His numbers are down considerably to where there are few teams looking to buy/trade for him. Other than the White Sox what other contender would be interested? If he's gone after 05 then it makes sense for Tam to get what they can for him now. Keep in mind that he's gone after 05 because Tam isn't interested in paying arbit prices to keep him. $3M saved might not seem like much but it amounts to 10% of their payroll.

 

As for the last time it happened, the Florida Marlins have 2 WS Championships in their short existence. Look up how they did it. Mid-season pickups were crucial to their success.

Edited June 15, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Guest JimH]

Stop.

 

Please stop.

 

These trade threads are going crazy, it's all pie in the sky stuff. Yes I know I can just skip over something I think is dumb, but this stuff is way out of control IMO.

 

Chuck Lamar the Tampa GM is notorious for being tough to deal with and demanding a king's ransom for his players. Huff's value is not low, not in Lamar's mind and that's the key.

 

Bill Mueller ... see last post in that thread.

 

Mid season pick ups are one thing but they are looking to add, not replace. Think prospects in terms of who might go in a trade.

[AddisonStSox]

Stop.

 

Please stop.

 

These trade threads are going crazy, it's all pie in the sky stuff.  Yes I know I can just skip over something I think is dumb, but this stuff is way out of control IMO.

 

Chuck Lamar the Tampa GM is notorious for being tough to deal with and demanding a king's ransom for his players.  Huff's value is not low, not in Lamar's mind and that's the key.

 

Bill Mueller ... see last post in that thread.

 

Mid season pick ups are one thing but they are looking to add, not replace.  Think prospects in terms of who might go in a trade.

 

 

Ty Cobb may be traded as well. I hear he may go to the White Sox.

[kapkomet]

   

 

Ty Cobb may be traded as well.  I hear he may go to the White Sox.

I hear he's better dead then Joe Crede.

 

[nvxplorer]

The only pickup I'd like to see is Minnie Minoso. Let him get one AB. Of course, the league has already denied him that privilege (1990?), but I think he could get wood on the ball.

[retro1983hat]

I say we trade Marte, Crede and Timo to the Yanks for A-Rod and have them pay the balance of his salary.

 

These trades are always the same ... our bad guys for the other teams' good guys.

[CanOfCorn]

Unlike other posters...at least Juggernaut backs up his trades with stats and facts. He doesn't just say...here, let's trade player X for player Y. All of these trades make sense, but they aren't all gonna happen, maybe none of them will happen. But, Juggs, at least you have some thought behind it.

 

I would much rather read this than the Crede and whoever for Chavez/Randa/Castilla/A-Rod/Cabrera/Nomar threads that are out there.

[GASHWOUND]

I say we trade Marte, Crede and Timo to the Yanks for A-Rod and have them pay the balance of his salary.

 

These trades are always the same ... our bad guys for the other teams' good guys.

 

No kidding

[Rowand44]

Jugg, neither Koney or Huff are platoon players. The end.

[SoxFan1]

Hahaha.......yeah, we're gonna get Huff and platoon him with Kong at 1st and still keep Crede? Wow.........just wow.

[Jabroni]

Huff on the bench?

[JUGGERNAUT]

While I don't believe Tampa will ask a King's Ransom for a player they don't plan to pay arbit $'s for in 06 I will agree I am asking a lot of these 4 players to accept less AB's in the 2nd half.

 

I'm assuming they are the type of players that will accept lesser roles for the good of a team that seems destined to go to the World Series.

 

It goes w/out saying if they aren't willing to accept that the trades are dead. There's a lot of questions there.

 

Would Guardado accept being a setup guy for Hermy?

Would Huff & Mueller be willing to share time with Koney & Crede?

Would JR pick up the extra $10M to get it done?

 

If the team is short on cash right now then Guardado is probably the only option we can afford. The M's are remaking their team with Sox prospects.

[TaylorStSox]

I agree with the post that mentioned the next start after leaving COL is the toughest.  Garcia, Contreras, & El Duque have all looked tired in their starts since.

 

I think they will bounce back in their next start.

 

I would like to make 3 moves:

- trade for Huff to platoon with Koney at 1B.

 

Koney 05: VS. LEFT: .185 / .769 VS. RIGHT: .266 / .863 HOME: .232 / .782 AWAY: .258 / .884

 

Huff 05: VS. LEFT: .269 / .707 VS. RIGHT: .252 / .703 HOME: .284 / .796 AWAY: .235 / .620

 

Huff is earning $5M w Tam & not likely to be w them in 06.  His trade value is bargain basement right now.  Not worthy of BMac or Anderson.  He amounts to being a salary dump for the DR's.  He might be exactly what the White Sox need.  His SLG numbers are sure to rise hitting in Koney's spot in the White Sox lineup.  It's impossible for them not to if he continues to hit .269 vs LH.  It's a night & day difference between the guys hitting in front of him in Tam & what he'll have with the White Sox.

