Sorry fantasy GM's, Sox not ready to deal

[Hideaway Lights]

Crede bashers...I know 3b is traditionally a power position...but assuming his average can come up to around .250-.260 range.... and he hits 25+ doubles and 22+ home runs, 70 RBI and 70 Runs (his currently projected totals), I'd take that from my 9th place hitting, good-defending third sacker (8th out of 21 in qualified fielding percentage for 3b).

[Steff]

No kidding he has no input on final decisions, but where do you think the idea for the makeup of the team came from?

 

 

 

The GM. The manager manages what he is given. End of story.

[witesoxfan]

No big blockbuster this year (a first place team doesn't need one). 

 

That is shallow thinking at its shallowest(almost)

 

Just because you are in first place, and just because you have a 5 game lead, does not mean you should not look to make a blockbuster move to help your team win a World Series. The one thing this team has been missing all year is consistently solid offensive production. Frank helps, but he may not be the end-all problems type player we need. We may, or may not, already have those players on the roster, as Dye is still heating up a bit, Konerko is as well, Jurassic is solid, Crede and Uribe can hit better, and I could probably go on still.

 

This specific team may not necessarily need a blockbuster move, because they are pretty well set up and down...but if you would have said that in 2000 with KW at the helm(Scheuler was of course GM then, but I like playing hypotheticals here), you would have been very, very wrong. As it was, the Sox made a blockbuster of sorts, adding CJ and Baines to the team, and with KW at the helm, you could have seriously seen more than just that.

[southsideirish71]

Crede bashers...I know 3b is traditionally a power position...but assuming his average can come up to around .250-.260 range.... and he hits 25+ doubles and 22+ home runs, 70 RBI and 70 Runs (his currently projected totals), I'd take that from my 9th place hitting, good-defending third sacker (8th out of 21 in qualified fielding percentage for 3b).

 

 

I think everyone wouldnt mind cruddy if he was a bit more consistant. When he bats great for two weeks, then goes into a month or more long slump where he hits under 200, then hits good for a bit, then goes into another long slump. That is our problem.

 

 

If he hit 260 I would be happy.

 

But I havent seen him hit 260 yet.

[Guest JimH]

Personally I think the blockbuster moves were made last winter after Guillen, KW and company holed up in Las Vegas and agreed on what direction they intended to go. KW then went out and got things done to put the plan in motion.

 

Remember the previous winter there were no huge moves, then came the Garcia trade just about a year ago.

 

I just see tweaks coming.

[witesoxfan]

Crede bashers...I know 3b is traditionally a power position...but assuming his average can come up to around .250-.260 range.... and he hits 25+ doubles and 22+ home runs, 70 RBI and 70 Runs (his currently projected totals), I'd take that from my 9th place hitting, good-defending third sacker (8th out of 21 in qualified fielding percentage for 3b).

 

First of all, FLDG% is so unbelievably weak that that argument makes me sick. Royce Clayton doesn't make errors either, and quite frankly, I really don't want him as my SS at any time. I'd much rather have a guy with a strong arm and more range who makes a few errors here and there.

 

Crede is a solid defender...underrated by some, and overrated by others...has a little bit of range, but does not have a ton, makes the plays he needs to, and makes some very good ones too. He is above-average defensively

 

 

The fielding percentage thing just bugged me I think. Thats all

[RockRaines]

The GM. The manager manages what he is given. End of story.

 

Yeah that makes sense, Ozzie comes here, says he wants to play a different kind of ball, and KW gives him a team that works with his wants. Yeah, looks like Ozzie had nothing to do with that.

[Steff]

Yeah that makes sense, Ozzie comes here, says he wants to play a different kind of ball, and KW gives him a team that works with his wants.  Yeah, looks like Ozzie had nothing to do with that.

 

 

You asked me a question and I gave you an answer based on answers to specific questions I have asked from the horse himself.. Don't like my answers.. oh well.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I have asked from the horse himself..

