Cleveland is a growing threat

[Balta1701]

About 3 or 4 weeks ago, the Texas Rangers were absolutely on fire. They won like 8 in a row, beat up on us, and even tied the Angels. They've since regressed somewhat, and are now just a good team chasing Anaheim.

 

About 2 weeks ago, the Cubs were the hottest team in baseball. Everything was clicking, and their young pitchers were filling in the holes for Prior and Wood. Now, they've lost like 5 or 6 in a row, and fallen nearly 10 games back of St. Louis.

 

Cleveland is not a bad team. They're not going to finish with a winning percentage of .250. But even the worst teams get hot. Cleveland will need a couple more parts to make a run at us. They could still potentially do some damage, especially since I believe we have 10 more games left with them.

 

But I'm still more scared of Minnesota. Minnesota still has a far better bullpen no matter what Cleveland's bullpen ERA tells you, and they have far better starting pitching. Cleveland has a shot at being there in the wild card race. But there's no good reason to think that they're good enough to win this division...with the pitching that the other 2 teams have.

[Balta1701]

From ESPN.com's Daily Quickie

 

Forgive me, fellow Instant Historians, if I don't leap onto Cleveland's bandwagon as it won its 9th straight game Sunday and pulled within a game of the Twins for the AL wild card.

 

I've seen this summer movie before. Last year, in fact, and it was a dud:

 

It was mid-August, and the Tribe had won 10 of 11 to pull within a game of Minnesota. Hysteria ensued. They promptly lost their next 9 and finished 12 GB the Twins.

[YASNY]

I wonder how much concern the 2000 Cleveland Indians had with the White Sox. I've been a baseball fan too long to just dismiss somebody because they are not expected to contend. The 1969 Cubs had an 8 game lead in August, and were playing great. Were they concerned with the Mets?

 

Crunch all the numbers you want about win totals if we do this or that. Calculate how easy it should be. Then go look at the last two weeks of the 1964 NL season, or the Yankees run at the end of 1978.

[Rowand44]

I wonder how much concern the 2000 Cleveland Indians had with the White Sox. I've been a baseball fan too long to just dismiss somebody because they are not expected to contend.  The 1969 Cubs had an 8 game lead in August, and were playing great.  Were they concerned with the Mets? 

 

Crunch all the numbers you want about win totals if we do this or that.  Calculate how easy it should be.  Then go look at the last two weeks of the 1964 NL season, or the Yankees run at the end of 1978.

Well they were expected to contend though, once again they're not out of the race because we still play them 11 times and they're 8.5 out and playing great ball right now it's just my personal opinion that they aren't that good of a team and they really have no chance but like I said that's just a personal opinion.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Minnesota still has a far better bullpen no matter what Cleveland's bullpen ERA tells you, and they have far better starting pitching.  Cleveland has a shot at being there in the wild card race.  But there's no good reason to think that they're good enough to win this division...with the pitching that the other 2 teams have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well they haven't proved it this year. Look at it any way you want, but CLE has one of the best pitching staffs in MLB right now. Better than the Twinkees.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...t=0&season=2005

 

What is surprising is that they were expected to have a solid offense. They are 24th in R's. But the Twinkees have fallen to 16th & are just 20 R's better the tribe. If the bats are waking up in CLE in the hot month of Jun the Twinkees could be prime for the killing.

 

What a week ahead!

Min entertains the Tigs, then has to face El Cabello in Milw

Cle entertains the Red Sox & then Griffey's Reds

Det travels to Min & then onto Arizona

Sox entertain the Royals & then the Lee's Cubs

 

What a week ahead for the Cub:

Having been swept, humilated, pulverized, & every other thing that would want them to hide their heads in shame at the hands of the NYY$'s they continue their road trip in Milw to face the Brew Crew. There's a good chance they'll come limping into the Cell this weekend where the White Sox can hope to put them out of the misery. :lol

 

Don't be surprised if we're the Twinkees are near 10 gb by this time next week.

Edited June 20, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[3E8]

One 'Hawkism' that's actually quite true works here:

 

"You're never as good as you look on a winning streak and you're never as bad as you look on a losing streak."

 

They don't scare me too much.

Edited June 20, 2005 by 3E8

[AddisonStSox]

There are a lot of people on here that need a big-time serving of humble pie.

 

The Tribe is right on the heels of the Twins, but why? They have both the #1 Team ERA and #1 Bullpen ERA. Yes, that's right, the bullpen that was "horrendous and going to cost them the season."

 

Grady Sizemore has been the spark of the team's recent success as he has set the table and really given the guys something or someone to rally around.

 

Interesting note, since firing hitting coach Eddie Murray the have every game save one.

[southsider2k5]

I gotta admit a St. Louis/Sox World Series would be mighty nice!!

