El Duque

[Milkman delivers]

I guess we can say so much for that garbage about his physical being the best KW has ever seen? That, or KW doesn't know any healthy people.

[Chisoxfn]

I guess we can say so much for that garbage about his physical being the best KW has ever seen?  That, or KW doesn't know any healthy people.

I think we all know that was spin. It had to be. On 2nd thought, enough negativity from me for one night. I'm an optimist/realist and frankly I'm in such a good mood over the whole series. Seeing two wins while in Chicago and than getting home to see come back and beat the Dodgers.

 

Plus Bmac will be in the rotation, WOOT

[Soxfest]

Sox have every right to be pissed.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Soxfest

[needauribe]

Let's just see El Duque close for the rest of the season and when his arm gets tired he can pinch run. Edited June 20, 2005 by needauribe

[Bubba Philips]

Sox have every right to be pissed.

El Duque scares me every time he pitches. I heard he had some great seasons with the Yankees.. I, however didn't see him pitch very often. I did see McCarthy pitch albeit TV but he did look dominating in preseason, great against the cubs but when we played texas he gave upsome gopher balls.. I also am aware that he has given up his share of homeruns at AAA.. Remember Diaz after he pitched that one game after his return he said " I just trusted my catcher and let him call the whole game. " I believe Brandon has the stuff and Pierzinsky can bring the best out him. If El Duque does come back strong we could use a strong long reliever..o my knowledge none of our relievers have went longer than 3 innings at a stretch. I can't remember the last rookie whitesox phenom pitcher aside from Wilson Alvarez.

[kev211]

I can't remember the last rookie whitesox phenom pitcher aside from Wilson Alvarez.

Welcome to soxtalk

 

Mark Buehrle?

[Jabroni]

I've said it for a while, but Bmac is gonna take over the spot in the rotation and he's not going back to the minors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's gotta have a few decent starts and not give up 4 homers a game though.

[YASNY]

Welcome to soxtalk

 

Mark Buehrle?

 

Mark wasn't exactly labelled as a phenom. He was labeled more like Mark who?

[LosMediasBlancas]

The guy has been doing well for the most part and is being honest about some discomfort in his arm. Geez. That's the kind of crap we don't need from pitchers around here.

[southsider2k5]

KW and Ozzie are overreacting big time. They knew what they were getting themselves into with El Duque and the plan was for him to have 4 "rests" in the season. He's one of our big game pitchers and we're going to need him for when we face the Twins. They knew what they were getting themselves into, so just deal with it.

 

I disagree fully. The whole team is built on trusting each other. If Hernandez isn't being honest with the team, we might be giving away games, that we could be winning. That isn't going to sit well with him teammates.

 

This isn't about Hernandez being hurt, its about him lying to his manager and GM.

[jackie hayes]

I disagree fully.  The whole team is built on trusting each other.  If Hernandez isn't being honest with the team, we might be giving away games, that we could be winning.  That isn't going to sit well with him teammates.

 

This isn't about Hernandez being hurt, its about him lying to his manager and GM.

Like when Ozzie visits the mound and the pitcher tells him, 'yeah, skip, I'm feeling pretty tired, I think you should pull me now'?

 

Isn't this what pitchers do? They say, oh, it's a little tight, but it's not too bad, I can pitch through it. They lie to themselves more than to the manager. That's why you have to rely on your coaches so much to detect those mechanical flaws that come with health problems, and why you never leave someone in b/c of anything he says.

 

Duque's getting his $8 mil no matter what, and in all likelihood it's the last money he's gonna get as a pitcher. He was hurting somewhat, nobody knows how much, but he still thought he could contribute. I'm not gonna blame someone who wants to play hurt, especially when he's got nothing to gain from it personally.

[Guest JimH]

El Duque has huge personal incentive to pitch.

 

He has a big bonus clause for Comeback Player of the Year, plus a bonus clause based on number of starts (which it does not appear he'll reach). So there is definitely a financial motivator there.

 

This is very good that KW and Ozzie step in now. They drew the line in the sand ... be straight up with us and tell us what's going on so we can deal with it. El Duque is a proud guy and most athletes are like that but this is all about the team, vs. personal stuff. It is very good they are all on the same page.

