Jabroni Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 No, I wasn't kidding....Even Ozzie said in the postgame conf Tues this kid's got good stuff and has no idea how he's 1 - 8....He's playing for the KC Royals, who haven't been world beaters the last two years....Any situation would be better for that kid than there.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They aren't trading Greinke. Get it out of your head now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsox Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Fair enuff....Ted Lilly just doesn't sound attractive at all though and with a 10 game cushion, I think the Sox can live with McCarthy spot starting here and there for El Duque.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 01:43 PM) You are assuming that El Duque can stay healthy. Kenny isn't. Yeah, and I have mor faith in Kenny, that is he has to pick up a pitcher, it will be an improvement over what he has now. Not something that is the same or worse. If El Duque IS hurt, KW will pick up someone who is better than him, because we have to give up players and pick up salary, you need to get value to give value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Yeah, and I have mor faith in Kenny, that is he has to pick up a pitcher, it will be an improvement over what he has now. Not something that is the same or worse. If El Duque IS hurt, KW will pick up someone who is better than him, because we have to give up players and pick up salary, you need to get value to give value. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If he picks up another starter, I honestly don't think it's going to be a stud. It's going to be a 5th starter-type guy like Lilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I think if KW gets another starter, that pitcher is going to be an impact player... not crappy Ted Lilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 11:09 AM) Btw, was going to mention that James Baldwin was also pitching that night but it's just so hard to get your humor going this early in the morning. Didn't catch that until now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 06:27 PM) WSCR 670 The Score is reporting that the Sox are scouting Ted Lilly. I guess they read the papers a day or two late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I think if KW gets another starter, that pitcher is going to be an impact player... not crappy Ted Lilly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> All we need is a 5th starter if El Duque can't stay healthy. Our top four guys are all good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) All we need is a 5th starter if El Duque can't stay healthy. Our top four guys are all good enough. I just dont see KW making a trade for a 5th guy that is worse than our current guy, it just doesnt make sense giving up prospects for that, he is better off giving up more and getting more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I just dont see KW making a trade for a 5th guy that is worse than our current guy, it just doesnt make sense giving up prospects for that, he is better off giving up more and getting more. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I'm not saying he is going to trade for Lilly but why is there a Sox scout looking at him then? Lilly isn't better than El Duque but would he be a better 5th starter than McCarthy? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 01:18 PM) If he picks up another starter, I honestly don't think it's going to be a stud. It's going to be a 5th starter-type guy like Lilly. I agree. KW likes the team and the minor league talent. He would trade for a 5th starter type that wouldn't cost much in minor league talent. The top four in the rotation should carry us and in the playoffs we would only use 4 at the maximum anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Lilly started the season on the DL with a shoulder dealie. he's a darn good pitcher. definitely an upgrade over el duque, IMHO. his last three starts have been pretty good, and they've been against good lineups. But again, a starter isn't needed. there's nothing wrong with BMac taking his lumps as long as the lead in the central stays in this neighborhood. and as deniro said in midnight run, "that's a pretty respectable neighborhood." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(Allsox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 01:40 PM) No, I wasn't kidding....Even Ozzie said in the postgame conf Tues this kid's got good stuff and has no idea how he's 1 - 8....He's playing for the KC Royals, who haven't been world beaters the last two years....Any situation would be better for that kid than there.... Im just saying that the Royals wont trade a potential ace to a team in their own division who is already in first place. thats just silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 06:37 PM) BMAC could do that just as effectively, and without getting rid of players or picking up salary. No thanks, Lilly is a second tier starter and is worse than anyone in our rotation right now. BMac might be better than Lilly--in a few years. But if Lilly can get any where near his last two years numbers [like 4.05 and 4.20 era--and under 4.00 in each of the second halfs the last three yrs] Lilly would give the sox what they need: innings [into the 6th, 7th most games], a chance to win games by giving up 3, 4 runs, and keeping the bullpen from wearing down. BMac hasn't been able to do that. If he can, great. But he is only 21 and may need more time. [One more start, maximum] The Sox shouldn't allow a rookie to break into the majors [learning on the job] when they should be gearing up for the playoffs in the 2nd half run. Even a 2nd tier SP like Lilly should be able to give the sox innings. At the minimum, the sox can keep a vet like Lilly out there to eat innings [to keep the pen fresh] even if he gave up 10 runs before the 3rd inning ended. The sox would have to pull a rookie like BMac far earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 01:29 PM) All we need is a 5th starter if El Duque can't stay healthy. Our top four guys are all good enough. And let the other contenders pick up the #1 starter? The Sox should try and pick up the best starter available. This is turning into a year like no other. Going for a 5th starter-type is the kind of conservative style that will have the White Sox watching the World Series on television just like they have the past 45 years, and not winning one the past 88. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Why the panic with getting a starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 I guess they read the papers a day or two late <{POST_SNAPBACK}> beck I think they are reading Sox Talk and WSI. The initial story in the Toronto Sun was from at least a week ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Can I weigh in on this Ted Lilly thing, first, I think KW will aim higher but it all depends if something is available. Second ... if a top line guy isn't available (attainable), Lilly is an excellent fit. He can start or be a long man in the bullpen, and he is a good lefthander who gives a different look than any of the other Sox starters. I know some of you guys don't like him but Lilly knows what he's doing, there is more than just the stats on this guy. He has good stuff and he would help. The question is, what would he cost and who gets bumped? I'd venture to say he will cost more than people on this board would want, in terms of prospects, etc. He's fairly cheap and on most teams he'd be a pretty decent 3rd/4th starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 02:33 PM) Well, I'm not saying he is going to trade for Lilly but why is there a Sox scout looking at him then? Lilly isn't better than El Duque but would he be a better 5th starter than McCarthy? Yes. Did the scout say he was scouting Lilly, its all heresay. He could be there for Koskie for all we know, anyone. I'll put it this way, so everyone can understand. You are getting ready for the state track meet or basketball game, I think you get my drift. You have been looking good all season, things are working for you, conditioning, strength, you are the best out there. All of a sudden you tear one of your shoes. Not disasterous, but in track, this could be a large deal. You then know you need a new pair. Do you 1. go to the store and buy a used pair that is somewhat like your old ones, but not as good, but will give you about the same chance of winning. 2. Spend more money on a better pair, that will help your chances of winning. Because this may be the only chance that you perform this well during a season and have this good of a chance of winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 And let the other contenders pick up the #1 starter? The Sox should try and pick up the best starter available. This is turning into a year like no other. Going for a 5th starter-type is the kind of conservative style that will have the White Sox watching the World Series on television just like they have the past 45 years, and not winning one the past 88. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What can you do then? Try to trade for every top player available? Some other team will trade for the top talent. You can't always something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 07:37 PM) a starter isn't needed. there's nothing wrong with BMac taking his lumps as long as the lead in the central stays in this neighborhood. and as deniro said in midnight run, "that's a pretty respectable neighborhood." The sox shouldn't let their top SP prospect "take his lumps". It's not good for his development. And more importantly, it's not good for the sox team to have to use up its bullpen every 5th day. If the sox did that, not only would its lead shrink, arms would get tired as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 02:46 PM) Did the scout say he was scouting Lilly, its all heresay. He could be there for Koskie for all we know, anyone. I'll put it this way, so everyone can understand. You are getting ready for the state track meet or basketball game, I think you get my drift. You have been looking good all season, things are working for you, conditioning, strength, you are the best out there. All of a sudden you tear one of your shoes. Not disasterous, but in track, this could be a large deal. You then know you need a new pair. Do you 1. go to the store and buy a used pair that is somewhat like your old ones, but not as good, but will give you about the same chance of winning. 2. Spend more money on a better pair, that will help your chances of winning. Because this may be the only chance that you perform this well during a season and have this good of a chance of winning. number 1, stick with what works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 07:40 PM) beck I think they are reading Sox Talk and WSI. The initial story in the Toronto Sun was from at least a week ago. But the Balt. game was just this past Monday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Did the scout say he was scouting Lilly, its all heresay. He could be there for Koskie for all we know, anyone. I'll put it this way, so everyone can understand. You are getting ready for the state track meet or basketball game, I think you get my drift. You have been looking good all season, things are working for you, conditioning, strength, you are the best out there. All of a sudden you tear one of your shoes. Not disasterous, but in track, this could be a large deal. You then know you need a new pair. Do you 1. go to the store and buy a used pair that is somewhat like your old ones, but not as good, but will give you about the same chance of winning. 2. Spend more money on a better pair, that will help your chances of winning. Because this may be the only chance that you perform this well during a season and have this good of a chance of winning. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting analogy, but when discussing track meets I can never get past that cute blonde in your avatar. But yeah, the obvious answer is #2. KW always aim high, no question. The bigger issue is ... who's really available, and is there a trade match with the White Sox? I agree on the heresay aspect in terms of who they were scouting. We never really know, but the Toronto Sun ran with the story seeing there were 4 prominent scouts there. So I do think there's substance but again, you are exactly right, we don't know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 01:40 PM) Why the panic with getting a starter? I don't think its panic. I'd be fine with sticking with BMac in the 5 spot until El Duque is fully recovered for the next month or so. I think its setting yourself up to win more than just a division championship, and getting yourself in great shape to advance in the post season. You look at the post season series, there are more days of in between and teams usually only have to use 3 starters the first round. But then the #4 guy comes up a couple times the second round. How huge would it be if the Sox were able to throw Garland or Buerhle or Garcia or a guy like Schmidt or Pettite or whoever else is going to be available against a team's #4 starter and still be able to match or better them in slots 1-3? Not to mention, picking up a stud prevents the opposition from acquiring him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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