 

That would be the ultimate WS

[JUGGERNAUT]

That would be the ultimate WS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Better than White Sox vs Cub? Not for me. I hope to live to see the day we sweep them in the World Series.

[sox-r-us]

The one good thing about the Tribe getting hot is that they will play the twinkies hard down the stretch as they go for the wild card at least

 

That can only help us....

 

Put me down in the camp of I do fear the Injuns as much as the Tribe. CC Sabathia, Milwood, Westbrook can be very dangerous as a trio of pitchers down the stretch.

[southsider2k5]

Better than White Sox vs Cub?  Not for me.  I hope to live to see the day we sweep them in the World Series.

 

Not a chance. The Cubs going 0-162 would be the only way that would improve a STL/CWS world series. The Cubs getting into the playoffs, let alone the World Series, would take attention away from us, and that is the last thing I want to hear about.

 

I believe this smilie said it best when he said :fthecubs

[kapkomet]

Well they were expected to contend though, once again they're not out of the race because we still play them 11 times and they're 8.5 out and playing great ball right now it's just my personal opinion that they aren't that good of a team and they really have no chance but like I said that's just a personal opinion.

The White Sox were *not* supposed to contend.

 

Most "pundits" think the White Sox are ready for a prime choke job starting about any day now.

 

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE ANY TEAM YOU PLAY, NO MATTER HOW BAD.

 

Just take care of one game at a time, and everything else takes care of itself. But the second you start dissing teams, that's when they sneak up on you.

 

Kansas s***ty comes in here with the worst record in baseball. Does that mean an automatic sweep? Hell no. If we think like that, they'll sweep us, sure as hell.

 

One game at a time, friends, the rest will take care of itself *and*

 

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE ANY TEAM YOU PLAY, NO MATTER HOW BAD.

 

Just for emphasis.

 

Edited June 20, 2005 by kapkomet

[sayitaintso]

The White Sox were *not* supposed to contend.

 

Most "pundits" think the White Sox are ready for a prime choke job starting about any day now.

 

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE ANY TEAM YOU PLAY, NO MATTER HOW BAD.

 

Just take care of one game at a time, and everything else takes care of itself.  But the second you start dissing teams, that's when they sneak up on you.

 

Kansas s***ty comes in here with the worst record in baseball.  Does that mean an automatic sweep?  Hell no.  If we think like that, they'll sweep us, sure as hell.

 

One game at a time, friends, the rest will take care of itself *and*

 

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE ANY TEAM YOU PLAY, NO MATTER HOW BAD.

 

Just for emphasis.

 

That was the sox's problem two years ago. When Detroit almost set the record for most losses or something like that, the sox had trouble beating them. I agree, just take one game at a time, and time will tell itself.

[bjm676]

Better than White Sox vs Cub?  Not for me.  I hope to live to see the day we sweep them in the World Series.

 

I'd never want to see that. I'd be too afraid the Cubs would win, let alone all the media attention the Cubs would get. Sox/Stl would be ideal. Not only would it be a great matchup, it would be a Cub fan's nightmare.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm really not buying Cleveland as a real contender. If they're still at this point around the break after going through a tougher schedule I'll reconsider, but not as of now. The only thing that impresses me about their team right now is their pen. Wickman pitching more effectively and Rhodes returning to his old form has created a formidable pen. We've discussed how inconsistent their lineup has been, but I'd like to make some comments about their starting staff, which I believe is pretty weak for a potential contender. Kevin Millwood is the staff ace right now. Yeah, that's the same guy who's ERA was almost 5 last year, and was over 4 in the NL the year before. There's no way in hell this guy's ERA is under 3 much longer. Cliff Lee has some talent, but we all saw what he did last year in the second half. We'll see what happens. Either way, he's a passable #2 at best. I am a firm believer that CC Sabathia is the most overrated pitcher not named Wood. I know he has a pretty good history against us, but that doesn't mean much in my book. He's gonna face us 3 times tops. He's just not consistently solid, meaning his ERA is going to stay around 4, much like his career numbers. We have 4 starters with an ERA lower than his right now. Not exactly what you want from your supposed ace. Their other starters have been getting hammered. Their rotation doesn't scare me at all.

 

These guys are still 8.5 games behind us after going on a monster win streak against some weak teams. They could win 8 more in a row while we concurrently lose 8 in a row and we'd still be in first place. Lets wait to see a bit more from them before we start worrying about them. You can say all you want about some of the great charges by teams, but remember, the 69 Cubs were 8-18 in their last 26 games. I highly doubt the Sox go through a stretch that bad. Unless the Sox absolutely fall apart, the Twins are the only team I see as a threat, who have a better lineup, comparable pen, and stronger rotation (I want some of what you're smoking if you really think Millwood is going to finish with a better ERA than Santana).

