Sox Looking at Ted Lilly

[Guest JimH]

But the Balt. game was just this past Monday?

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When I went to the article I'd thought it was written on 6/13. Either way, 670 mentioned something about it today ... it could be something they're just picking up on (new info) or they're talking about stuff we already know. I have learned not to trust either Offman or Levine but let's face it, those two guys are closer to the situation than we are. They talk to agents a lot, and I suspect that's where they get some of the good stuff.

[beck72]

And let the other contenders pick up the #1 starter? The Sox should try and pick up the best starter available. This is turning into a year like no other. Going for a 5th starter-type is the kind of conservative style that will have the White Sox watching the World Series on television just like they have the past 45 years, and not winning one the past 88.

 

I'd like to see the sox get a top of the line bullpen guy rather than a SP. Few guys out there would be better than the top 4 we have now. The sox can't mortgage the entire farm system for both a top SP, top bullpen guy and a big bat.

 

Could the sox make an impact trade for a bullpen guy like Brad Lidge? More likely to try that than go for a SP with a big contract when the sox will have all 5 SP's back in 2006. Now that wouldn't be too conservative, now would it?!

[beck72]

When I went to the article I'd thought it was written on 6/13.  Either way, 670 mentioned something about it today ... it could be something they're just picking up on (new info) or they're talking about stuff we already know.  I have learned not to trust either Offman or Levine but let's face it, those two guys are closer to the situation than we are.  They talk to agents a lot, and I suspect that's where they get some of the good stuff.

True. They can read media reports and then simply ask yes or no questions of some with firsthand knowledge

[ISF]

Well, tying this in with the Schmidt thread, Larry Monroe was supposedly at the game the other night watching him work.

 

As for Lilly, I'd actually be more interested in Casey Fossum.

Riccardi is likely to want no small sum of prospects for Lilly.

Seems to me Fossum would come to us a little cheaper, although one never knows what Chuck Lamar will ask for.

[CWSGuy406]

First, for the person who said that the Dodger GM is out at the end of the year, are you nuts? They made the playoffs last year, and outside of a rash of injuries, they were doing pretty well this year too.

 

Next, I agree with Jim and beck. Lilly would be a nice pickup, a swingman, ala Glendon Rusch on the Northside. Over his career, he has a career ERA+ of 101, so he's about an average pitcher, which is what a team like the Sox could use as that 5th/6th starter type. Plus, it might just move Vizcaino out of the bullpen, which would definitely be a plus.

 

I've always liked guys who can make the ball move so much, and Lilly has that really nice big, bending curve. That's not any more reason to get him or anything, I'd just like to see him in a Sox uni -- of course, if it doesn't cost a whole lot. Beck already mentioned it, but there's also the possibility of getting draft picks at the end of the year, too, which would be a nice comp for losing a guy like .

[JUGGERNAUT]

Next, I agree with Jim and beck.  Lilly would be a nice pickup, a swingman, ala Glendon Rusch on the Northside. 

 

Exactly! Lilly could easily fit the mold of a Rusch on this team in terms of what he's given the Cubs the last year & half. Probably even more so because Lilly has experience in relief both in the regular & post season. When you have a chance to get 1 player who can fill two holes his value goes up.

 

Lilly adds another LH to the pen that can start if El Duque can't.

[whitesoxmanager]

if you are going to upgrade, do you pull the trigger first? or wait to see what the competition is doing? are we good enough now to win the world series? definitely...what if no other club makes a real formidable deal? problem is that more than likely NY, BALT, BOS are going to be major buyers, so that always pushes the envelope....

[GreatScott82]

KW is just looking at options just in case El-duque doesn't return strong by July 31st. Ted Lilly is the first name we have heard that has been confirmed KW has been looking at. I'm guessing we will here many more names within the next few weeks. Or maybe we won't here any names (FLYING UNDER THE RADAR- Like he did when we aquired Freddy Garcia last season.) Hmm this was the time last season when we aqcuired Freddy- just ended a series at home vs the Cubs. Can we see another acquisition happening in 2005 after the Cubs series at home? Or will KW wait until the deadline like he did when he acquired Jose Contreras from NY? Should be interesting. All I know is we need 1 more reliever and 1 more starter that can possibly go to the bulpen if El-duque comes back. BMac needs some triple-A experience. I wouldn't tamper with our position players- they are all playing well right now- even Crede!!

[sayitaintso]

KW is just looking at options just in case El-duque doesn't return strong by July 31st. Ted Lilly is the first name we have heard that has been confirmed KW has been looking at. I'm guessing we will here many more names within the next few weeks. Or maybe we won't here any names (FLYING UNDER THE RADAR- Like he did when we aquired Freddy Garcia last season.) Hmm this was the time last season when we aqcuired Freddy- just ended a series at home vs the Cubs. Can we see another acquisition happening in 2005 after the Cubs series at home? Or will KW wait until the deadline like he did when he acquired Jose Contreras from NY? Should be interesting. All I know is we need 1 more reliever and 1 more starter that can possibly go to the bulpen if El-duque comes back. BMac needs some triple-A experience. I wouldn't tamper with our position players- they are all playing well right now- even Crede!!

Agreed.

[3E8]

Isn't Lilly a major flyball pitcher? I don't feel very comfortable with him.

[beck72]

Isn't Lilly a major flyball pitcher?  I don't feel very comfortable with him.

 

He throws more FB than GB. like a 0.80 ratio. Though in HR's allowed in '03 w/ Oak, gave up 24 in 178 1/3 ip, and 26 in '04 in Toronto in 197 1/3 ip. IIRC, Toronto is supposed to be more of hitter's park than Oak.

 

One thing else looking at his stats, his K/ 9 would lead the team right now at 7.23. Jose is next at 7.02, with Freddy at 5.72, MB at 5.66 and Jon at 4.29. EL Duque is at 6.03.

