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Sox Looking at Ted Lilly


beck72

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QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:23 PM)
I would wager that he's gone at the end of the season, Tracy before then.

I'll admit that the LAT has really gone down on the kid, but I was really under the impression that he was management's guy.

 

Also...Tracy has 1 division championship to his credit. That kept Manuel around until 2003.

 

I wager both are back next year, but Depodesta would have a much shorter leash next year.

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QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 05:27 PM)
I wouldn't be dissapointed if we got Lilly, but I wouldn't be estatic either. He is a decent pitcher, and could help us out if we aquried him.

i dont see why "some" (not sayitaintso) are shooting down the whole idea, he could alternate starts with duque, giving them both rest and both could throw a little session in the bullpen, IMO, it would work

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QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 10:27 PM)
I wouldn't be dissapointed if we got Lilly, but I wouldn't be estatic either. He is a decent pitcher, and could help us out if we aquried him.

 

I agree, which is probably why KW had a guy there to watch him.

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QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 04:31 PM)
I agree, which is probably why KW had a guy there to watch him.

Yeah that would be my guess to. But if we aquired him, what do you think it would cost us. I know that he was traded for Keilty, but on our team, who do you think it would take for us to get Lilly.

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QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:24 PM)
Before this gets into all the fantasy trade deals, let's get back to reality. There was a media report linking the sox to Lilly. Let's look at the reasoning behind the sox looking at him, instead of the pie in the sky crap

 

It's not to get a top of the line SP. It's for a 5th SP type.

 

 

Sorry about that, my fault. It's just that some sports stations out here have already begun discussing the inevitable dismantling of the boys in blue and my mouth started watering at the idea.

 

As for Lily, he's a bust. Terrible idea.

 

Kip Wells, anyone? :banghead Doh! did it again...

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QUOTE(chi-guy2 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 04:28 PM)
i dont see why everyone keeps shooting down the whole idea, he could alternate starts with duque, giving them both rest and both could throw a little session in the bullpen, IMO, it would work

I'm not shooting down that idea. I'm just saying i wouldn't get to excited if we got him, that's all.

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QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 10:37 PM)
Yeah that would be my guess to. But if we aquired him, what do you think it would cost us. I know that he was traded for Keilty, but on our team, who do you think it would take for us to get Lilly.

Hard to say what Toronto wants or needs. The article speculated that Schoeneweis or Batista could go back to the rotation. Maybe a bullpen arm [vizcaino] or minor leaguers near ready for the majors who could pitch this yr [bobby Jenks or Bajenaru]. With two guys having off years like Vizcaino and Lilly, a swap could make sense [with the sox adding a prospect]

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Just to point out the overlooked but obvious, who to say that they were scouting Lilly? There's another BJ that would be of interest to the Sox, Miguel Bautista. I know he didn't end up pitching that night but maybe the Sox felt that the best chance of seeing a reliever pitch was with Lilly starting.

 

Anyhoo, just a thought.

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QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 10:30 AM)
Just to point out the overlooked but obvious, who to say that they were scouting Lilly? There's another BJ that would be of interest to the Sox, Miguel Bautista. I know he didn't end up pitching that night but maybe the Sox felt that the best chance of seeing a reliever pitch was with Lilly starting.

 

Anyhoo, just a thought.

 

True. Yet Lilly's a FA after this season, Batista has another year left on his deal. with the sox needing to sign Garland to a deal [and work on AJ, maybe Paulie], getting another contract in the mix hurts the chances of signing everyone.

 

If the sox were looking at Batista, it wouldn't be the worst thing though for the bullpen. however, I see a LHP being added.

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2005 47th Lilly, Ted TOR L 4.86NPERA, 71IP, 57Ks

2004 12th Lilly, Ted TOR L 3.37NPERA 197.1IP, 168K's

2003 16th Lilly, Ted OAK L 3.60NPERA 178.1IP, 147K's

Spot-Starter/Relief

2002 27th Lilly, Ted OAK L 3.17NPERA 100.0IP 77K's

 

2005

Pitches 01-15 .208A .269O .354S .623OOP

Pitches 16-30 .245A .295O .453S .748OOP

2002-2005

Pitches 01-15 .237A .311O .395S .706OOP

Pitches 16-30 .199A .286O .338S .624OOP

 

If you view the move as getting a quality LHP for spot-starts & the pen

it's not a bad pickup.

 

Lilly GB/FB 05 0.87, 04 0.80, 03 0.85 - comparable to El Duque's career

Pick him up now & it will cost about $2M. Batista will probably cost $3M.