 

Carlos Lee isn't on the team anymore.

[Hideaway Lights]

If he hit 260 I would be happy. 

 

But I havent seen him hit 260 yet.

 

 

He hit .285 in 53 games in 2002.

He hit .261 in 151 games in 2003.

His career average is .254 (not that far off of .260).

[Hideaway Lights]

First of all, FLDG% is so unbelievably weak that that argument makes me sick.  Royce Clayton doesn't make errors either, and quite frankly, I really don't want him as my SS at any time.  I'd much rather have a guy with a strong arm and more range who makes a few errors here and there. 

 

Crede is a solid defender...underrated by some, and overrated by others...has a little bit of range, but does not have a ton, makes the plays he needs to, and makes some very good ones too.  He is above-average defensively

The fielding percentage thing just bugged me I think.  Thats all

 

What defensive measuring stick do you use, then? I'm not wedded to fielding percentage. Crede is certainly above average defensively, as you reiterated. I just threw in the F% as an afterthought.

[RockRaines]

You asked me a question and I gave you an answer based on answers to specific questions I have asked from the horse himself.. Don't like my answers.. oh well.

Because its just not the truth, your "insider information" doesnt hold water in this conversation, because its just not the case.

[Steff]

Because its just not the truth, your "insider information" doesnt hold water in this conversation, because its just not the case.

 

 

 

And where did you obtain the information that it's not the truth..?

 

It doesn't hold water..? So you think Ozzie walks into Kenny's office and says "Get Tom, Dick, and Harry.. " and he does it.. ?

 

LMAO

 

Good stuff..

[RockRaines]

And where did you obtain the information that it's not the truth..?

 

It doesn't hold water..? So you think Ozzie walks into Kenny's office and says "Get Tom, Dick, and Harry.. " and he does it.. ?

 

LMAO 

 

Good stuff..

You are implying that KW went out and changed the team, and picked up players in the offseason all because he himself came up with the idea, and he figured out what players to get. And Ozzie had no input on what direction the team is going, what the nature of the team should be, and how they were going to change to fit that mold.

 

Ozzie just happened to be the manager who fell into the team that he was given. Thats ridiculous and untrue. And the information came from Kenny, so it is untrue.

[Steff]

You are implying that KW went out and changed the team, and picked up players in the offseason all because he himself came up with the idea, and he figured out what players to get. And Ozzie had no input on what direction the team is going, what the nature of the team should be, and how they were going to change to fit that mold.

 

Ozzie just happened to be the manager who fell into the team that he was given.  Thats ridiculous and untrue.  And the information came from Kenny, so it is untrue.

 

 

 

No.. that's not what I said or implied.

 

Jim got exactly what I said without putting words in my mouth. Maybe try that..

[RockRaines]

Check out post 27 Steff. I said Ozzie had input on the makeup of the team, which means how the team's philosophy is structured and the type of players needed. You replied that he just manages and the GM makes those calls.

[Jabroni]

It means less than you think. Ozzie can talk all he wants.. if Kenny don't like them, they aint coming here. Perfect example.. Urbina. Ozzie wanted him, Kenny didn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Urbina was on the Tigers. Did you think they were going to trade him to us?

[Steff]

Check out post 27 Steff.  I said Ozzie had input on the makeup of the team, which means how the team's philosophy is structured and the type of players needed.  You replied that he just manages and the GM makes those calls.

 

 

You asked me a question.. I gave you what I think is the answer.

 

Where did I claim that Ozzie has nothing to do with anything and Kenny did everything on his own..?

 

Don't look.. cause I didn't.

[RockRaines]

And dont let your dislike for Ozzie cloud your vision on this issue. If we didnt have Ozzie and hired someone else, we wouldnt have a team like this, and we probably wouldnt be this good.

[Steff]

Urbina was on the Tigers.  Did you think they were going to trade him to us?