 

With Gload not expected to return until Aug the need is greater now.  Timo sucks.

 

- trade for Guardado. 

EG 05: VS. LEFT: .240 / .760 VS. RIGHT: .153 / .453 HOME: .192 / .640 AWAY: .156 / .388

 

Cliff Politte is the only arm in our pen that has better #'s vs LH this year.  We are weak vs LH in the pen.  This move shores up that weakness, furthers our dominance vs RH in the pen, & opens the door to trading Marte to shore up 3B.

 

- trade for Mueller.

Crede 05: VS. LEFT: .279 / .777 VS. RIGHT: .224 / .700 HOME: .165 / .607 AWAY: .291 / .807

 

Muellr 05: VS. LEFT: .318 / .900 VS. RIGHT: .266 / .729 HOME: .337 / .896 AWAY: .230 / .665

 

Not much needs to be said here.  If you can get Mueller for the price of Marte & a mid-tier ml arm it's a no-brainer.  Boston has no need for Crede so he likely would become a bench player.

 

Post-trade:

Bench: Widger, Everett, Huff, Crede, Harris

Crede provides that RH bat off the bench the team needs,  Everett & Huff provide good options vs LHP. 

 

With Crede on the bench Harris means more to the White Sox then Ozuna. 

Ozuna is a better hitter but Harris a better runner.  With this bench you can use Harris as a PR for either Koney or AJ in a game & then replace him with Huff or Widger.  The same can be said for Mueller.  These trades will improve the offense but make the team slower.  Harris's value rises under that scenario.

 

Bullpn: Guardado, Hermy, Politte, Cotts, Shingo, Viz

vs LH: Politte (541 OPSv), Cotts (643 OPSv), Guardado (760 OPSv)

vs RH:Cotts (317 OPSv), Politte (377 OPSv),  Hermy (397 OPSv), Guardado (453 OPSv), Viz (618 OPSv)

 

 

Here's the problem I have with this. The whole idea of platooning everyday players based on splits is wrong. Guys need consistant AB's to succeed.

 

This is especially true with a guy like PK. PK's an extremely high maintenance hitter. Everything has to be perfect for him. He's not a guy like Vlad, Soriano, or to a lesser extent Uribe. They can all guess wrong on a pitch, adjust, and still smash it. PK has to know the pitch. He has to be in a groove. His swing has to be perfect. He can't make quick adjustments. This is why he goes into prolonged slumps when he's off.

 

Also, you can give me all the numbers you want. PK is uncomfortable in the box against alot of LH pitching. I see it with my own eyes.

[Jabroni]

Here's the problem I have with this. The whole idea of platooning everyday players based on splits is wrong. Guys need consistant AB's to succeed.

 

This is especially true with a guy like PK. PK's an extremely high maintenance hitter. Everything has to be perfect for him. He's not a guy like Vlad, Soriano, or to a lesser extent Uribe. They can all guess wrong on a pitch, adjust, and still smash it. PK has to know the pitch. He has to be in a groove. His swing has to be perfect. He can't make quick adjustments. This is why he goes into prolonged slumps when he's off.

 

Also, you can give me all the numbers you want. PK is uncomfortable in the box against alot of LH pitching. I see it with my own eyes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right. Konerko has struggled against lefties lately. Hawk even said as much a few games ago.

Edited June 16, 2005 by Jabroni

[SoxFan1]

While I don't believe Tampa will ask a King's Ransom for a player they don't plan to pay arbit $'s for in 06 I will agree I am asking a lot of these 4 players to accept less AB's in the 2nd half. 

 

I'm assuming they are the type of players that will accept lesser roles for the good of a team that seems destined to go to the World Series.

 

It goes w/out saying if they aren't willing to accept that the trades are dead.  There's a lot of questions there.

 

Would Guardado accept being a setup guy for Hermy?

Would Huff & Mueller be willing to share time with Koney & Crede?

Would JR pick up the extra $10M to get it done?

 

If the team is short on cash right now then Guardado is probably the only option we can afford.  The M's are remaking their team with Sox prospects.

I like the idea of getting Guardado. He would improve our pen A LOT! I just don't see being able to get huff or mueller and STILL keep crede and on top of that, platoon them with Kong AND Crede. It just doesn't fit the pieces of the puzzle to me.

[BobDylan]

Neither Konerko or Huff are platoon players. If Guardado was acquired, Hermanson drops into the set-up role. Crede isn't such a liability that we absolutely must improve upon 3B.

 

This isn't MVP baseball, sir. These moves just aren't realistic and frankly, they don't make much sense either.