Time to make a deal for a 5th starter?

[sayitaintso]

it would be a little warm and sticky but I can deal      

Eww gross

[Dam8610]

I think San Fran will be asking top dollar for Schmidt based on past performance, and if the Sox are going to pay top dollar for a starter, I'd prefer it to be Roy Oswalt.

 

 

The Astros would ask for top dollar for Oswalt too.

 

I believe I said that. Oswalt is an awesome pitcher and he isn't tanking this season. That's why I'd prefer the Sox to pay top dollar for him rather than Schmidt.

[sayitaintso]

I believe I said that. Oswalt is an awesome pitcher and he isn't tanking this season. That's why I'd prefer the Sox to pay top dollar for him rather than Schmidt.

You said the Sox would have to pay top dollar to get Oswalt. I said that they would be asking top dollar for him in the first place.

Edited June 21, 2005 by sayitaintso

[Steve9347]

Kenny won't trade for a 5th starter, he'll trade for a #2 or #3.

 

I have seen Kenny impress me with his dealings, and get Freddy Garcia for Miguel Olivo and Jeremy Reed (Reed could be could, but I think that Kenny knew Olivo wasn't getting any better.)

 

I would not be surprised to see someone like Barry Zito or Roy Oswalt. That is how Kenny does it.

 

El Duque would be our dark horse going into the playoffs if we made it.

 

BARRY ZITO = Chicago bound, I have a feeling.

[Balta1701]

BARRY ZITO = Chicago bound, I have a feeling.

If so, I hope to God KW gets a couple more relief pitchers along with him, because when Zito bombs in Chicago as badly as Koch did, we'll need there to be something akin to Cotts and Politte so that we can say "At least we didn't get completely screwed".

[ChWRoCk2]

BARRY ZITO = Chicago bound, I have a feeling.

not gonna happen, oakland needs someone to build around, and thats the guy, but hell if im wrong, smacktalk me all you want

[Steve9347]

I just have a feeling. It seems like Mr. Moneyball is starting to eat his words, and though Zito isnt the Cy Young winner he once was, he is still a very capable pitcher with a sub 4.00 ERA over the last two months.

 

Anyway, the guy you want to build around in Oakland is Rich Harden, fresh off the DL, and possibly Dan Haren. I would be willing to bet that Zito is not in an A's jersey come midnight, July 31, if not sooner.

[Southside hitmen]

Zito will go to Philadelphia for Howard

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Roger Clemens isn't even the best choice on the Astros IMO. Roy Oswalt and Andy Pettite are much younger and might give you more than a rental player, and they're not going to cost nearly as much money.

No kidding. That's why the Astros will never trade Oswalt. They'd trade a 42yr old Clemens though.

 

If the Astros were willing to trade Oswalt, I'd give them McCarthy, Anderson and another prospect.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Why would we trade a guy who could be around for 10-15 years to get a guy who has about 1-2 left in him. I just don't see why this would make sense.

Because we want to win a World Series. This year. BMac isn't ready.

 

The only thing that bothers me about Clemens is that he has a clause in his contract that he doesn't have to travel with the team. I don't like that, and I don't know what that would do to the other pitchers on the staff.

[Balta1701]

Because we want to win a World Series.  This year.  BMac isn't ready.

 

The only thing that bothers me about Clemens is that he has a clause in his contract that he doesn't have to travel with the team.  I don't like that, and I don't know what that would do to the other pitchers on the staff.

Personally I'm not a fan of the extra $3 he gets if he's traded. If we picked him up he'd instantly be the highest paid player on our team, and he'd only be here half a season. I just know that would come back to bite us in the Free Agent market next year. Reinsdorf would want to make up his money.

[Dam8610]

No kidding.  That's why the Astros will never trade Oswalt.  They'd trade a 42yr old Clemens though.

 

If the Astros were willing to trade Oswalt, I'd give them McCarthy, Anderson and  another prospect.

