Frankensteiner Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Kenny has money and prospects to spend. I can't see him standing pat, or only a doing a "minor tweak." It's not his style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 01:56 PM) Here is what I believe to be the modus operendi at 35th and Shields, based on things I've read and heard from Reinsdorf, Williams, and Guillen. --------------------------------- They meet off site at year end, this past year it was in Las Vegas. KW and Ozzie and the coaches and probably Reinsdorf too get in a room for 2-3 days and talk about what went wrong, what went right, and which way everyone wants to go. Part of that discussion is where the team needs to improve, i.e. at what specific positions. At that point they may begin tossing around names ... guys KW thinks will fit, that Ozzie thinks will fit, that the coaches think will fit. They hash it all out and attempt to come to some sort of agreement on direction. It then becomes KW's job to determine if certain guys can be traded and if certain guys can be acquired. I believe Ozzie's influence ends at this point, unless there's an element of recruiting that's involved, i.e. a free agent. And then things either get done, or they don't. --------------------------------- One good example is with Pablo Ozuna. Williams and Guillen both said in Tucson that KW got a good report on Ozuna from the pro scouts, KW thought he might be able to compete for a bench job. KW called Ozzie in the winter and said "hey, we're thinking of bringing this guy in for spring training, what do you think?" and Ozzie concurred it was a good idea. Then KW did it. In this case, KW's idea, consults with Ozzie who may have known Pablo from the Marlins organization, and everyone thought it was a good idea. KW makes the final call. Edit: oops, I should have said that KW told me this about Ozuna personally, I was fortunate enough to sit right behind him and Reinsdorf/Hahn/Dennis Gilbert at the 3/9 game vs. the Padres in Peoria AZ. I definitely agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Kenny has money and prospects to spend. I can't see him standing pat, or only a doing a "minor tweak." It's not his style. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We shall see, that's what makes this time of year interesting. My impression is both Williams and Guillen love the clubhouse chemistry and they will be very cautious with changing it wholesale. By the same token, I think they won't stand entirely pat just on the basis of good chemistry. It's a fine line to walk. But I do not expect the level of trades that are constantly being suggested on this board. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 12:45 PM) The GM. The manager manages what he is given. End of story. No need to curse steff....jeez. This is the quote that I read, it was on my screen. My comment was the Ozzie had some input on the makeup of the team. This was your answer. To me it looks like Ozzie just manages and KW puts together the team. If you agree with what Jim said, thats exactly what I was saying, so you agree with me. So im not sure why the argument ensued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Whoa Whoa Whoa Steff, Pudge was considering us, but KW didn't want to sign him?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 01:01 PM) I definitely agree with this. For what it is worth this was what I felt the whole situation is. Guillen can't say, "Go get me Eric Chavez, Pedro Martinez and Ben Davis," and actual think is going to get them. I beleive they set a philosphy and Guillen gets rid of guys and mentions guys that are available that may fit. Rid - Lee Get - Smart good guy Dye Rid - Valantin Get - after researching Pyz Need - bullpen help get Hermanson and Vizcaino Guillen get that SS from FL he may work out, he may not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Whoa Whoa Whoa Steff, Pudge was considering us, but KW didn't want to sign him?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My best guess is there were gobs of teams at the very least interested in Ivan Rodriguez. White Sox included. Then there's that little issue of amount of salary required and an agent to deal with ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 02:04 PM) No need to curse steff....jeez. This is the quote that I read, it was on my screen. My comment was the Ozzie had some input on the makeup of the team. This was your answer. To me it looks like Ozzie just manages and KW puts together the team. If you agree with what Jim said, thats exactly what I was saying, so you agree with me. So im not sure why the argument ensued. No. that wasn't your comment.. This was your comment/question.... "QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) No kidding he has no input on final decisions, but where do you think the idea for the makeup of the team came from?" I'm not Kenny, or Ozzie, or Jerry... so everything I post here is my opinion. Looks like the "argument" started when you didn't like my opinion of the way I think things are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 02:07 PM) My best guess is there were gobs of teams at the very least interested in Ivan Rodriguez. White Sox included. Then there's that little issue of amount of salary required and an agent to deal with ... I'm so not going to get into this.. mainly because no one will believe me.. but Mikster from WSI was there in Detroit as the story of how Pudge could have been on the Sox.. and it was not a $ issue. The same with Urbina.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 02:08 PM) "QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) No kidding he has no input on final decisions, but where do you think the idea for the makeup of the team came from?" I'm not Kenny, or Ozzie, or Jerry... so everything I post here is my opinion. Looks like the "argument" started when you didn't like my opinion of the way I think things are done. Your answer was the GM, and that Ozzie just manages right? You said that is came from the horses mouth, I assumed you werent talking about a real horse. FWIW, your opinion looked to me like the GM makes all of the calls, makeup, players, philosophy, and Ozzie just manages what he is given. If that is your opinion, then yeah I disagree. But then you agreed with Jim, which was what I believed. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 12:48 PM) I think everyone wouldnt mind cruddy if he was a bit more consistant. When he bats great for two weeks, then goes into a month or more long slump where he hits under 200, then hits good for a bit, then goes into another long slump. That is our problem. If he hit 260 I would be happy. But I havent seen him hit 260 yet. He is a .255 career hitter. That's pretty damn close to .260. