Jason Schdimt to the Sox??

[VAfan]

I've read through this entire thread but I'm not convinced Schmidt would put us over the top. Maybe it's because I haven't seen him pitch enough.

 

I just wonder how much better Schmidt would be than Garcia or Garland or even, yes, Contreras, who is #2 in the AL in opposing batting average.

 

We don't need a starter to win the AL Central or finish with the best record in the AL. If we are going to pay to get a starter the point would be to have it be the key acquisition to win the World Series.

 

Now Schmidt has actually pitched in the World Series, so that is something. And he's a power pitcher the likes of which we don't have. Plus AJ knows him from last year. So I see the arguments...

 

The other thing that makes me pause is an article on John Hart down in Texas, who built the Indians into a perenial winner. He did so by cultivating his young players and signing them out past their FA walking years. The Twins do the same. I think that is the only way to build a long term winner in baseball if you are not the Yankees or BoSox and can spend billions.

 

Because there is enough doubt in my mind about Schmidt's marginal value (over what we have), especially given the NL-to-AL inflation in ERA, I wouldn't surrender any top prospects for Schmidt. No McCarthy. No Anderson. No Sweeney.

 

But if SF would take second tier prospects - Diaz, Borchard, etc. and perhaps El Duque (if they wanted him) - and we paid Schmidt's contract, I could be persuaded.

 

What I'd rather have is Roger Clemens, however, because he is a bona fide #1 pitcher who would allow Buehrle, Garcia and Garland to easily best other teams' 2-4 starters. For Clemens, I'd also be willing to consider trading a single impact prospect and lower tier guys, but not more.

[kapkomet]

I tend to agree that a POWER PITCHER is what we lack. We have a lot of guys who are more the "finesse" type, which candidly don't have as much success in the playoffs when the strike zone mysteriously becomes a little smaller.

 

We need a guy who can take the ball in a game when we need it and put the opponents on the defensive. I don't give a damn if he's a #1 or a #5 right now - as long as that requirement is met, go get him, and trade talent to get it, because it will put us "over the top".

[BigSqwert]

I tend to agree that a POWER PITCHER is what we lack.  We have a lot of guys who are more the "finesse" type, which candidly don't have as much success in the playoffs when the strike zone mysteriously becomes a little smaller.

 

We need a guy who can take the ball in a game when we need it and put the opponents on the defensive.  I don't give a damn if he's a #1 or a #5 right now - as long as that requirement is met, go get him, and trade talent to get it, because it will put us "over the top".

 

Amen to that!

 

[Milkman delivers]

pitcher who would allow Buehrle, Garcia and Garland to easily best other teams' 2-4 starters.  For Clemens, I'd also be willing to consider trading a single impact prospect and lower tier guys, but not more.

 

So, you wouldn't give up prospects for a guy like Schmidt, but you'd give up probably more prospects and a ridiculous amount of money to get Clemens? You said it yourself, we're not the Yankees or Red Sox. And you went against your own logic.

[Antonio Osuna]

**** the future. I want to win now.

 

I'd pull the trigger on sending the combined outfields of our AAA, AA, and A teams for either Schmidt or Clemens.

[nitetrain8601]

Schmidt, even with his last 2 starts, does not deserve to be the 2 on this team. So far Freddy and Jon would go ahead of him in my book. I don't even know if I would put him before Count.

 

Anyway, talking about this is nonsense. I don't see KW going after Schmidt. I see more Lilly than anyone else.

[GreenSox]

We need a 5th starter (maybe - hopefully, Duque will get healthy and we won't have to waste resources on a 5th starter, as they don't pitch in the playoffs). Or we need a killer starter like Clemens (and really no one else) - Houston is still in the wild card race, so they ain't dealing him soon.

 

To spend a bunch of players, money on some #3 quality starter makes no sense. Unless his name his Clemens, no pitcher we get will be much better, if better at all, than Garland, Garcia or MB. I doubt they'd be better than Contreras, to tell the truth.

Edited June 25, 2005 by GreenSox

[CWSOX45]

I can't believe I'm hearing this....this is f***ING JASON SCHMIDT. He can be down right filthy! He struggled earlier this year because he was hurt. Look, whenever you have the opportunity to get a guy like Jason Schmidt, you don't sit around and watch other contenders take a shot. It's also good to have 6 PROVEN starting pitchers come October. Hell, look how many the Red Sox had last year, they had Bronson Arroyo coming out of the pen!

 

We need to get Schmidt. It gives us a lot more options, and in my opinion the more money JR pays to the Giants for Schmidt's contract, the less talent we'll have to give up.

 

The last thing you want is the Red Sox, Angels, Yankees, or Orioles getting him.

 

CWSOX45

[GoodAsGould]

I think people who are down on Schmidt are just looking at this year stats.... guys this guy has been one of the best NL starters in the past 5 years 2nd only to RJ prob and now Clemens he is just having a bad start... but it looks like he has gotten back into a groove his last 2 starts and if he is healthy he would be our best pitcher in the playoffs above Buehrle.