[southsider2k5]

Like when Ozzie visits the mound and the pitcher tells him, 'yeah, skip, I'm feeling pretty tired, I think you should pull me now'?

 

Isn't this what pitchers do?  They say, oh, it's a little tight, but it's not too bad, I can pitch through it.  They lie to themselves more than to the manager.  That's why you have to rely on your coaches so much to detect those mechanical flaws that come with health problems, and why you never leave someone in b/c of anything he says.

 

Duque's getting his $8 mil no matter what, and in all likelihood it's the last money he's gonna get as a pitcher.  He was hurting somewhat, nobody knows how much, but he still thought he could contribute.  I'm not gonna blame someone who wants to play hurt, especially when he's got nothing to gain from it personally.

 

Big, big difference between being tired and being injured.

[JUGGERNAUT]

His time on the 15 day DL is retroactive to last Wed so it looks like he'll miss 2 starts at the most.

 

KW more so than Oz is upset with El-D because he's not being forth-coming in all this. He waits a day before his next start to tell the team he doesn't feel good enough to go. That makes KW use BMac like a ping-pong ball & he's not going to do that for any one.

 

I think KW was sympathetic until the MRI showed a pristine condition.

By pristine I'm assuming there's not even a glimer of fear that there's a major reason for the source of pain.

 

I've never read anything about El-D's conditioning & unless Schneider weigh's in on this we the fan remain in the dark. But pain in the neck & shoulder could mean a whole LOT of things that have nothing to do with his arm.

 

Still you can't argue with a 10-3 2.74 ERA record in post-season.

[jackie hayes]

Big, big difference between being tired and being injured.

From the pitcher's perspective? I'm tired, but I can get this guy. It hurts a bit, but I can still throw all my pitches. Seems like the same attitude to me.

 

Especially when one of Duque's most prominent injuries was tired shoulder.

 

It sounds like he admitted that he had some discomfort, but he told the coaches that he could tough it out, it wasn't bad. I imagine he was telling himself the same thing. There's a difference between that, and simply lying to your manager.

[Dick Allen]

His time on the 15 day DL is retroactive to last Wed so it looks like he'll miss 2 starts at the most.

 

KW more so than Oz is upset with El-D because he's not being forth-coming in all this.  He waits a day before his next start to tell the team he doesn't feel good enough to go.  That makes KW use BMac like a ping-pong ball & he's not  going to do that for any one. 

 

I think KW was sympathetic until the MRI showed a pristine condition.

By pristine I'm assuming there's not even a glimer of fear that there's a major reason for the source of pain.

 

I've never read anything about El-D's conditioning & unless Schneider weigh's in on this we the fan remain in the dark.  But pain in the neck & shoulder could mean a whole LOT of things that have nothing to do with his arm.

 

Still you can't argue with a 10-3 2.74 ERA record in post-season.

 

They took MRIs on Danny Wright and Lorenzo Barcelo and found nothing. KW essentially called Barcelo a pussy for complaining about pain, and he wound up having surgery that basically ended his once-promising career. Wright wound up having surgery on his elbow and shoulder. I don't trust that his shoulder is in pristine condition. If it really was, why, going back to August of last season, has he been DL'd 3 times for it? There has to be something wrong.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Dick Allen

[JUGGERNAUT]

They took MRIs on Danny Wright and Lorenzo Barcelo and found nothing. KW essentially called Barcelo a pussy for complaining about pain, and he wound up having surgery that basically ended his once-promising career. Wright wound up having surgery on his elbow and shoulder. I don't trust that his shoulder is in pristine condition. If it really was, why, going back to August of last season, has he been DL'd 3 times for it? There has to be something wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I personally would prefer KW to shut his big mouth when it comes to health related issues & let Schneider do all the talking. But at this point I'm not convinced there is something there. He's either 39 or pushing 40 the best we know.

 

From the comments I've read stemming from Fisk, Kenny Rogers, Clemens, Johnson, Bonds, & a multitude of other players near or about the age of 40 pain is an everyday experience when playing this game. You have to work twice as hard on your body to battle against it & I'm just not sure if El-D has been doing that or whether he understands it. He's such a gifted pitcher that I get the feeling it's always come natural to him & he's never had to work that hard it. How can you blame him? He's a 4 pitch pitcher with different points of delivery.

