Cleveland is a growing threat

[nvxplorer]

Id love to agree with you, but the one problem i see with this Sox team is still their offense.  I worry about it.

 

Any team that can be shutout by Shawn Estes needs to get something going with their offense big time.

I disagree. The game against Estes was one game. It doesn't mean anything.

 

The Sox are 5th in runs scored. Their BA sucks, but it has been steadily rising. The only teams with more runs scored are Texas, Boston, Baltimore and New York. Baltimore's pitching is okay, but the other three suck, staffwise.

 

The Sox offense is just fine, and if Frank continues to be Frank, it will only get better.

[Balta1701]

The Sox are 5th in runs scored. Their BA sucks, but it has been steadily rising. The only teams with more runs scored are Texas, Boston, Baltimore and New York. Baltimore's pitching is okay, but the other three suck, staffwise.

 

The Sox offense is just fine, and if Frank continues to be Frank, it will only get better.

 

A significant portion of that ranking, however, is due to 1 game against Russ Ortiz and 2 games in Coors field.

[Steve9347]

maybe someone needs to realize that we are only 68 games into this season. there are still 96 games left, or rather 59% of the entire season left. 8.5 games is not that much to make up in that time.

 

Have you guys been White Sox fans for more than 2 months? We are a team that is known to blow it in the second half. Look at our 2003 team! How did they blow it?

 

The Twins are a well managed ball club that is really, really good. I don't fear the Indians as much as the Twins, but the Tribe are an incredibly well balanced offensive club that should have been clubbing all season, and they have a good rotation.

 

I love this White Sox team, and I pray that they do well, and I would cry like a little girl if they won the Series. HOWEVER, this season is still young, and there are many battles ahead. We may have come back to win against the Dodgers two games in a row, but some would say that we shouldn't have been down to a .500 team so late in the games anyway.

 

We need to start hitting, and not waiting for the other team's starters to roll their ankles.

 

Let's go Sox!

[Balta1701]

Have you guys been White Sox fans for more than 2 months? We are a team that is known to blow it in the second half. Look at our 2003 team! How did they blow it?

They sent Esteban Loaiza out to pitch against the Twinkies with a cold. Loaiza fell apart. The season fell apart immediately after that loss. Loaiza cost himself the Cy Young award on that day.

[SoxFan562004]

I disagree. The game against Estes was one game. It doesn't mean anything.

 

The Sox are 5th in runs scored. Their BA sucks, but it has been steadily rising. The only teams with more runs scored are Texas, Boston, Baltimore and New York. Baltimore's pitching is okay, but the other three suck, staffwise.

 

The Sox offense is just fine, and if Frank continues to be Frank, it will only get better.

I think Estes pitched well against the tribe in his last outing, obviously didn't get the win, but I think he held them to like 2 ER's in 6-7 innings

[CanOfCorn]

maybe someone needs to realize that we are only 68 games into this season. there are still 96 games left, or rather 59% of the entire season left. 8.5 games is not that much to make up in that time.

 

Have you guys been White Sox fans for more than 2 months? We are a team that is known to blow it in the second half. Look at our 2003 team! How did they blow it?

 

The Twins are a well managed ball club that is really, really good. I don't fear the Indians as much as the Twins, but the Tribe are an incredibly well balanced offensive club that should have been clubbing all season, and they have a good rotation.

 

I love this White Sox team, and I pray that they do well, and I would cry like a little girl if they won the Series. HOWEVER, this season is still young, and there are many battles ahead. We may have come back to win against the Dodgers two games in a row, but some would say that we shouldn't have been down to a .500 team so late in the games anyway.

 

We need to start hitting, and not waiting for the other team's starters to roll their ankles.

 

Let's go Sox!

 

But again...they shouldn't worry about a team that is behind them...until they play them. If they start worrying about that stuff, then the will start to lose that lead. They are playing the Royals and they should worry about the Royals. Then this weekend, they are playing the Cubs and they should worry about the Cubs. The rest will play itself out.

