Which NBA Coach is Greater?

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think Red had a better eye for talent. Phil is better at bringing the talent together as one. This is a close one. I think if Phil can take this current Laker team to a title, or even get them to the finals, he would almost have to undoubtedly be considered the greatest coach ever. I wouldn't bet on that happening, though. The Lakers have so many holes it's not even funny.

[rangercal]

I think Red had a better eye for talent.  Phil is better at bringing the talent together as one.  This is a close one.  I think if Phil can take this current Laker team to a title,  or even get them to the finals,  he would almost have to undoubtedly be considered the greatest coach ever.  I wouldn't bet on that happening,  though.  The Lakers have so many holes it's not even funny.

I don't see phil doing more than taking LA to the playoffs this year. Maybe 45 wins. On the same token I would think red would take this laker team very far either.

[rangercal]

Bill Russells coaching record :

 

 

 

Reg Season Playoffs

Year Tm Lg W L WPct W L WPct

+--------------+-----+----+-----+----+---+-----+

1967 BOS NBA 60 21 .741 4 5 .444

1968 BOS NBA 54 28 .659 12 7 .632

1969 BOS NBA 48 34 .585 12 6 .667

1974 SEA NBA 36 46 .439

1975 SEA NBA 43 39 .524 4 5 .444

1976 SEA NBA 43 39 .524 2 4 .333

1977 SEA NBA 40 42 .488

1988 SAC NBA 17 41 .293

+--------------+-----+----+-----+----+---+-----+

8 Seasons 341 290 .540 34 27 .557

+--------------+-----+----+-----+----+---+-----+

 

what does this have to do with Red? Notice how good he looked with Boston but when he coached seattle he was about a .500 coach. Meaning even a coach like Bill Russell could coach the celts to a championship (an aging team at that) . Red had them in their prime , what a tough job he had.

Edited June 20, 2005 by rangercal

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't see phil doing more than taking LA to the playoffs this year. Maybe 45 wins. On the same token I would think red would take this laker team very far either.

 

 

45 is a big time stetch. As of right now, the only sure thing they have is Kobe. Odom may or may not be traded. Butler may or may not be traded. They've got no pg, no pf, a starting center that would be better coming off the bench, and no bench. And when I said if Phil can take this team to a title, I meant in the next 2-3 years.

[rangercal]

45 is a big time stetch.  As of right now,  the only sure thing they have is Kobe.  Odom may or may not be traded.  Butler may or may not be traded.  They've got no pg,  no pf,  a starting center that would be better coming off the bench,  and no bench.  And when I said if Phil can take this team to a title,  I meant in the next 2-3 years.

I did say maybe. But I do think they can get the 8th seed.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I did say maybe.  But I do think they can get the 8th seed.

 

Teams better than the Lakers=Spurs, Suns, Mavs, Rockets, Nuggets, Kings, Sonics, Grizzlies. The Warriors should be much improved with Baron Davis for a full season. The Jazz figure to be better with a combination of Kirelinko for a full season, and whoever they get in the draft, somebody like Deron Williams.

I know this will sound funny. But the Clippers are a sleeper in my opinion. The Livingston kid is gonna be special. If they resign Bobby Simmons, i think they've got a better shot at the 8th seed than the Lakers.

[rangercal]

Teams better than the Lakers=Spurs,  Suns,  Mavs,  Rockets,  Nuggets,  Kings,  Sonics,  Grizzlies.  The Warriors should be much improved with Baron Davis for a full season.  The Jazz figure to be better with a combination of Kirelinko for a full season,  and whoever they get in the draft,  somebody like Deron Williams.

I know this will sound funny.  But the Clippers are a sleeper in my opinion.  The Livingston kid is gonna be special.  If they resign Bobby Simmons,  i think they've got a better shot at the 8th seed than the Lakers.

The kings are on their way down and are capable of even missing the playoffs, The sonics may be without Ray Allen. I don't think it's a stretch to say LA can make the playoffs this year. They have a great chance of not making them , sure. But, to say they have no shot of making them is preposterous.