 

Personally, I would hope that we'd be able to keep one of the two you named, but that's probably the type of deal that it'd have to be. I'd do it too, because Oswalt is a great pitcher and would give us an excellent rotation.

[Milkman delivers]

not gonna happen, oakland needs someone to build around, and thats the guy, but hell if im wrong, smacktalk me all you want

 

I think it's pretty well-known that Zito will be dealt before the deadline. The only way I can see it not happening is if the A's somehow get back into the race.

[Steve9347]

Clemens would be a perfect fit for our club, but he's not coming here. Sure, we could use a big-time veteran with Cy Young stuff, but he has a no trade clause in his contract, and he is only going to allow a trade to Texas or the Yanks, and i'd bet the Yanks.

[Frank the Tank 35]

Adding any 3 of the Astros' top starters would definitely be a boon to our postseason hopes. However, it is unlikely that we'd be able to obtain the services of Clemens or Oswalt. Oswalt, in my opinion, is their best pitcher, he's young, and he's only making 5.9 mil this year. While it would be beautiful to get Clemens, some retribution for skipping out on him earlier to sign Navarro, he's making 18 mil... as much as anyone would like a Championship, I can't see JR shelling out that much. Pettitte, on the other hand, is making 8.5 mil. He's 33 so he's not that young. Out of all their pitchers, the Sox would probably have the best chance of landing Pettitte. He's got a semi-sizable contract, and he's getting older, so they'd be willing to part ways. He also has a TON of postseason experience which would be a big help.

 

Another idea, not saying it's going to happen or is even likely but just throwing it out there, is the possibility of the Braves finally giving up their stranglehold of the NL East and giving up some of their veteran talent. Granted everyone in the NL East has a legitimate chance of winning that division, but the Braves just don't look like they can keep it together with all of their players hitting the DL. By the time they start getting everyone back, it may be too late and they could decide to retool for next year. Seeing as they have already parted ways with pitchers such as Maddux, Glavine, Millwood, etc., it should stand to reason that they'd be willing to give up Smoltz for the right price. He's obviously only a couple years away from retirement, and he's making 9 mil. He also has a ton of postseason experience AND could either be a #2 starter or a TOP closer... interesting indeed. Another Braves veteran of interest could be Chipper. He's also getting older and making 16 mil this year. He has a rather hefty contract and is currently on the DL, so there could be some obvious tepidation about getting his services. The Braves would have to give us a sweet deal, otherwise I'd be disinclined to go after Chipper. Unlikely they'd trade Huddy though despite his struggles and DL stint this year. Just an idea anyway...

 

I also heard on the radio that Jason Johnson of the Tigers and Mark Redman of the Pirates were a couple pitchers that will probably be traded by the deadline. Both have had some good and bad seasons in the past, but both are doing well this year. Aaron Sele is also a probability to be on the trading block and is having a fine year for an otherwise disappointing Mariners team. They're not the blockbuster moves everyone's looking for, and I don't know if they'd be anymore reliable than Duque. Personally I can't say I'd be overjoyed about acquiring any of those pitchers, but realistically that may be what KW will be dealing with.

[sayitaintso]

Because we want to win a World Series.  This year.  BMac isn't ready.

 

The only thing that bothers me about Clemens is that he has a clause in his contract that he doesn't have to travel with the team.  I don't like that, and I don't know what that would do to the other pitchers on the staff.

I never said BMac was ready, and i don't think he is. What i was trying to get at was why trade for a 42 year old who has 1-2 years left for someone who can possibly play 15+ years. If i was going to trade with Houston though, i would try to get Oswalt from them.