 

And for the record, this team looks to be gaining confidence day by day. The more they win games like the last two, the more they believe they can win EVERY game. And that will protect them from the let-downs they battled last year.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm not saying we have the thing won, but worry about the Indians when the actually get close or start playing us. The team has a lower batting average than us for Christ's sake, and it's not even close. It's been the Twins for the last 3 years and it's still the Twins this year. If we can just avoid a major slump the rest of the division outside of the Twins shouldn't be an issue.

[nvxplorer]

A significant portion of that ranking, however, is due to 1 game against Russ Ortiz and 2 games in Coors field.

Yes, but I'm sure the same holds true for the other teams as well.

[jackie hayes]

It is WAY too early for this lead to be considered safe. So many people here are dismissing Cleveland as if they were the Royals. They have pitching -- Sabathia, Westbrook, and Millwood are all good pitchers, imo. Lee -- I don't know anymore. But they're not hitting him yet. Okay, Elarton's weak. But overall, that's a quality rotation. They have Wickman, Rhodes, and Riske on cruise control in the pen. And the lineup is very, very solid. Hafner, Broussard, Sizemore, Gerut, and of course Coco are all solid hitters, at least. Peralta's hitting fairly well. Martinez WILL wake up one of these days, too. Jose Hernandez will always suck, but overall, that's a potent lineup. They're on a hot streak, but that's a strong group of players nonetheless.

 

Meanwhile, don't think that the Sox are invincible. The pitchers we've got, how many have we seen melt down before? The hitting has only picked up in, what, the last few weeks or so? Even that?

 

Everyone except for KC is a threat, a real threat. Even Detroit. (And believe me, I was as dismissive of Detroit as anyone before the season started, so I say that through clenched teeth.) All I'm saying is, have some perspective -- there is still a LOT of baseball left this year.

[ZoomSlowik]

It is WAY too early for this lead to be considered safe.  So many people here are dismissing Cleveland as if they were the Royals.  They have pitching -- Sabathia, Westbrook, and Millwood are all good pitchers, imo.  Lee -- I don't know anymore.  But they're not hitting him yet.  Okay, Elarton's weak.  But overall, that's a quality rotation.  They have Wickman, Rhodes, and Riske on cruise control in the pen.  And the lineup is very, very solid.  Hafner, Broussard, Sizemore, Gerut, and of course Coco are all solid hitters, at least.  Peralta's hitting fairly well.  Martinez WILL wake up one of these days, too.  Jose Hernandez will always suck, but overall, that's a potent lineup.  They're on a hot streak, but that's a strong group of players nonetheless.

 

Meanwhile, don't think that the Sox are invincible.  The pitchers we've got, how many have we seen melt down before?  The hitting has only picked up in, what, the last few weeks or so?  Even that?

 

Everyone except for KC is a threat, a real threat.  Even Detroit.  (And believe me, I was as dismissive of Detroit as anyone before the season started, so I say that through clenched teeth.)  All I'm saying is, have some perspective -- there is still a LOT of baseball left this year.

 

That "solid lineup" is hitting .250, and their team leader has only 9 homers. The only guy performing under his level is Martinez (and I'm making that conclusion based on that one great season last year). As for the rotation, Westbrook's ERA is over 4.50, which is pre-2005 Garland, Elarton is worse, and Millwood is not going to be this good all year. Honestly, I've never seen a group get so worried about a team that's going to finish with about 85 wins, tops. Don't even get me started on Detroit. We can play .500 the rest of the way and finish with over 90 wins. Chill out. Start worrying about who's creeping up in August or September when it matters. Trust me, the Indians won't be there by then. If I'm drastically wrong, I'll worry about it then. Given the Sox schedule from here to the break compared to Cleveland's, I'd be surprised if they are still within ten games. Plenty of teams go on streaks at some point or another, and the Tribe hit theirs against some teams they should beat. But after playing Baltimore, New York, Boston, and Texas, they should be back to a non-factor.