[qwerty]

Teams better than the Lakers=Spurs,  Suns,  Mavs,  Rockets,  Nuggets,  Kings,  Sonics,  Grizzlies.  The Warriors should be much improved with Baron Davis for a full season.  The Jazz figure to be better with a combination of Kirelinko for a full season,  and whoever they get in the draft,  somebody like Deron Williams.

I know this will sound funny.  But the Clippers are a sleeper in my opinion.  The Livingston kid is gonna be special.  If they resign Bobby Simmons,  i think they've got a better shot at the 8th seed than the Lakers.

 

I really like the clippers and i see them resigning simmons. Too bad he is a free agent this year rather than next year because we could use a big guard/small foward like him.

 

I also like the warriors but they won't be able too upgrade very much at all considering they have no cap room available.

[rangercal]

I really like the clippers and i see them resigning simmons. Too bad he is a free agent this year rather than next year because we could use a big guard/small foward like him.

 

I also like the warriors but they won't be able too upgrade very much at all considering they have no cap room available.

I see the only "locks" in the west are Spurs, Suns, Mavs, Rockets, Nuggets, Grizzlies count the sonics in if they re-sign allen.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The kings are on their way down and are capable of even missing the playoffs, The sonics may be without Ray Allen. I don't think it's a stretch to say LA can make the playoffs this year. They have a great chance of not making them , sure. But, to say they have no shot of making them is preposterous.

 

 

It is true that the Kings are no longer an "elite" team. But they're still good for 45-48 wins. Peja had the best season of his career in 04 with Webber missing most of it. So you can count on him to have a pretty good year next season. They've still got Bibby and Brad Miller. They'll have Mobley for a full year. Darius Songalia is a young improving player. They've got solid depth in Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner, and Corliss Williamson. And they should have Bobby Jackson for the full year in 06. The Sonics obviously have to sign Ray Allen to repeat what they did in 05. I'm assuming they will.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Jordan4life_2005

[Jordan4life_2007]

I also like the warriors but they won't be able too upgrade very much at all considering they have no cap room available.

 

 

They don't need to upgrade to be improved next season. A healty Baron Davis single handedly makes them better. Troy Murphy, when healthy, is a double/double machine. Richardson and Dunleavy are good players who are improving. Foyle is horribly overpaid, but he's a good defender and shotblocker. Fisher is a good back-up pg. Michael Pietrus is another guy I see doing well for them. Plus they've got the 9th pick in the draft. They could definitely get atleast a solid role player to strengthen their bench. I'm very much looking forward to watching this team next season. I know it was just a small sample size, and they obviously had nothing to really play for, but they were runnin everybody off the court the last 20 games or so. I think they finished like 16-4. I could definitely see a "Suns" like turn around for these guys.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Jordan4life_2005

[rangercal]

It is true that the Kings are no longer an "elite" team.  But they're still good for 45-48 wins.  Peja had the best season of his career in 04 with Webber missing most of it.  So you can count on him to have a pretty good year next season.  They've still got Bibby and Brad Miller.  They'll have Mobley for a full year.  Darius Songalia is a young improving player.  They've got solid depth in Kenny Thomas,  Brian Skinner,  and Corliss Williamson.  And they should have Bobby Jackson for the full year in 06.  The Sonics obviously have to sign Ray Allen to repeat what the did in 05.  I'm assuming they will.

Another factor for certain teams to miss the playoffs can be health. The kings for instance would be in lots of trouble if the lost Peja. (who has proven to be injury prone at times) I really can see LA and sac fighting for that last playoff spot. If phil misses the playoffs this year, that will be a 1st.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Another factor for certain teams to miss the playoffs can be health. The kings for instance would be in lots of trouble if the lost Peja. (who has proven to be injury prone at times)  I really can see LA and sac fighting for that last playoff spot. If phil misses the playoffs this year, that will be a 1st.

 

 

Health is obviouly pivotal. But there's no way of knowing who's gonna get hurt and when. So I have no choice but to look at a teams overall outlook as if they're gonna be healthy.

[rangercal]

Health is obviouly pivotal.  But there's no way of knowing who's gonna get hurt and when.  So I have no choice but to look at a teams overall outlook as if they're gonna be healthy.

agreed. I'm just adding to my point that it's not impossible for LA to make the playoffs.

