aboz56 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Any thoughts on who it would be if Koch lost the role or was placed on the DL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 thing is what kind of injury is it and was he traded to us with the injury as someone last week hinted at or suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 if Koch goes down, which I feel is becoming more and more likely, I would split the duties between Marte and Glover and I think they would do fine, especially since Koch looks pretty bad right now. the keys to the pen are whenever a guy is giong good, LEAVE HIM IN. Gordon and White have been far too iffy this year to let them go one or two batters. if Gordon is pitching good, like he did yesterday, keep him in and get the most out of him, cause you have no idea if keeping him ready for the next day will do any good. same goes for White. If Koch goes down, it'll probably be when Wright is ready, so Koch goes on DL, Wright comes up and have either him or Stewart start with the other in the pen. Glover and Marte share closer duties with Wunsch, White, Sanders and Gordon doing the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 "when Flash is throwing like he can, Flash gets phone calls" If JM chooses anyone other than Gordon, they might as well release him, because he'll become a clubhouse poison faster than anything. I'd pick Marte, for the record... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Any thoughts on who it would be if Koch lost the role or was placed on the DL... The obvious choice is Marte, but I'd like them to call up Edwin Almonte or Arnaldo Munoz to get some bullpen experience in the biggs while Koch is on the DL. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Bob James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 if Koch goes down, which I feel is becoming more and more likely, I would split the duties between Marte and Glover and I think they would do fine, especially since Koch looks pretty bad right now. the keys to the pen are whenever a guy is giong good, LEAVE HIM IN. Gordon and White have been far too iffy this year to let them go one or two batters. if Gordon is pitching good, like he did yesterday, keep him in and get the most out of him, cause you have no idea if keeping him ready for the next day will do any good. same goes for White. If Koch goes down, it'll probably be when Wright is ready, so Koch goes on DL, Wright comes up and have either him or Stewart start with the other in the pen. Glover and Marte share closer duties with Wunsch, White, Sanders and Gordon doing the rest. glover is gonna close??...oh cmon..he's not going from mop up man to closer no matter how well he pitches... its obvious who is gonna close if koch goes down flash will close so marte can keep his set up job...marte will get a few opportunities here and there when we face some lefties in the 9th... flash is a proven closer that has saved 40 games before...glover?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 if Koch goes down, which I feel is becoming more and more likely, I would split the duties between Marte and Glover and I think they would do fine, especially since Koch looks pretty bad right now. the keys to the pen are whenever a guy is giong good, LEAVE HIM IN. Gordon and White have been far too iffy this year to let them go one or two batters. if Gordon is pitching good, like he did yesterday, keep him in and get the most out of him, cause you have no idea if keeping him ready for the next day will do any good. same goes for White. If Koch goes down, it'll probably be when Wright is ready, so Koch goes on DL, Wright comes up and have either him or Stewart start with the other in the pen. Glover and Marte share closer duties with Wunsch, White, Sanders and Gordon doing the rest. glover is gonna close??...oh cmon..he's not going from mop up man to closer no matter how well he pitches... its obvious who is gonna close if koch goes down flash will close so marte can keep his set up job...marte will get a few opportunities here and there when we face some lefties in the 9th... flash is a proven closer that has saved 40 games before...glover?? Agreed. It's also a decision, no matter Flash's history of media problems or what not, that I agree with. He just has to know that he is closing until Koch gets back....and not much more after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I would guess if it is KW's call he would go with Gordon. Just a hunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Almonte I doubt it but I don't much care for Trash Gordon, he's has one good season out of too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 marte....of course if we hadnt traded away joe valentine he could have easily came in and did it................but out of the choices we have left .. marte is the only one i have confidence in to get the job done.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 marte....of course if we hadnt traded away joe valentine he could have easily came in and did it................but out of the choices we have left .. marte is the only one i have confidence in to get the job done.......... marte sure did the job today...6 up , 6 down..he still isnt as sharp as last year...but he is getting closer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I'd have to go with Marte. He's been in the closer role before with this team (last season of course), and you'd have to say that at this moment, he's the best suited for the role. The only real possibilities are Marte or Gordon, but there's no doubt that at this point in the season, Marte is more effective than Gordon. So if I had to decide now, it would be Marte hands-down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 personally, since Koch is down, I don't see the Sox giving one person the role and I don't see them using one for the eighth and one for the ninth. all I'm saying is if let's say Buehrle goes seven innings and the Sox have the lead, I would throw either Marte or Glover in to throw both innings. I know people say closing is A LOT different than middle relief, but