Edited June 20, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[jackie hayes]

I'm not "worrying" about it, I just think this is the same sort of thing that becomes ugly after losses. 'Everyone else sucks, except maybe the Twins. 8 game lead, that's such a huge cushion, this thing's basically sewn up.' No wonder people get peeved after a loss, if they think that even Cleveland is a complete fluff team. Cleveland's good, they will compete the rest of the way. I don't believe they'll catch up, but there's a long time and a lot of uncertainty to resolve between now and the end of the year. I'll be just surprised if they do, not laid low w/ shock.

[Rowand44]

I'm not "worrying" about it, I just think this is the same sort of thing that becomes ugly after losses.  'Everyone else sucks, except maybe the Twins.  8 game lead, that's such a huge cushion, this thing's basically sewn up.'  No wonder people get peeved after a loss, if they think that even Cleveland is a complete fluff team.  Cleveland's good, they will compete the rest of the way.  I don't believe they'll catch up, but there's a long time and a lot of uncertainty to resolve between now and the end of the year.  I'll be just surprised if they do, not laid low w/ shock.

None of it's sewn up and I think everyone knows that. As I've said my opinion isn't based on how far back Cleveland is because we still do play them 11 times but it's based on my opinion that the Indians are just an average baseball team. I've said all year I believe the Sox and Twins are the two best teams in the American League so the Twins are still a threat in my mind but Cleveland isn't.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Rowand44

[ZoomSlowik]

None of it's sewn up and I think everyone knows that.  As I've said my opinion isn't bases on how far back Cleveland is because we still do play them 11 times  but it's based on my opinion that the Indians are just an average baseball team.  I've said all year I believe the Sox and Twins are the two best teams in the American League so the Twins are still a threat in my mind but Cleveland isn't.

 

Well said. I feel like Cleveland isn't a threat to pass us unless we fall apart. I really don't think they are capable of getting 90 wins, which is a number we can easily reach even with a major fall off in our pace. The Twins are another story. I feel that they have the talent and are capable of putting together a solid half a season, whereas I think this is about the best the Indians are going to do. It has nothing to do with their record or how many games back they are (Boston and New York have similar records, and I have more faith in them).

[jackie hayes]

That "solid lineup" is hitting .250, and their team leader has only 9 homers. The only guy performing under his level is Martinez (and I'm making that conclusion based on that one great season last year). As for the rotation, Westbrook's ERA is over 4.50, which is pre-2005 Garland, Elarton is worse, and Millwood is not going to be this good all year. Honestly, I've never seen a group get so worried about a team that's going to finish with about 85 wins, tops. Don't even get me started on Detroit. We can play .500 the rest of the way and finish with over 90 wins. Chill out. Start worrying about who's creeping up in August or September when it matters. Trust me, the Indians won't be there by then. If I'm drastically wrong, I'll worry about it then. Given the Sox schedule from here to the break compared to Cleveland's, I'd be surprised if they are still within ten games. Plenty of teams go on streaks at some point or another, and the Tribe hit theirs against some teams they should beat. But after playing Baltimore, New York, Boston, and Texas, they should be back to a non-factor.

Blake is also underperforming, despite the hrs he's been abysmal. Boone and Hernandez are underperforming -- though I don't know if they'll ever come out of it, especially Hernandez, Boone's been kicking ass every which way lately. Martinez hit for avg throughout the minors as well, he'll pick up. Elarton sucks, we can agree on that. He'll probably get even worse. But Westbrook's underperforming, Millwood's overperforming, we just have to see how those 2 balance out from here. I think there's at least some risk that Millwood could have one of his occasional tremendous seasons. And they can of course improve through trades, just like we can. Only the jump from Hernandez to...well, whatever, is probably greater than what we'd see from jettisoning our worst reserve. (Who could that be?...)

 

85 wins tops is pretty harsh, imo. You're saying the very best they could do, if things break right for them the rest of the way, is .500 ball? I doubt that.

[jackie hayes]

I really don't think they are capable of getting 90 wins...

 

...whereas I think this is about the best the Indians are going to do...