[ZoomSlowik]

I still fail to see why Houston would trade a 27 year old who won 20 games last year and is pitching very well right now while he still has a year left on his deal. Trading Oswalt would be about the dumbest thing that the Astros could do. They don't need money, and trading their ace is one way to quickly slow down a rebuilding plan. Going into a complete rebuilding mode wouldn't make much sense anyways because they would still have Pettitte, Berkman, and Bagwell eating up a ton of salary, and there isn't that much they could do about that. Those guys greatly limit their financial flexibility in a rebuilding mode, which wouldn't make much sense. The only reason Clemens is even being considered as trade bait is because he's an old man with a massive contract and special privledges. The ONLY reason he would be dealt is if he demands it. Even if they suck the rest of the year, their attendance has a monster spike whenever he pitches. Even assuming Clemens does get dealt, odds are he wouldn't come to Chicago, much like the Randy Johnson situation. Getting either of these guys is a pipe-dream, so I don't see the point in speculating about it.

Edited June 22, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Wedge]

Roger Clemens is the new Randy Johnson... I don't think we want him.

[Steve9347]

Uhm, I don't think Clemens is the new Randy Johnson. Compare their ERA's for christs sake! Clemens is barely above a 2!

[Balta1701]

Another idea, not saying it's going to happen or is even likely but just throwing it out there, is the possibility of the Braves finally giving up their stranglehold of the NL East and giving up some of their veteran talent.  Granted everyone in the NL East has a legitimate chance of winning that division, but the Braves just don't look like they can keep it together with all of their players hitting the DL. 

The Bravos are now a half game out of the Wild Card...and they've made their comeback starting like 6 or 7 rookies per game, with Chipper on the DL, with Hudson on the DL, and so forth.

 

That team gets healthy...and they may very well turn into the Braves from last year again. Jones is on fire again. Their rookies are hitting. And they can't get any worse than they are right now.

[Balta1701]

Uhm, I don't think Clemens is the new Randy Johnson.  Compare their ERA's for christs sake!  Clemens is barely above a 2!

Clemens also has just a 1 year contract...the Yankees are stuck with Johnson until he retires.

 

That said...he'd cost too much, he'd hurt the chemistry, he's just not the antidote this team needs.

 

Just remember this; in 2000 we won in large part because of team chemistry. That was a big part of it. Then we added David Wells (and Clayton) and look where that got us in 2001.

[mrzo2733]

As the season grows shorter and our lead grows wider the need for a 5th starter becomes less and less. Unless El Duque goes down completely and BMac just flat out can't cut it, we should be able to get by with a combo of those two the rest of the way out. What we need to do is solidify our chances of winning the other 4 days and since, IMO, there is no bat we can realistically go and get to assure that(in fact it can be argue that we just got that bat with Frank's return) then our best bet is to get a quality BP arm.

 

I agree 100% with everything you said. I say let BMac have another start. I think we should keep him up here for at least a little while and do what you said. With the lead we have, a 5th starter is not that important. If we can get BMAC some confidence with some spot starts and long relief along with keepin El Duque healthy and fresh (if thats even possible, hell he may be like 42), I will really like our situation late in the season. If things start changing and it is clear that neither of them can be counted on, then maybe, but not now and no time soon. We need a bullpen arm.

[mrzo2733]

Clemens also has just a 1 year contract...the Yankees are stuck with Johnson until he retires.

 

That said...he'd cost too much, he'd hurt the chemistry, he's just not the antidote this team needs.

 

Just remember this; in 2000 we won in large part because of team chemistry.  That was a big part of it.  Then we added David Wells (and Clayton) and look where that got us in 2001.

 

If we got Oswalt or Clemens we would win the World Series. Having said that, I can't imagine there's any chance it would happen. I would trade ANY 3 prospects in our system for either one.

[knightni]

There aren't enough teams with decent SPs who are "out of it" yet.

 

Closer to the trade deadline, someone might become available to trade for if El Duque is still injured.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Reading this thread you can't help but get a picture of the Astros being left for dead in the dessert with a swarm of vultures hovering over them. I won't believe they are planning a firesale until I see it.

 

They are avg'g just under 33K/gm at home. I think the vulture fest is premature.

 

Oakland on the other hand is avg'g < 24K/gm at home. The vulture fest is imminent.