[beck72]

We don't need a starter to win the AL Central or finish with the best record in the AL.  If we are going to pay to get a starter the point would be to have it be the key acquisition to win the World Series. 

 

Now Schmidt has actually pitched in the World Series, so that is something.  And he's a power pitcher the likes of which we don't have.  Plus AJ knows him from last year.  So I see the arguments...

 

The other thing that makes me pause is an article on John Hart down in Texas, who built the Indians into a perenial winner.  He did so by cultivating his young players and signing them out past their FA walking years.  The Twins do the same.  I think that is the only way to build a long term winner in baseball if you are not the Yankees or BoSox and can spend billions. 

 

Because there is enough doubt in my mind about Schmidt's marginal value (over what we have), especially given the NL-to-AL inflation in ERA, I wouldn't surrender any top prospects for Schmidt.  No McCarthy.  No Anderson.  No Sweeney.

 

But if SF would take second tier prospects - Diaz, Borchard, etc. and perhaps El Duque (if they wanted him) - and we paid Schmidt's contract, I could be persuaded.

 

What I'd rather have is Roger Clemens, however, because he is a bona fide #1 pitcher who would allow Buehrle, Garcia and Garland to easily best other teams' 2-4 starters.  For Clemens, I'd also be willing to consider trading a single impact prospect and lower tier guys, but not more.

A few thoughts.

 

I orginally didn't see the need for an ace like Schmidt. My thought was get a #5 guy like Lilly who could be insurance for El Duque and also pitch from the pen.

 

A big question that hasn't been asked, is, can all the top 4 SP's having career or near career years keep it up? One or two guys come back down to earth, and the Sox could be out early in the playoffs. Getting an ace solidifies the rotation for the playoffs. Esp. a strikeout pitcher like Schmidt, the type who can dominate games.

 

2nd tier prospects won't cut it for Schmidt. He's deserving of top talent.

 

Any moves made now will be geared toward taking the sox deep into the playoffs. It may involve trading good talent. Yet the sox have a young core locked up for a few yrs: Arow, Uribe, MB, Freddy, and probably Garland, Pods and AJ. And others for at least another yr: Iguchi, Dye, both cubans.

 

The question the sox brass has to ask is how big of an impact will the guys like Anderson and BMac make. If they are impact, game changing players, maybe I wouldn't trade them. If they should be decent regulars, I'd trade them for an impact type player.

[Southside hitmen]

todays NY Post had this artice

 

 

Schmidt can be had, but the Yanks worry about his chronic shoulder problems, high salary and the Giants' big demands. A few executives said they thought the Red Sox, White Sox and Rangers were most likely to pursue San Francisco's ace

[beck72]

todays NY Post had this artice

Schmidt can be had, but the Yanks worry about his chronic shoulder problems, high salary and the Giants' big demands. A few executives said they thought the Red Sox, White Sox and Rangers were most likely to pursue San Francisco's ace

 

Boston will probably shore up its bullpen and wait for Schilling to come back. The Rangers don't like to trade its prospects or young guys. That may change.

 

Schmidt's price could come down to the point that SF won't trade him due to the injury concerns/ lack of velocity. They might be better off sticking with him. Or in another article, Sabean said not picking up his 2006 option for $3 mill is possible.

[3E8]

Is a nagging injury the reason for his poor start to this season?

[upnorthsox]

Or is it his sudden drop in velocity? Or both?

 

Be very wary when you're ready to give up the farm for guys with unexplained velocity drops. Koch

[Jabroni]

Boston will probably shore up its bullpen and wait for Schilling to come back. The Rangers don't like to trade its prospects or young guys. That may change.

 

Schmidt's price could come down to the point that SF won't trade him due to the injury concerns/ lack of velocity. They might be better off sticking with him. Or in another article, Sabean said not picking up his 2006 option for $3 mill is possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That won't happen. Why would they keep Schmidt for the rest of their losing season and then pay him his $3 million buyout to get rid of him? They are going to decide to either trade him at the deadline or pick up his $10 million option for next season. Keeping him for the rest of this season and then buying out his contract would make absolutely no sense. Sabean is just trying to up the ante on Schmidt's trade value to the teams that are interested in him.

Edited June 25, 2005 by Jabroni

[Rowand44]

That won't happen.  Why would they keep Schmidt for the rest of their losing season and then pay him $3 million to get rid of him?  They are going to decide to either trade him at the deadline or pick up his $10 million option for next season.  Keeping him and buying out his contract would make absolutely no sense.  Sabean is just trying to up the ante on Schmidt to other teams that are interested in him.

Right, that would make 0 sense. I still say if Sabean decides Schmidt's available and Kenny wants to get him he will, maybe we can trade Minny Minoso for him.

[Dick Allen]

Or is it his sudden drop in velocity? Or both?

 

Be very wary when you're ready to give up the farm for guys with unexplained velocity drops. Koch

 

Supposedly he was hitting 95 his last start.