If this pace is the best they can do, then the best they can do is between 89 and 90 wins. (Which is also higher than the 85-at-best mark you posted earlier.) You're really so sure about the upper limit of the Indians that you are certain that that ONE in-between win is impossible?

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm saying this mini-streak is the best they can do. I don't think they can put it together for more than about two weeks. I'll be very shocked if they're still more than 2 or 3 over .500 at the break because their schedule gets tougher, which is exactly what I said about the Cubs a couple of weeks ago when everyone was s***ting their pants over a couple of wins against crappy teams. As I said, I don't see them being much better than .500 because you don't know what you are going to get from anyone in their rotation other than somewhere around a 4 ERA from Sabathia, and their offense is full of mostly mediocre players who had career years last year. Plus, I don't think Westbrook is underperforming. Take a look at his career numbers; last year looks a lot more out of place than this year. All of the players in whom I have any faith in their hitting ability are hitting right about where I think they should. Plus I personally doubt that Wickman stays this effective, although I don't think that'll hurt their pen too much. I stand by my 85 wins.

[jackie hayes]

I think you underrate their rotation, but that's jmho. On Westbrook, last year is better than before, but it was also his first full yr as a starter. That could be just a case of a young pitcher improving. (We have Cotts, we better hope that kind of thing is possible.) I think their offense is better than mediocre, too. Honestly, I believe Boone will recover his stroke, and Hafner and Sizemore are excellent hitters, while Martinez and Crisp are good, and Peralta and Belliard are solid. I don't believe that core will fail to produce less than league average. Overall, I think anywhere from 80-90 wins is very possible, and low-90s is difficult, but not implausible.

 

Agree to disagree?

[ZoomSlowik]

I made a statement previously before I did the math. If the Sox go .500 the rest of the way (47-47), they will have 103 wins. It's not hard to imagine the Sox doing that, but it is certainly difficult to see the Twins much less the Indians winning that many games.

[deezpac]

I made a statement previously before I did the math. If the Sox go .500 the rest of the way (47-47), they will have 103 wins. It's not hard to imagine the Sox doing that, but it is certainly difficult to see the Twins much less the Indians winning that many games.

 

if the sox go .500 the rest of the way they will finish with 93 wins. DJ made the same mistake during tonights telecast, the sox are 46-22 with 94 games left. A .500 record from now on would give them 47 more wins, 46+47 = 93.

 

i think the indians are a good team, i could see them finishing second in this division and making a run at the wildcard.

[ZoomSlowik]

if the sox go .500 the rest of the way they will finish with 93 wins.  DJ made the same mistake during tonights telecast, the sox are 46-22 with 94 games left.  A .500 record from now on would give them 47 more wins, 46+47 = 93. 

 

i think the indians are a good team, i could see them finishing second in this division and making a run at the wildcard.

 

Duh, my bad. That's where I got it from too. I kind of figured someone in the research department would have given him the right number. Thought it sounded high.

[JUGGERNAUT]

The Cubs edged past Milw tonight & Boston edged past Cle.

Cle is 9.5 gb, Min is 8 gb. In the win col Cle is 10 back & Min is 9 back.

Who wants to bet the Sox will have a double-digit lead over the entire ALC by the break?

 

Thomas makes Koney a better HR hitter because Koney gets better pitches to swing at. As long as Thomas remains healthy the Sox can only beat themselves.

 

I want Guardado on the team for insurance on a night like to night. It was good the offense came through and scored 11, but against a contender in Aug Vizcaino will lose this game for us. We need to shore up the bullpen so we can hold 2-3 run leads much better.

[Milkman delivers]

Without reading a word of this thread, here is my answer to the title:

 

No, they are not.  They've played awful teams, and they're still 4,052 games out.  This is a hot streak that they stumbled upon, and there is no threat from Cleveland.

 

Eh? Anyone still think they're for real after hitting a brick wall in the first real team they've faced?

 

I'll worry about the Indians when they can beat some real teams and some teams from the Central.