[AirScott]

this would be one of those moves that would get the reaction of "that's nice Kenny, but what else ya got?"

[Guest JimH]

He throws more FB than GB. like a 0.80 ratio. Though in HR's allowed in '03 w/ Oak, gave up 24 in 178 1/3 ip, and 26 in '04 in Toronto in 197 1/3 ip. IIRC, Toronto is supposed to be more of hitter's park than Oak.

 

One thing else looking at his stats, his K/ 9 would lead the team right now at 7.23. Jose is next at 7.02, with Freddy at 5.72, MB at 5.66 and Jon at 4.29. EL Duque is at 6.03.

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He has pretty good stuff, and would make this pitching staff better. I'm not surprised they're looking at him.

[beck72]

Exactly!  Lilly could easily fit the mold of a Rusch on this team in terms of what he's given the Cubs the last year & half.  Probably even more so because Lilly has experience in relief both in the regular & post season.  When you have a chance to get 1 player who can fill two holes his value goes up.

 

Lilly adds another LH to the pen that can start if El Duque can't.

 

You'll like his 2nd half splits since at least 2002. With his being a strong 2nd half pitcher, after struggling big time now, the sox could get him at a better value and watch him take off.

[Guest JimH]

You'll like his 2nd half splits since at least 2002. With his being a strong 2nd half pitcher, after struggling big time now, the sox could get him at a better value and watch him take off.

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I suspect he won't come as cheaply as this board would like.

[beck72]

this would be one of those moves that would get the reaction of "that's nice Kenny, but what else ya got?"

True, but if it helps the pen from coming into games in the 3rd inning, and nets a guy who could also eat innings as a long man in the pen, that makes the team better for the short term and long term.

 

It also helps save the sox from giving up talent that could be better used for acquiring a bullpen guy.

[beck72]

I suspect he won't come as cheaply as this board would like.

 

Many on this board would like him traded for Borchard straight up . But it would be interesting to see what Tor. would want for him, prospects, near ready talent, or major league guys. Hard to see Tor. wanting major leaguers, unless its a Vizcaino type who they think has talent but is struggling in the short run

[Guest JimH]

Many on this board would like him traded for Borchard straight up . But it would be interesting to see what Tor. would want for him, prospects, near ready talent, or major league guys. Hard to see Tor. wanting major leaguers, unless its a Vizcaino type who they think has talent but is struggling in the short run

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One thing for sure, the Toronto people are looking to compete. The fans and media have been on their ass for being an also-ran, and attendance has been down. They've stated they want to be competitive vs. dumping proven major leaguers for prospects, ala the Pirates.

 

What this means in terms of Ted Lilly, I don't know. But I highly doubt it'd be any of our crap in exchange for Lilly. The Sox would have to trade something they don't want to give up.

 

I'm pretty well convinced whatever the Sox might do trade-wise, we are looking at prospects going the other way. Further I think all bets are off right now. For the right piece (ace pitcher, ace closer) I think every single prospect is available. Including McCarthy, Anderson, Sweeney, Gio Gonzalez ... everybody. However if they're looking at tweaking the bench, then you're still looking at trading prospects but obviously not the blue chippers.

 

Lastly I would say guys like Borchard, Diaz have very very little trade value, next to none. Every organization has guys like them.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Or maybe we won't here any names (FLYING UNDER THE RADAR- Like he did when we aquired Freddy Garcia last season.)

 

Actually, KW did not fly under the radar concerning Garcia. Rumors were flying for almost three months about KW coveting Freddy before he landed him. It was a foregone conclusion that Freddy was either going to the Yankees or the Sox, if I recall correctly.

[quickman]

One thing for sure, the Toronto people are looking to compete.  The fans and media have been on their ass for being an also-ran, and attendance has been down.  They've stated they want to be competitive vs. dumping proven major leaguers for prospects, ala the Pirates.

 

What this means in terms of Ted Lilly, I don't know.  But I highly doubt it'd be any of our crap in exchange for Lilly.  The Sox would have to trade something they don't want to give up.

 

I'm pretty well convinced whatever the Sox might do trade-wise, we are looking at prospects going the other way.  Further I think all bets are off right now.  For the right piece (ace pitcher, ace closer) I think every single prospect is available.  Including McCarthy, Anderson, Sweeney, Gio Gonzalez ... everybody.  However if they're looking at tweaking the bench, then you're still looking at trading prospects but obviously not the blue chippers.

 

Lastly I would say guys like Borchard, Diaz have very very little trade value, next to none.  Every organization has guys like them.

 

Jim I read what you stated, and its a pretty good summary. What would I be without a comment! I think Lilly is an excellent swing man especially if they don't know about ElDuque. I personally think the sox might want to keep ElDuque on the shelf for a longer period of time. Getting Lilly is not great but he is very serviceable.

 

My second point, You know I care nothing for prospects. In fact I really don't care about BMAC or Anderson or Sweeney. I think prospects are either going to be great or should be used for trade bait. As I have stated many times trade all of them and give me a world series. Therefore, I am sure if we do trade for Lilly that it will be a fair deal because very few of these guys make it.

 

Lastly, If not lilly then why not, Ryan Franklin,or Kip Wells. They can fill the need just as easily. Especially Franklin he eats innings and can swing in the pen if needed.

[Guest JimH]

Ryan Franklin is a good idea too. Don't know if the Mariners would part with him though. But then again every team has its price, too bad we didn't draft Jeremy Reed's little brother.

 

Here is why I like Lilly better though ... more K's. Lilly can strike people out, as I recall Franklin is about the furthest thing from strikeout pitcher there is.

 

But the key is, a guy who can be a swing man. And sub for El Duque.

Edited June 24, 2005 by JimH