Dumba$$e$

[Jabroni]

Carlos Lee is now with the Milwaukee Brewers.  End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He is?

[qwerty]

Have Podsednik's CS's and PO's hurt us in the long run?  I don't think so.  I guess the 75% rule doesn't mean much then.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2607

 

That link helps explain alot of the negatives of stealing a base, along with the positives if stolen succesfully.

One thing i have found out since being at soxtalk is whenever someone says a certain stat is crap they usually don't understand it or just don't want to believe it. I don't know which of those two you fall into with this.

 

Carlos Lee is now with the Milwaukee Brewers.  End of story.

 

Who said he wasn't?

[YASNY]

Considering this trade was made several months ago and it has been discussed on here to the point of nausea, we probably should let the guy be a Brewer and enjoy the players that are White Sox.

[Jabroni]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2607

 

That link helps explain alot of the negatives of stealing a base, along with the positives if stolen succesfully.

One thing i have found out since being at soxtalk is whenever someone says a certain stat is crap they usually don't understand it or just don't want to believe it. I don't know which of those two you fall into with this.

Who said he wasn't?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have heard all about those stats. Pods got picked off today, yet we still won the game. Did it really hurt that Pods got picked off? Nope. Has Podsednik's stolen bases and speed on the base paths helped us more than his CS's and PO's have hurt us? I think so.

 

I think the problem is that you weren't expecting anything from Podsednik after his bad season last year and now you are trying to prove yourself right, even though he is having a good season.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Jabroni

[qwerty]

Considering this trade was made several months ago and it has been discussed on here to the point of nausea, we probably should let the guy be a Brewer and enjoy the players that are White Sox.

 

Did anyone other than you bring up carlos lee? I might have missed it.

[qwerty]

I have heard all about those stats.  Pods got picked off today, yet we still won the game.  Did it really hurt that Pods got picked off?  Nope.  Has Podsednik's stolen bases and speed on the base paths helped us more than his CS's and PO's have hurt us?  I think so.

 

So... if rowand was hitting .180 with runners on base up to this point and we still had this same record it would be ok? Or would give him one of you nicknames?

Edited June 22, 2005 by qwerty

[Jabroni]

So... if rowand was hitting .180 with runners on base up to this point and we still had this same record it would be ok? Or would give him one of you nicknames?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But he isn't and his overall AVG is good. Nice "what if" though...

[YASNY]

Did anyone other than you bring up carlos lee? I might have missed it.

 

Start with the very first post of this thread and keep reading. This whole thread is revolved around the Lee trade.

[qwerty]

Start with the very first post of this thread and keep reading.  This whole thread is revolved around the Lee trade.

 

My bad, i did something i rarely ever do. I just popped in at the tail end of the thread without reading any of the beginning.

[qwerty]

But he isn't and his overall AVG is good.  Nice "what if" though...

 

Your excuse is you see no evidence that it has hurt the teams chances to score more runs and that we have the best record so it's o.k. He has been thrown out at least 17 times on the base paths this year whether is was from an attempted stolen base or a pick off. 8 f***ing pick off should be enough for 2 years and we are not even half way through the season. I also do agree that it is a nice ''what if''. If podsednik had these same exact numbers and are record was let's say 30-40... i can guarantee you people around here would be pointing to those 17 times he has gotten out on the bases and they would all be mentioning how it is hurting the team. Wins make a world of a difference around here... and you should know, if you do not say something the majority likes...

Edited June 22, 2005 by qwerty

[Jabroni]

Your excuse is you see no evidence that it has hurt the teams chances to score more runs and that we have the best record so it's o.k. He has been thrown out at least 17 times on the base paths this year whether is was from an attempted stolen base or a pick off. 8 f***ing pick off should be enough for 2 years and we are not even half way through the season. I also do agree that it is a nice ''what if''. If podsednik had these same exact numbers and are record was let's say 30-40... i can guarantee you people around here would be pointing to those 17 times he has gotten out on the bases and they would all be mentioning how it is hurting the team. Wins make a world of a difference around here... and you should know, if you do not say something the majority likes...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, stealing bases is Podsednik's whole game. Every pitcher knows he's going to take a big lead and try to steal. Derek Lee has 10 SB and only 2 CS because no one thinks he's going to run. Podsednik is almost at a disadvantage when it comes to stealing bases. But do you think Ozzie should tell him not to run? That's ridiculous.

 

There's also a mental aspect of Podsednik being on base that your stats don't calculate. Is there a stat for messing with a pitcher's head? We have seen it numerous times this season.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Jabroni

[JUGGERNAUT]

It's pointless to keep debating this. Those who don't like Pods are going to ignore the simple fact that Pods puts far greater pressure on the defense than Lee does.

 

I would agree D Pods is at best as good as Lee. It's true Lee has a stronger arm but Pods has greater range L & R. That allows Rowand to cheat over to RF. With Lee that's not possible.

 

There are stats you don't want to look at for Pods value:

1- SB's from 2nd to 3rd. Lee can't do this. Few players can.