 

05 B-27th Batista, Miguel TOR R 2.50NPERA, 31.1IP, 18K's

04 A-31st Batista, Miguel TOR R 4.26NPERA, 198.2IP, 104K's

03 A-22nd Batista, Miguel ARI R 3.45NPERA, 193.1IP, 142K's

02 A-13th Batista, Miguel ARI R 3.33NPERA, 184.2IP, 112K's

 

2005

Pitches 1-15 .221A .267O .337S .604OOP

Pitches 16-30 .227A .280O .273S .553OOP

 

2002-2005

Pitches 1-15 .288A .347O .464S .811OOP

Pitches 16-30 .251A .338O .375S .713OOP

 

There is risk in both of these guys. How will Batista do if called upon to

spot start? Those 1-15 #'s for his past 3 yrs are not encouraging but he has a much better GB/FB ratio than Lilly. In Lilly's case his 1-15 are good for both his 3 yr & 2005 but his GB/FB is more like El Duque. How will he fare at the Cell?

 

If Lilly is pitching well right now ... 14IP, 2R, 16K's vs STL & BAL ...

I would choose him over Batista because a good LHP is a greater need on the White Sox than a strong RHP.

 

Batista has not started one game this year. Pen makeup:

RHP: Hermy, Politte, Shingo, Vizcaino, BMac

LHP: Cotts, Marte

 

Shingo is really coming on strong now that he is throwing more of a better fast ball. Before he was using it as an out pitch & now it's his main pitch. He uses the frisbee & other stuff to make the fast ball look much faster.

Before he would lead with the frisbee. Now he's not afraid to lead with the fastball just off the zone. He's also take a nod from Buehlre & going upstairs more. I had every confidence that a guy with his experience would make the adjustments & he has. That gives the White Sox 3 quality

RH's in the pen.

 

Marte still looks shaky. He just doesn't have the control he had 2 yrs ago.

Adding Lilly to the pen would be a good move.

 

As for spot starts, Hermy is the best qualified but unless you plan on swinging a deal for a Guardado type closer you can't use him as both a spot-starter & closer. There's no good choice after him once BMac goes back. So Lilly would be a good choice for spot starts.

 

As for what it will cost you, Lilly will certainly cost less in $, & probably less in talent. Of course he has 3 more quality starts before the break that could change.

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QUOTE(Allsox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 08:55 AM)
Can we get Zack Greinke from KC instead of Lilly? The Sox would give this kid at least 12 more wins if he pitched for us!  :gosox1:

 

please tell me you meant to type this in green and forgot.

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QUOTE(chi-guy2 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 05:28 PM)
i dont see why "some" (not sayitaintso) are shooting down the whole idea, he could alternate starts with duque, giving them both rest and both could throw a little session in the bullpen, IMO, it would work

BMAC could do that just as effectively, and without getting rid of players or picking up salary. No thanks, Lilly is a second tier starter and is worse than anyone in our rotation right now.

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BMAC could do that just as effectively, and without getting rid of players or picking up salary.  No thanks, Lilly is a second tier starter and is worse than anyone in our rotation right now.

Ummm, he got rocked against the Sweeney-less Royals. Lilly isn't great but he would probably be a better 5th starter than McCarthy at this point in their respective careers.

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QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 02:33 PM)
please tell me you meant to type this in green and forgot.

 

No, I wasn't kidding....Even Ozzie said in the postgame conf Tues this kid's got good stuff and has no idea how he's 1 - 8....He's playing for the KC Royals, who haven't been world beaters the last two years....Any situation would be better for that kid than there....

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QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 01:39 PM)
Ummm, he got rocked against the Sweeney-less Royals.  Lilly isn't great but he would probably be a better 5th starter than McCarthy at this point in their respective careers.

I dont think he would be better than El Duque, and if you need someone to spot start, and it means trading away players AND picking up salary, you are wasting your money. There is NO value making a trade for a lower tier starter, we already have 5 good ones, why add someone who is not as good?

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I think they meant green because Grienke will not be traded under any circumstances. He is the future of KC and dirt cheap.

 

As for Lilly, I think hed fit nicely as he is left handed and would give our rotation better balance. They also could be trying to get one of Toronto's 3b, now that Hill is on fire and Hillenbrand, Hinske, and Koskie are going to be splitting time.

 

Sb

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I dont think he would be better than El Duque, and if you need someone to spot start, and it means trading away players AND picking up salary, you are wasting your money.  There is NO value making a trade for a lower tier starter, we already have 5 good ones, why add someone who is not as good?

You are assuming that El Duque can stay healthy. Kenny isn't.

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No, I wasn't kidding....Even Ozzie said in the postgame conf Tues this kid's got good stuff and has no idea how he's 1 - 8....He's playing for the KC Royals, who haven't been world beaters the last two years....Any situation would be better for that kid than there....

 

Tell me why the Royals would even consider trading Greinke?

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