if a guy throws a 1-2-3 eighth inning, why can't he do the same in the ninth? I mean, he's already in the game and secured the lead in the eighth frame, why not keep him in one more inning? I say this because the way the bullpen is going right now, they gotta take what they can get. if they throw in Gordon in for the seventh and he gives up no runs, use him as much as you can the rest of the way, same goes for White, Marte and Glover. do this until Koch is back and ready, then set people in their roles. We won yesterday because Gordon threw 2 1/3 innings, Marte threw 2 innings today, lets just do this theory until things get in order. as far as Glover, people can doubt him all they want, he's a good pitcher and a good reliever for any situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 personally, since Koch is down, I don't see the Sox giving one person the role and I don't see them using one for the eighth and one for the ninth. all I'm saying is if let's say Buehrle goes seven innings and the Sox have the lead, I would throw either Marte or Glover in to throw both innings. I know people say closing is A LOT different than middle relief, but if a guy throws a 1-2-3 eighth inning, why can't he do the same in the ninth? I mean, he's already in the game and secured the lead in the eighth frame, why not keep him in one more inning? I say this because the way the bullpen is going right now, they gotta take what they can get. if they throw in Gordon in for the seventh and he gives up no runs, use him as much as you can the rest of the way, same goes for White, Marte and Glover. do this until Koch is back and ready, then set people in their roles. We won yesterday because Gordon threw 2 1/3 innings, Marte threw 2 innings today, lets just do this theory until things get in order. as far as Glover, people can doubt him all they want, he's a good pitcher and a good reliever for any situation. The term "closer" is WAY overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I don't think it is overrated because it has developed into a neccessity in this day and age, but I think if a guy goes out and throws an easy 1-2-3 eighth inning to hold a lead, he should be able to stay in and do it in the ninth. I do think only certain players can come in and throw strictly in the ninth because the pressure is higher, but if you are in and productive, another inning won't hurt and won't be that much different mentally. I think the problem is too many relievers are thrown into this one inning a night rule. if I was a manger, I would designate 2-3 relievers each night and instead of doing 2-3 outs each, give them two innings and use whatever is left for the following day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 personally, since Koch is down, I don't see the Sox giving one person the role and I don't see them using one for the eighth and one for the ninth. all I'm saying is if let's say Buehrle goes seven innings and the Sox have the lead, I would throw either Marte or Glover in to throw both innings. I know people say closing is A LOT different than middle relief, but if a guy throws a 1-2-3 eighth inning, why can't he do the same in the ninth? I mean, he's already in the game and secured the lead in the eighth frame, why not keep him in one more inning? I say this because the way the bullpen is going right now, they gotta take what they can get. if they throw in Gordon in for the seventh and he gives up no runs, use him as much as you can the rest of the way, same goes for White, Marte and Glover. do this until Koch is back and ready, then set people in their roles. We won yesterday because Gordon threw 2 1/3 innings, Marte threw 2 innings today, lets just do this theory until things get in order. as far as Glover, people can doubt him all they want, he's a good pitcher and a good reliever for any situation. The term "closer" is WAY overrated. as is trading for "the" closer to put you over the top...closer is the biggest waste of money in baseball imo...id much rather work the metch ups to decide who closes a game... another thing i hate about closers is a manger will stick wioth a closer regaurdless....you can take a 3 run lead into the 9th and your closer gives up 2 runs and walks the beses loaded with no one out and the manager still leaves him in until the game out of reach...with no set closer..if a guy starts out bad you replace him immediately before all hope is lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I don't think closers are useless, because teams who go based on matchups do tend to struggle. I think the problem is a manager will use a guy for one inning just so the guy can stay fresh enough and pitch the next night. so instead of giving two pitchers an inning a piece back-to-back nights, I would have one guy throw extra one night, and the next use the other guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 The only reason I would say the term "closer" is not overrated is that to many relievers seem to need a defined role mid relief, setup , closer and struggle when they have to do something out of that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 personally, since Koch is down, I don't see the Sox giving one person the role and I don't see them using one for the eighth and one for the ninth. all I'm saying is if let's say Buehrle goes seven innings and the Sox have the lead, I would throw either Marte or Glover in to throw both innings. I know people say closing is A LOT different than middle relief, but if a guy throws a 1-2-3 eighth inning, why can't he do the same in the ninth? I mean, he's already in the game and secured the lead in the eighth frame, why not keep him in one more inning? I say this because the way the bullpen is going right now, they gotta take what they can get. if they throw in Gordon in for the seventh and he gives up no runs, use him as much as you can the rest of the way, same goes for White, Marte and Glover. do this until Koch is back and ready, then set people in their roles. We won yesterday because Gordon threw 2 1/3 innings, Marte threw 2 innings today, lets just do this theory until