Constitutional Amendment on Flag Burning

[CanOfCorn]

Not too many, which is why I didn't finish the line to see how many other old farts chimed in.

 

[/basking in my increasing irrelevance]

 

 

I'm right there with you FSJim. With every new member on this board, I gain a wrinkle.

[YASNY]

How many people on this board do you think remembers that sketch?

And Yas...I don't mean to be nitpicky, nor do I want to get into an argument, but it's not pro-abortion...it's pro-choice.  I have a couple of friends who don't agree with abortion and would never get an abortion (unless necessary), but are for the freedom of an individual to choose if she wants one or not.

 

Sorry, it just kind of irks me when someone says pro-abortion and that's not what it is at all.

 

Now, back to the thread......

 

Then again, it could be called pro-murder-of-the-unborn. But who am I to quibble?

[KipWellsFan]

House approves, Hillary Clinton opposes

 

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050622/D8ASTK500.html

[LowerCaseRepublican]

House has approved it in the past (I think it is 7 times now that they have). Now the real test comes if the Senate will pass such a measure.

[Wong & Owens]

So many more pressing issues to deal with in this country, so many other problems that need to be fixed, and yet Congress is wasting time and tax dollars(again) on a petty concern.

 

Here's a bill you can pass: Make it ILLEGAL for anyone who has held any level of political office, from holding a political office for the next 20 years. Clean f***ing house.

[Rex Kickass]

Here's to hoping that at least 34 senators remember that you don't protect freedom by taking it away.

[Texsox]

Not only do I burn flags, but I teach little kids how to do it. If this passes, how are we suppose to dispose of old flags?

 

If we are talking about the symbolic need for people who hate this country or things this country are doing, well that destroys our very foundation. Our country will collapse if someone would burn the flag in protest. While we are banning flag burning because we do not agree with that expression, let's also ban the liberal media because we do not agree with them. Let's legislate all thoughts and actions until we have the perfect democracy.

 

Nuke, let's keep score.

Innocent until proven guilty -- out the window.

First Amendment -- out the window.

[FlaSoxxJim]

While we are banning flag burning because we do not agree with that expression, let's also ban the liberal media because we do not agree with them.

 

First you would have to actually find it, though. You'd think it would be easy. You know, just go after the all the major networks that are running the Downing Street Memo as their top story... Oh, uuhm... wait... there has to be one somewhere...

 

Meanwhile in other news, America shrugs, yawns, and goes back to sleep.

Edited June 23, 2005 by FlaSoxxJim

[mreye]

The flag is a symbol. Many here say it should be allowed to be burned under the 1st Ammendment.

 

The cross is a symbol. Should the burning of it also be protected?

 

Just saying. I'm on the fence on this whole issue and just thought this was an interesting analogy.

[Wong & Owens]

The cross is a symbol. Should the burning of it also be protected?

 

 

Yes.

[southsider2k5]

Yes.

 

I know the context of what mreye was going for, at least I think so, and if he was going for the whole Klan cross-burnings, that crosses the line of free-speech anyway. If you want to burn crosses on your own front lawn, and your locale allows it in their fire codes, have at it. If you want to burn crosses on someone else's lawn, it is a violation of free speech anyway.

[Wong & Owens]

I also wonder how enforceable a bill like this would be. For example, what if I drew a picture of the flag and burned it, is that illegal? What if I accidentally spilled something on a flag, then used it to clean up the rest of the spill, is that illegal? What if I peed on a T-shirt with the flag on it, is that illegal? What becomes of anyone that owns an early copy of the Black Crowes' Amorica album?

[mreye]

I know the context of what mreye was going for, at least I think so, and if he was going for the whole Klan cross-burnings, that crosses the line of free-speech anyway.  If you want to burn crosses on your own front lawn, and your locale allows it in their fire codes, have at it.  If you want to burn crosses on someone else's lawn, it is a violation of free speech anyway.

So if my neighbors across the street are black, it's OK if I burn a cross on my lawn?

[Soxy]

So if my neighbors across the street are black, it's OK if I burn a cross on my lawn?

 

I think, though, that the fundamental difference between the two things is that one is done to make people fearful and is a threat, whereas the other is more of an expression of displeasure with the policies or whatever of the country. One is, historically, tied to a threat of violence; that connotation is never to go away. The other is a (pathetic) attempt at an "eff you" to the government.

[CanOfCorn]

So if my neighbors across the street are black, it's OK if I burn a cross on my lawn?