[Iguana]

Right, that would make 0 sense.  I still say if Sabean decides Schmidt's available and Kenny wants to get him he will, maybe we can trade Minny Minoso for him.

 

Tell them we have this top prospect....Joe Jackson. Kind of a goofie one though. Forgot his shoes one time.

[GreenSox]

What gives us a better chance to win a WS?

 

Trade our future for 3 month rental of Schmidt?

 

Or keep producing playoff teams for the next 5 years, replacing Dye, the cubans, etc. with cheaper talent (which may or may not be talent, agreed) from our farm system, freeing up cash to pursue free agents and pay the raises that MB et al will deserve and get from someone?

 

I believe that the latter approach is wiser given our budget constraints. Now if he's healthy AND if we plan on signing him, that's another story. But you don't pay a price like we paid for Garcia, short of confidence in him being in the long term plans. And it appears that the Giants are asking more than the Mariners asked for Garcia.

Edited June 25, 2005 by GreenSox

[Chisoxfn]

Well the way I am seeing it I wouldn't mind giving up BMac and Anderson for Schimdt for the simple fact that Schimdt is a proven Ace and Bmac is not yet proven anything and Anderson where does he fit in here now that the Sox have an over abundance of outfielders already?? Taking on the contract doesn't seem like the Sox would be all that worried about it if they are willing to trade for him does it?? Reinsdorf already said for a difference maker he would spend the cash right? Plus it doesn't appear as though KW or Ozzie are all that in love with El Duque to not deal him or move him to the pen if need be. I wouldn't worry so much about the pen most of the guys have proven solid and Shingo looks to be coming around. Right now I would say the weak link is Vizcaino and if El Duque goes to the pen well he takes his place anyway...IMO.

BMac and Anderson for Schmidt = HELL YA

[upnorthsox]

I had an interesting look thru the transactions of WS participants in the last ten yrs, the first thing that pops out at you is the lack of trades by these teams in June-Aug of that yr. The best pitching pickups? Urbina in '03 for the Marlins and Ken Hill for the Tribe in '95. The only other two worth mention is Dave Weathers for the Mets '00 and Leskanic for the Red Sox in '04, both of those only really contibuted during the playoffs.

 

There are however some nice snafu's by teams who didn't make it to the WS with '98 being the ultimate yr with Houston trading Garcia, Guillen, and Halama for 2 months of RJ, The scrubs Garland for Karchner, and the Tribe trading Shawon Dunston and Jose Mesa for Steve Reed. Other ones, A's trade Carlos Pena, German, and Jeremy Bonderman for Ted Lilly, '99 Mets trade Issy and McMichael for Billy Taylor, '99 DBacks trade Nunez, Nunez, and Penny for Mantei, and finally maybe the all-time worst pitching trade spree the '97 Mariners who traded Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb, Jose Cruz Jr for Mike Timlin, and Joe Mays for Roberto Kelley. The M's btw lost 3-1 in the ALDS to the O's.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Well Randy Johnson was phenomenal for the Astros and sometiems you have to take a shot at the World Series, and coming up short doesn't necessarily mean you were wrong for trying.

[Frankensteiner]

I had an interesting look thru the transactions of WS participants in the last ten yrs, the first thing that pops out at you is the lack of trades by these teams in June-Aug of that yr. The best pitching pickups? Urbina in '03 for the Marlins and Ken Hill for the Tribe in '95. The only other two worth mention is Dave Weathers for the Mets '00 and Leskanic for the Red Sox in '04, both of those only really contibuted during the playoffs.

 

Just looking at the last 2 years, you missed St. Louis acquiring Larry Walker and Boston trading Nomar for Cabrera.

 

From 2003, you've mentioned the Urbina trade (which was huge) but should also remember the Yankees trading for Aaron Boone (who was, at least at that time, a big name).

[upnorthsox]

Well Randy Johnson was phenomenal for the Astros and sometiems you have to take a shot at the World Series, and coming up short doesn't necessarily mean you were wrong for trying.

 

Sure he pitch well and he helped them get to the playoffs in a tight race but he wasn't the difference in them making it to the WS and the reason for emptying the farm for a Schmidt is to get to the WS right? In fact, when SF traded for Schmidt at the deadline he was awesome going 7-1 down the stretch for them but it wasn't even enough to get them in the playoffs.

[upnorthsox]

Just looking at the last 2 years, you missed St. Louis acquiring Larry Walker and Boston trading Nomar for Cabrera.

 

From 2003, you've mentioned the Urbina trade (which was huge) but should also remember the Yankees trading for Aaron Boone (who was, at least at that time, a big name).

 

As I said, the best pitching pickups. I'm not so sure that Walker wasn't overkill or that Boston couldn't have won with Nomar, I would actually say that getting Dave Roberts was bigger for them. The biggest non-pitching pickup by a WS team in the last 10 yrs? Dave Justice by the Yanks in 2000 by a long shot, but then that was a pretty mediocre team to begin with.