things get in order. as far as Glover, people can doubt him all they want, he's a good pitcher and a good reliever for any situation. Have you looked at the Red Sox lately and seen how "closer by committee" works? That is basically what you are getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 the Red Sox closer by committee is based on matchups. they'll use one guy for the ninth one game and another the next night, my theory is simply leave who ever is out there to pitch the ninth. you would usually bring in Marte to pitch the eighth and then pull him, well, have him pitch the ninth too. not bullpen by committee, it is simply a bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 personally, since Koch is down, I don't see the Sox giving one person the role and I don't see them using one for the eighth and one for the ninth. all I'm saying is if let's say Buehrle goes seven innings and the Sox have the lead, I would throw either Marte or Glover in to throw both innings. I know people say closing is A LOT different than middle relief, but if a guy throws a 1-2-3 eighth inning, why can't he do the same in the ninth? I mean, he's already in the game and secured the lead in the eighth frame, why not keep him in one more inning? I say this because the way the bullpen is going right now, they gotta take what they can get. if they throw in Gordon in for the seventh and he gives up no runs, use him as much as you can the rest of the way, same goes for White, Marte and Glover. do this until Koch is back and ready, then set people in their roles. We won yesterday because Gordon threw 2 1/3 innings, Marte threw 2 innings today, lets just do this theory until things get in order. as far as Glover, people can doubt him all they want, he's a good pitcher and a good reliever for any situation. Have you looked at the Red Sox lately and seen how "closer by committee" works? That is basically what you are getting at. there is a reason why the red sox CBC is failing and why the close CBC has failed in the past..its because teams that have tried have had bullpens that s***...look at the red sox pen...there isnt a pitcher in that pen thats better than gary glover..and he mops up for us... using a CBC with 3 guys closing that have proved in the past they are all very capable closers will be much more successful then using a CBC because you have no one who is talented enough to closer in your pen we have a very unique situation..we have 3 pitchers with 3 different types of games that have all closeed in the past and have been very successful..today was a great example of a CBC bullpen...billy koch is supposed to be the number 1 closer but the twins just kill him..meanwhile marte has great success against the twinkies...it makes sense to let marte close out against them...there are teams where the match ups wioll favor flash...so why not let him close those games??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 There's a pitcher that could help us in the pen he's a veteran and maybe wouldn't cost much. I'm talking about Milwaukee's Curtis Leskanic. He has a good arm and throws hard and has been a closer. I'm not saying he could be the closer but could help and probably would come cheap. He was throwing 94-97 against the Braves the other day. Please don't insult me it's just an opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 the Red Sox closer by committee is based on matchups. they'll use one guy for the ninth one game and another the next night, my theory is simply leave who ever is out there to pitch the ninth. you would usually bring in Marte to pitch the eighth and then pull him, well, have him pitch the ninth too. not bullpen by committee, it is simply a bullpen. You're theory would also create a situation worse off than having a "bad" closer. Bullpen guys work much better with defined roles. They are better when they don't have to guess when they are going to get to pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 the Red Sox closer by committee is based on matchups. they'll use one guy for the ninth one game and another the next night, my theory is simply leave who ever is out there to pitch the ninth. you would usually bring in Marte to pitch the eighth and then pull him, well, have him pitch the ninth too. not bullpen by committee, it is simply a bullpen. You're theory would also create a situation worse off than having a "bad" closer. Bullpen guys work much better with defined roles. They are better when they don't have to guess when they are going to get to pitch. "defined roles"...thats been the pat answer for years by managers who didnt have the guts to try something like this because then if they made the wrong choice or the right choice and it didnt work out they would have to answer why...this way if they go with the "defined" roles and if the closer blows a 3 run lead and the game the manager can just say , hey , he is our closer.... we pay him 10 million to finish games and he failed...takes the onus off the manager...you could have jerry reinsdorf manage then... relievers need to be ready to pitch everyday anways...if your using 3 guys to close they can tell as the game progresses if they will be needed...we played minny.. they are lefty stacked..marte had to know coming into this series he would pitch in a crucial spot if needed...billy koch should have known he was probably getting the weekend off or he might get an inning in a blow out to stay sharp..there are teams that dont hit the curve ball very well...when we play them flash ought to know its his turn to step up...we play detroit..billy koch has a great record against them...he should know he's probably closing that series... i actually think would take some of the pressure off of all three and spread it around....plus it gives jerry the flexibility to put each of these three in positions where they are most likely to be successful... why should koch have to close against the twins when they kill him and marte has had great success against them???..it really makes no sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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