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 02:12 PM) Your answer was the GM, and that Ozzie just manages right? You said that is came from the horses mouth, I assumed you werent talking about a real horse. FWIW, your opinion looked to me like the GM makes all of the calls, makeup, players, philosophy, and Ozzie just manages what he is given. If that is your opinion, then yeah I disagree. But then you agreed with Jim, which was what I believed. Am I wrong? A bit, yea.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 01:11 PM) I'm so not going to get into this.. mainly because no one will believe me.. but Mikster from WSI was there in Detroit as the story of how Pudge could have been on the Sox.. and it was not a $ issue. The same with Urbina.. Thanks for telling what you can. Wow. Anyone, I also believe that KW runs things, but will ask Ozzie on things of comparison. Like KW would ask him, we're looking at two guys right now, who would you rather have? and then go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Thanks...I wasted 5 minutes on this thread READING you argue. Now...BACK TO THE THREAD!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 He is a .255 career hitter. That's pretty damn close to .260. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> .254 career hitter, and that's not quite close enough to .260 in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 01:19 PM) Thanks for telling what you can. Wow. Anyone, I also believe that KW runs things, but will ask Ozzie on things of comparison. Like KW would ask him, we're looking at two guys right now, who would you rather have? and then go from there. Ozzie and KW and others on the team simply discuss where they can improve the team. KW makes virtually all of the personnel decisions. Case in point: Pudge was in Ozzie's office prior to signing with the Tigers - just sitting there BS'ing. KW walkes in and Pudge basically says "Let's make a deal, right here - right now" No Boras, no nothing..... From my understanding, the numbers that Pudge was throwing at KW were FAR LESS than what he ultimately signed with Detroit. Similarly, in ST '04, before Urbina signed with the Tigers, Uggie basically begged Ozzie to sign him to a contract - even a 1 year deal for $1M. It obviously didn't happen. Urbina was actually in Tucson living in Ozzie's condo during ST when he wasn't even under a contract with any MLB team. Fact is, Ozzie has little to do with the players that are actually signed by the Sox. He may have some input...some influence, but all decisions fall on KW's shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(Mickster @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 02:41 PM) Ozzie and KW and others on the team simply discuss where they can improve the team. KW makes virtually all of the personnel decisions. Case in point: Pudge was in Ozzie's office prior to signing with the Tigers - just sitting there BS'ing. KW walkes in and Pudge basically says "Let's make a deal, right here - right now" No Boras, no nothing..... From my understanding, the numbers that Pudge was throwing at KW were FAR LESS than what he ultimately signed with Detroit. Similarly, in ST '04, before Urbina signed with the Tigers, Uggie basically begged Ozzie to sign him to a contract - even a 1 year deal for $1M. It obviously didn't happen. Urbina was actually in Tucson living in Ozzie's condo during ST when he wasn't even under a contract with any MLB team. Fact is, Ozzie has little to do with the players that are actually signed by the Sox. He may have some input...some influence, but all decisions fall on KW's shoulders. Interesting indeed. Drinking buddy/Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 01:43 PM) Interesting indeed. Drinking buddy/Source? Sorry. I don't drink and tell.... It's credible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Thanks John.. I couldn't recall the Urbina details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 WTF? Makes no sense to me Why would KW not want to sign a guy that just led his team to a World Series championship? Why would he not want to sign the closer from the World Champions for such a bargain price? Not discrediting it, just honestly wondering WTF is the reasoning behind that...is it something that can't be said, or not? If KW turned down IRod and then allowed him to sign with Detroit, a division rival...why??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 He probably didn't think Detroit was going to come out of the blue and sign him. I certainly didn't. That's weird though. I-Rod seems like a guy KW would sign in a heartbeat if he did that. He would've been perfect for Olivo's development. I digress though. I'm just saying, it would've been awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 03:40 PM) He probably didn't think Detroit was going to come out of the blue and sign him. I certainly didn't. That's weird though. I-Rod seems like a guy KW would sign in a heartbeat if he did that. He would've been perfect for Olivo's development. I digress though. I'm just saying, it would've been awesome. Olivo was not on the "3 year board". Also.. at that point they knew Davis was coming with Freddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 03:43 PM) Olivo was not on the "3 year board". Also.. at that point they knew Davis was coming with Freddy. In January/February they knew Davis was coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I've been as guilty as anyone about talking possible deals mostly because it's interesting conversation to have. The sox may need another reliever but as I've said earlier I'd like to give Baj or Jenks a shot before making a deal, I think we have some solid in house options to upgrade the pen if need be. To me the logical spot would be to update 3rd base but as of right now I'm fine with Joe, if he could stay around the .250 mark he'd be perfectly fine, he's going to hit 20 homeruns and he's a fantastic 3rd baseman. At this point there could be an upgrade to the team, however I'm perfectly happy with what we have now, I personally don't think we need to make a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 03:50 PM) In January/February they knew Davis was coming? Exactly what I said. The way the story is told.. Freddy coming to the Sox was a long time in the works and they wanted Olivo so the Sox needed a catcher to replace him. John and Jim remember all this better than I.. they were with the guys more than Jen and I were that night. We were too busy laughing at Wille pimpin in the lobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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