 

What if you were protesting the fact that the Catholic Church won't allow women to become priests and burned a cross on your front lawn with a black family across the street?

 

What I'm saying is, if you burn a cross on the black family's lawn, that's pretty blatantly a hate crime, if you do it on your lawn, it would be nearly impossible to prove you were doing it as a hate crime, you could say anything and probably be let off, except for fire codes.

[Balta1701]

Congress may pass it but I bet the states don't.

In the past, something like 49 states have at 1 time or another passed statements saying that they support such a ban.

 

It needs to die in the Senate...if not there's a solid chance it will get the support it needs in the States.

[Balta1701]

I absolutely hate this amendment, for all the reasons above, but I'd like to take this conversation in a different direction: if this amendment does pass, then I want 1 thing to come of it.

 

I want there to be actual laws saying that people cannot desecrate the flag. That's actually what the amendment says - its not just flag burning.

 

Now, I was a Boy Scout in the past, and so I know something about the rules governing how to deal with the flag.

 

I've also spent some time working as a door-to-door salesperson. This has, I feel, given me something of a unique perspective on this matter. Why?

 

Very simple. I cannot tell you how many dozens of houses I have gone by, just in the period of a few months, who were openly desecrating the flag.

 

Did you know that it's considered an insult to the flag to hang it lower than other flags? Did you know it's considered an insult to the flag to hang it when it is tattered or torn or faded? Most importantly, did you know that it is considered flag descration to let the flag touch the ground?

 

I hate this amendment, but if it passes, I want to be able to call the police and tell them that so and so at this house has the U.S. flag resting on the ground. You could do it all the time - people are so damn careless with the things its unreal.

 

That way, when the careless fools get home, they'll discover that they have a $200 fine or something like that for flag desecration, and they'll learn really quickly that either they need to take better care of their flag or they better as all Hell keep a closer eye on their government.

[southsider2k5]

So if my neighbors across the street are black, it's OK if I burn a cross on my lawn?

 

As long as it isn't an attempt to intimidate them, yes. (and like I said assuming your community lets you have open fires) If you do it on their lawn, that is a different story.

 

 

What if you were protesting the fact that the Catholic Church won't allow women to become priests and burned a cross on your front lawn with a black family across the street? 

 

What I'm saying is, if you burn a cross on the black family's lawn, that's pretty blatantly a hate crime, if you do it on your lawn, it would be nearly impossible to prove you were doing it as a hate crime, you could say anything and probably be let off, except for fire codes.

 

That is pretty much exactly what I think. Freedom of speech means you are going to see and hear somethings that you don't agree with. Groups like PETA and NAMBLA have special places reserved for them, but the thing is they have the right to say and think what they want to do. What I think of them doesn't matter, what matters is as long as they aren't hurting anybody, they have their right to freedom of speech too.

[kapkomet]

As long as it isn't an attempt to intimidate them, yes.  (and like I said assuming your community lets you have open fires)  If you do it on their lawn, that is a different story.

That is pretty much exactly what I think.  Freedom of speech means you are going to see and hear somethings that you don't agree with.  Groups like PETA and NAMBLA have special places reserved for them, but the thing is they have the right to say and think what they want to do.  What I think of them doesn't matter, what matters is as long as they aren't hurting anybody, they have their right to freedom of speech too.

 

But the GOVERNMENT is supposed to take care of defining it all FOR ME, don't you know?

 

:fyou the government.

[Controlled Chaos]

I don't need a constitutional amendment.

 

If I see you burning a flag, I deck you and put it out. If it's worth it to you...light it again...We'll see who get's tired of expressing themself first.

 

No need for an amendment.

Edited June 23, 2005 by Controlled Chaos

[FlaSoxxJim]

I don't need a constitutional amendment. 

 

If I see you burning a flag, I deck you and put it out.  If it's worth it to you...light it again...We'll see who get's tired of expressing themself first.

 

No need for an amendment.

Get ready to beat up a bunch of Boy Scouts. Or will they have to throw retired flag in the garbage now instead of burning them?

[KipWellsFan]

I don't need a constitutional amendment. 

 

If I see you burning a flag, I deck you and put it out.  If it's worth it to you...light it again...We'll see who get's tired of expressing themself first.

 

No need for an amendment.

 

[Soxy]

Just out of curiosity--do other countries have similar laws?

[Rex Kickass]

Just out of curiosity--do other countries have similar laws?

 

There are very few western democracies that have similar laws.

[Soxy]

There are very few western democracies that have similar laws.

That's what I thought.