[qwerty]

They don't need to upgrade to be improved next season.  A healty Baron Davis single handedly makes them better.  Troy Murphy,  when healthy,  is a double/doublr machine.  Richardson and Dunleavy are good players who are improving.  Foyle is horribly overpaid,  but he's a good defender and shotblocker.  Fisher is a good back-up pg.  Michael Pietrus is another guy I see doing well for them.  Plus they've got the 9th pick in the draft.  They could definitely get atleast a solid role player to strengthen their bench.  I'm very much looking forward to watching this team next season.  I know it was just a small sample size,  and they obviously had nothing to really play for,  but they were runnin everybody off the court the last 20 games or so.  I think they finished like 16-4.  I could definitely see a "Suns" like turn around for these guys.

 

I agree with everything you said. One thing i would like to see though is for murphy to stop trying to be a antoine walker lite ( except he can play defense unlike whatever walker does out there). A .414 shooting percentage for someone nearly seven feet tall is pretty inexcusable. It's not even that he cannot shoot it's his shot selection which is so poor. It's also not like he is the number one option and he is getting double teamed often.

Edited June 20, 2005 by qwerty

[Jordan4life_2007]

I agree with everything you said. One thing i would like to see though is for murphy to stop trying to be a antoine walker lite ( except he can play defense unlike whatever walker does out there). A .414 shooting percentage for someone nearly seven feet tall is pretty inexcusable. It's not even that he cannot shoot it's his shot selection which is so poor. It's also not like he is the number one option and he is getting double teamed often.

 

 

I totally agree. 7 footers who shoot 41% make me wanna hurl. Murphy has a really good perimiter game for a big guy. But he tends to abuse it. He needs to find a balance between shooting from the outside and banging down-low. But the dude is an absolute beast on the boards. Maybe he can teach Eddy?

[Jordan4life_2007]

agreed. I'm just adding to my point that it's not impossible for LA to make the playoffs.

 

 

Anything is possible. I was just stating why I don't think it will happen. Many people thought the Lakers would be a playoff team this year. Something like a 7th or 8th seed. But you're not getting anywhere in the western conference with Lamar Odom at pf and no low post presense. That's not even getting into all the other holes they have.

[Rowand44]

The fact that this is even being discussed is utterly insane.  I don't feel like adding anything because it will just enfuriate me more than I already am.

uh huh. They've both won 9 championships, Auerbach won his when there was what 8 teams in the league?? While Phil has done his with more parody and many more teams. This is a good topic for you to say this is utterly insane makes you well....utterly insane.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

so red had no stars?

 

find where I said that

[Rowand44]

Auerbach had 0 Stars, Bill Russell sucked.

See punch you did say that.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

damn you are good Rowand!!!

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 20, 2005 -> 03:29 PM)

uh huh.  They've both won 9 championships, Auerbach won his when there was what 8 teams in the league??  While Phil has done his with more parody and many more teams.  This is a good topic for you to say this is utterly insane makes you well....utterly insane.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You weren't alive during Red's years, your a Bulls fan who lived and died with them at one point in your life. I would rather listen to somebody who had a clue on the topic because frankly you don't.

 

Once again, why I don't post at Soxtalk as often as I'd like.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

You weren't alive during Red's years, your a Bulls fan who lived and died with them at one point in your life.  I would rather listen to somebody who had a clue on the topic because frankly you don't.

 

Once again, why I don't post at Soxtalk as often as I'd like.

 

You weren't alive then either and you probably live and die boston teams.

 

Your point?

[rangercal]

find where I said that

 

You didn't say it in those words

 

I went with Red. I feel that coaches are unfairly penalized for loyalty in staying in one place while guys like Larry Brown and Bill Parcels get extra credit for fleeing and doing well some place else. Phil is obviously a great coach and I hat eto hold Shaq/MJ/Pip/Kobe against him but we'll get to see how good he is if he can win with this Laker team

If you're going to hold that aggainst phil. You should hold Russell, Cousy and those deep celtic teams against Aerbach.

[rangercal]

You weren't alive during Red's years, your a Bulls fan who lived and died with them at one point in your life.  I would rather listen to somebody who had a clue on the topic because frankly you don't.

 

Once again, why I don't post at Soxtalk as often as I'd like.

HE GONE!