[CanOfCorn]

The one good thing about the Tribe getting hot is that they will play the twinkies hard down the stretch as they go for the wild card at least

 

That can only help us....

 

 

This is something that we need to keep in the back of our minds too as we debate this. If Cleveland and Minnesota are beating up on each other, that is to our benefit. Also, if Detroit and KC keep playing the way they've been playing the last couple of weeks, I can't see either catching up.

 

But, again, I don't worry about either Cleveland or Minnesota or any other team until the first pitch is thrown in the first game of the series.

[sayitaintso]

I'm really not buying Cleveland as a real contender. If they're still at this point around the break after going through a tougher schedule I'll reconsider, but not as of now. The only thing that impresses me about their team right now is their pen. Wickman pitching more effectively and Rhodes returning to his old form has created a formidable pen. We've discussed how inconsistent their lineup has been, but I'd like to make some comments about their starting staff, which I believe is pretty weak for a potential contender. Kevin Millwood is the staff ace right now. Yeah, that's the same guy who's ERA was almost 5 last year, and was over 4 in the NL the year before. There's no way in hell this guy's ERA is under 3 much longer. Cliff Lee has some talent, but we all saw what he did last year in the second half. We'll see what happens. Either way, he's a passable #2 at best. I am a firm believer that CC Sabathia is the most overrated pitcher not named Wood. I know he has a pretty good history against us, but that doesn't mean much in my book. He's gonna face us 3 times tops. He's just not consistently solid, meaning his ERA is going to stay around 4, much like his career numbers. We have 4 starters with an ERA lower than his right now. Not exactly what you want from your supposed ace. Their other starters have been getting hammered. Their rotation doesn't scare me at all.

 

These guys are still 8.5 games behind us after going on a monster win streak against some weak teams. They could win 8 more in a row while we concurrently lose 8 in a row and we'd still be in first place. Lets wait to see a bit more from them before we start worrying about them. You can say all you want about some of the great charges by teams, but remember, the 69 Cubs were 8-18 in their last 26 games. I highly doubt the Sox go through a stretch that bad. Unless the Sox absolutely fall apart, the Twins are the only team I see as a threat, who have a better lineup, comparable pen, and stronger rotation (I want some of what you're smoking if you really think Millwood is going to finish with a better ERA than Santana).

Good post, but as of now cleveland is a minor threat IMO.

[nvxplorer]

The Indians are a threat - to the Twins.

 

They have a shot at the wild card, but until they win 20 in a row, the Sox don't have much to worry about.

[nitetrain8601]

Everyone is a threat to the White Sox. It's almost halfway point and the White Sox are no longer a team that could sneak up on teams. People want to beat them and "show the baseball world that they are not forreal" similar to Baltimore and the Dodgers. Tonight, the KC Royals are a threat. Therefore we must demolish them.

 

Indians are a threat and Minny is a threat as well.

[sayitaintso]

Now its almost the "Us Against the World" mentality. Everyone wants a peice of us to prove to the baseball world that they are forreal and we are not. Just as long as we keep winning everything is fine.

[ChWRoCk2]

The royals are on somewhat of a streak also, they can still catch us but of course nobody is worried, the indians havent been able to beat us yet this year and we now talk of them coming for us, this is ridiculous

[Steve9347]

Id love to agree with you, but the one problem i see with this Sox team is still their offense. I worry about it.

 

Any team that can be shutout by Shawn Estes needs to get something going with their offense big time.

[Balta1701]

Any team that can be shutout by Shawn Estes needs to get something going with their offense big time.

Games like that one are games where we stop playing so-called "Smart ball". You see them from this team every week or so - they stop pushing people over after falling behind early,a nd then everyone starts swinging for the fences again.

[sayitaintso]

Games like that one are games where we stop playing so-called "Smart ball".  You see them from this team every week or so - they stop pushing people over after falling behind early,a nd then everyone starts swinging for the fences again.

Just like last year, and the year before, and the year before.......

[Steve9347]

maybe someone needs to realize that we are only 68 games into this season. there are still 96 games left, or rather 59% of the entire season left. 8.5 games is not that much to make up in that time.

 

Have you guys been White Sox fans for more than 2 months? We are a team that is known to blow it in the second half. Look at our 2003 team! How did they blow it?

 

The Twins are a well managed ball club that is really, really good. I don't fear the Indians as much as the Twins, but the Tribe are an incredibly well balanced offensive club that should have been clubbing all season, and they have a good rotation.

 

I love this White Sox team, and I pray that they do well, and I would cry like a little girl if they won the Series. HOWEVER, this season is still young, and there are many battles ahead. We may have come back to win against the Dodgers two games in a row, but some would say that we shouldn't have been down to a .500 team so late in the games anyway.

 

We need to start hitting, and not waiting for the other team's starters to roll their ankles.

 

Let's go Sox!