 

 

BEFORE he was on the Tigers...

[Steff]

And dont let your dislike for Ozzie cloud your vision on this issue.  If we didnt have Ozzie and hired someone else, we wouldnt have a team like this, and we probably wouldnt be this good.

 

 

My dislike of Ozzie...? Uhhh.... I don't dislike Ozzie or his family one bit. I especially like Jr a lot.. he's a riot to go out drinking with.

[RockRaines]

My dislike of Ozzie...? Uhhh.... I don't dislike Ozzie or his family one bit. I especially like Jr a lot.. he's a riot to go out drinking with.

Ah yes, the old, I know this person post, my fav. By the way, I go drinking with...wait that has nothing to do with the issue.

 

Yes, your dislike for Ozzie. I could look up your posts, but I remember very clearly your bashing of Ozzie especially with his comments in the papers. Fact is, Ozzie's vision for the club and his experience on a World Series Championship team, led to the re-make of this power hitting club. Bar none, thats thr truth. I know you like to get in the last word on every issue, so I will let you. But you said all he does is manage what KW gives him, I say he has input on the direction of the team.

[Guest JimH]

Here is what I believe to be the modus operendi at 35th and Shields, based on things I've read and heard from Reinsdorf, Williams, and Guillen.

 

---------------------------------

 

They meet off site at year end, this past year it was in Las Vegas. KW and Ozzie and the coaches and probably Reinsdorf too get in a room for 2-3 days and talk about what went wrong, what went right, and which way everyone wants to go.

 

Part of that discussion is where the team needs to improve, i.e. at what specific positions. At that point they may begin tossing around names ... guys KW thinks will fit, that Ozzie thinks will fit, that the coaches think will fit.

 

They hash it all out and attempt to come to some sort of agreement on direction.

 

It then becomes KW's job to determine if certain guys can be traded and if certain guys can be acquired. I believe Ozzie's influence ends at this point, unless there's an element of recruiting that's involved, i.e. a free agent.

 

And then things either get done, or they don't.

 

---------------------------------

 

One good example is with Pablo Ozuna. Williams and Guillen both said in Tucson that KW got a good report on Ozuna from the pro scouts, KW thought he might be able to compete for a bench job. KW called Ozzie in the winter and said "hey, we're thinking of bringing this guy in for spring training, what do you think?" and Ozzie concurred it was a good idea. Then KW did it.

 

In this case, KW's idea, consults with Ozzie who may have known Pablo from the Marlins organization, and everyone thought it was a good idea. KW makes the final call.

 

Edit: oops, I should have said that KW told me this about Ozuna personally, I was fortunate enough to sit right behind him and Reinsdorf/Hahn/Dennis Gilbert at the 3/9 game vs. the Padres in Peoria AZ.

Edited June 16, 2005 by JimH

[RockRaines]

Absolutely Jim, exactly my sentiments.

[Steff]

Ah yes, the old, I know this person post, my fav.  By the way, I go drinking with...wait that has nothing to do with the issue.

 

Yes, your dislike for Ozzie.  I could look up your posts, but I remember very clearly your bashing of Ozzie especially with his comments in the papers.  Fact is, Ozzie's vision for the club and his experience on a World Series Championship team, led to the re-make of this power hitting club.  Bar none, thats thr truth.  I know you like to get in the last word on every issue, so I will let you.  But you said all he does is manage what KW gives him, I say he has input on the direction of the team.

 

Sure it has to do with the issue.. don't tell me I dislike someone when it's not true. If you're going to tell a lie on me make it something a bit harder to shoot holes in.

 

Please.. go look. I dislike Ozzie's flappy gums. You won't find anywhere where I'd s*** on him further than telling him to shut up.

 

I agreed he has imput.. just not as much as Jim indicated he might.

 

Why don't you just read what's on the screen instead of embellishing and telling me I said s*** when I didn't.