2- SH, SF - Pods is very good at both

3- Bunts. Pods is w/out question the best bunter on the team. This has much greater value when a pitcher is shutting your team down. Lee can't bunt to save his life.

4- vLHP: 9R .340A .421O 5RBI 6W 6SB, vRHP: 32R, .275A, .346O, 10RBI, 21W, 30SB. Lee is hitt .277 vs LH. Pods gives us an edge vs an ALC that features the best LHP in MLB.

5-NON: .293A .386O - Exactly what you hope for in a lead-off hitter.

 

**************************************************

SB (2nd to 3rd): 13, SB (2nd to 3rd, 2 outs): 5

 

He has 61H & 36SB, 13 of which got him to 3B. That's equivalent to

having 23DB, & 13TP on the season in NON sits. Lee has 20DB, & 0TP.

[Kyyle23]

"The defeat dropped the Brewers' record to 11-28 in games in which Carlos Lee has not driven in a run. In games in which Lee has at least one RBI, the Brewers are 20-11. "

 

I found this quote about Carlos Lee on benmaller.com. I wonder what the statistics are for the Sox when Pods gets a hit, or a stolen base?

[Bubba Philips]

 

I was going to reply to a DUMBASS post on WhiteSox.com, but then I remembered why I'm here in the first place.  I honestly think stupid people like to be around stupid people, and stupid people seem to post on WhiteSox.com (sorry if any of you post there).

 

Someone stated that they'd give Viz and Pods back for Lee, because with Lee our offense would be killer.  How dumb of a statement is this?!@#$!#@  Seriousy, open your mind.  This game was and IS about more than offense.

 

We are winning -- WITHOUT Lee.

 

Not to mention we HAD Lee and for three consecutive years we BOMBED.  I recall frequent miscues by Lee, spurts of total lazyness, dumb outfield plays and then ultra-hot-streaks where he'd hit multiple home runs and drive in 6 RBI's in a game...when we were already winning that game 10-0.  I never recall Lee helping us a lick when we were down 1-0, though.  How many times has Pods changed the face of a game just by getting on when we were down 1-0?!

 

Vizciano is a disappointment, yes...but he's better than he's pitching and I'm sure it's merely because we aren't using him the right way.  I see a tendendy to overuse his breaking pitches rather than use that moving fastball...we need to stop this.

 

As for Podsednik, he brings something to the game that you cannot see on the surface and I think it FAR outweighs Lee's power numbers.  Pods can score from first on a long single (if necessary), Lee cannot.  Pods puts pressure (constant pressure) on opposing pitchers and defenses, Lee cannot.  Lee falls asleep and gets picked off at the most mis-opportune times, Pods does not.  Lee has better power numbers than Pods, no doubt about it...and he can keep them.  Lee didn't terrify an entire team when he got on base...Podsednik does, and that -- at least to me -- is bigger than any home run.

 

I like Lee...but I like having Pods more...way more.  So to those of you on WhiteSox.com who want to trade Pods back for Lee...I wanna trade you for a Milwaukee fan, because they're probably not as DUMB as you.

 

[Bubba Philips]

 

I was going to reply to a DUMBASS post on WhiteSox.com, but then I remembered why I'm here in the first place.  I honestly think stupid people like to be around stupid people, and stupid people seem to post on WhiteSox.com (sorry if any of you post there).

 

Someone stated that they'd give Viz and Pods back for Lee, because with Lee our offense would be killer.  How dumb of a statement is this?!@#$!#@  Seriousy, open your mind.  This game was and IS about more than offense.

 

We are winning -- WITHOUT Lee.

 

Not to mention we HAD Lee and for three consecutive years we BOMBED.  I recall frequent miscues by Lee, spurts of total lazyness, dumb outfield plays and then ultra-hot-streaks where he'd hit multiple home runs and drive in 6 RBI's in a game...when we were already winning that game 10-0.  I never recall Lee helping us a lick when we were down 1-0, though.  How many times has Pods changed the face of a game just by getting on when we were down 1-0?!

 

Vizciano is a disappointment, yes...but he's better than he's pitching and I'm sure it's merely because we aren't using him the right way.  I see a tendendy to overuse his breaking pitches rather than use that moving fastball...we need to stop this.

 

As for Podsednik, he brings something to the game that you cannot see on the surface and I think it FAR outweighs Lee's power numbers.  Pods can score from first on a long single (if necessary), Lee cannot.  Pods puts pressure (constant pressure) on opposing pitchers and defenses, Lee cannot.  Lee falls asleep and gets picked off at the most mis-opportune times, Pods does not.  Lee has better power numbers than Pods, no doubt about it...and he can keep them.  Lee didn't terrify an entire team when he got on base...Podsednik does, and that -- at least to me -- is bigger than any home run.

 

I like Lee...but I like having Pods more...way more.  So to those of you on WhiteSox.com who want to trade Pods back for Lee...I wanna trade you for a Milwaukee fan, because they're probably not as DUMB as you.

 

[Bubba Philips]

I agree about Pods aagainst lee's value but could we trade Viscaino back to the brewers for any minor leaguer