 

It woudn't be a bad idea if the White Sox were to just assign a personal trainer to hi m if he doesn't have one already.

[bjm676]

I don't believe Duque will be going anywhere. One of the main reasons he was signed was his awesome postseason record. It said in the paper today, that they would want him to have at least one rehab start before he pitches for the Sox again, whether it's starting or relieving. They knew what they were getting into when they signed him. As for McCarthy, I'm sure the Sox can carry 12 pitchers again.

[JUGGERNAUT]

As for McCarthy, I'm sure the Sox can carry 12 pitchers again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's not going to happen. One thing that is becoming a common theme in all of Ozzie's & KW's quotes is an 11 man staff.

 

I'm trying to think of why KW would air these comments in public. This is something better left in private between the team & the players. The only thing I can think of is he's trying to prevent damage to El-D's trade value by telling the world the MRI shows nothing is wrong with him.

 

Perhaps there is a trade in the works after all.

[GreatScott82]

If BMac pans out- then I say put El-duque in the pen (should help his shoulder with limited innings) and release Shingo. If BMac struggles some more- I say give El-duque one more chance- if that fails- Then KW should start thinking about trading for another starter. Because God only knows- we don't want to go back to the 5th starter black-hole.

[dmbjeff]

El Duque scares me every time he pitches.  I heard he had some great seasons with the Yankees.. I, however didn't see him pitch very often. I did see McCarthy pitch albeit TV but he did look dominating in preseason, great against the cubs but when we played texas he gave upsome gopher balls.. I also am aware that he has given up his share of homeruns at AAA..    Remember Diaz after he pitched that one game after his return  he said " I just  trusted my catcher and let him call the whole game. "  I believe Brandon has the stuff and Pierzinsky can bring the best out him. If El Duque does come back strong we could use a strong long reliever..o my knowledge none of our relievers have went longer than 3 innings at a stretch.  I can't remember the last rookie whitesox phenom pitcher aside from Wilson Alvarez.

 

 

Jason Bere in 93 was a phenomenal rookie that season, he came up and really helped seal the deal for the pitching staff. He was never the same after that, but he was a rookie who came up and performed.

[nitetrain8601]

I don't believe Duque will be going anywhere.  One of the main reasons he was signed was his awesome postseason record.  It said in the paper today, that they would want him to have at least one rehab start before he pitches for the Sox again, whether it's starting or relieving. They knew what they were getting into when they signed him.  As for McCarthy, I'm sure the Sox can carry 12 pitchers again.

 

Exactly. He'll be here. Again, I say just shut him down until after the ASG.

[ChWRoCk2]

If BMac pans out- then I say put El-duque in the pen (should help his shoulder with limited innings) and release Shingo. If BMac struggles some more- I say give El-duque one more chance- if that fails- Then KW should start thinking about trading for another starter. Because God only knows- we don't want to go back to the 5th starter black-hole.

the fifth spot is a weakness for every team, all teams just need to deal with trying to find a way to win on that day, you cant have five aces on a team with an era below 3, it is possible but one guy has to suffer all the losses, i think we are lucky we are in the position we are in, we have plenty of guys on our rotation who are able to eat up the innings, hermanson can go the extra mile, along with cotts, that doesnt even hurt us either, because politte can take over the closer role for a game. I'd love to find a guy like kip wells or casey fossum or someone to eat up the innings, but we truly dont need it.

 

Edit: if your going to add anyone to our bullpen/long relief, it might as well be an old sox player because they know how our system works and are familiar with some of our players

Edited June 20, 2005 by chi-guy2

[nvxplorer]

Hernandez, who is listed at 35 years old

This is something I don't understand. Baseball Reference has El Duque listed as being almost 40 yrs. old - 11/11/65. Why the discrepancy?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hernaor01.shtml

Edited June 20, 2005 by nvxplorer

[mr_genius]

remember, El Dookie...im mean Duque has always been solid in the playoffs.

 

he'll probably suck for the sox though.