Jason Schdimt to the Sox??

[Frankensteiner]

If Schmidt is throwing 95 again, would SF trade him?

 

They're not going to win the division this year and their main players are in their late 30's or 40's. Seems like a good time to rebuild.

[RockRaines]

They're not going to win the division this year and their main players are in their late 30's or 40's. Seems like a good time to rebuild.

It is, and they have some bats that will allow them to do it. The only problem is Bonds getting back. They already traded 2 young players for LaChoke, which was a dumb move in my opinion.

[whitesoxmanager]

Does anyone have the complete stats on JS when he pitches against the AL? I am thinking that Boston, NY, Angels & Minn all are good fastball hitting teams...? I would rather have El Duque go as the #4 starter in the playoffs due to the movement on his ball, his experience, & his playoff record. If he is not healthy then that is another question...Perhaps by playoffs the Sox will be able to move either Contreras or El Duque to bullpen. As for Marte, I didn't like the way Jerry Manuel utilized him, he should have made him the man and had his back the way that Torre had Rivera. The guy I am worried about the most is Dustin...I know he is having a stellar year and hope he continues, but if & when we get to the Series this year...the NL pretty much has owned him in the past....?

[JUGGERNAUT]

I did think about the Rangers, but seeing they too are 3.5 gb of the WC, & 4.5 gb in the ALW their an obvious choice for any of the starters on Houston.

 

Their biggest weakness remains SP.

A 4 Young, Chris TEX R 3.06NE 82.2IP 70K .668OPS

A 13 Rogers, Kenny TEX L 3.44NE 98.2IP 44K .681OPS

 

Astacio is better than his era, but Park & Drese are losers. Texas would be foolish to waste a solid 1-2 & one of the best lineups in MLB on a weak rotation. If Houston is planning a firesale they should be dealing with their upstate rivals.

[Frankensteiner]

Even if they regain form, I still consider Marte, Shingo and even Cotts "iffy".    Sure I think they can get hot for a couple of weeks here and there, but then will slump. What if that slump occurs in October?

We're talking about post season ball, I'd like something more solid.

 

I don't exactly disagree with you about the bullpen shakiness, but at this point, I'm probably more confident in Marte regaining form than El Duque staying healthy for the duration of the year.

[Southside hitmen]

APR 21 ARI 0 0 3.24 0 7.0 6 3 1 5

APR 26 SD 0 0 3.41 0 6.2 8 3 4 7

MAY 02 @ARI 0 0 3.76 0 6.2 8 4 5 4

MAY 07 WSH 0 0 4.71 0 3.2 6 6 6 3

MAY 24 LAD 1 0 4.79 0 5.0 5 3 3 7

MAY 29 SD 0 0 5.08 0 4.1 8 4 2 2

JUN 05 @NYM 0 1 5.69 0 4.0 4 6 4 3

JUN 11 CLE 0 1 6.12 0 5.0 6 6 3 7

JUN 17 @DET 1 0 5.40 0 8.0 7 0 1 5

JUN 22 ARI 1 0 4.83 0 8.0 5 0 2 10

 

Totals 3 2 5.40 0 58.1 63 35 31 53

 

 

These are JS last 10 games

[LosMediasBlancas]

I don't exactly disagree with you about the bullpen shakiness, but at this point, I'm probably more confident in Marte regaining form than El Duque staying healthy for the duration of the year.

 

I see your point, but I think this 'injury' to Duque is fatigue more than anything. He'll be rested often, but he'll be fine.

[Cubs Suck23]

Here in San Fran the rumor is that the Giants wants to trade several older players and get alot younger...

 

Players that are rumor to be traded is

Alou

Schmidt

Durham

Rueter

Alfonzo

Feliz

Snow

[whitesoxmanager]

it is still premature, but it does appear that the sox are getting close to wrapping up the division, so a starting pitcher acquisition would really be targeted to help the playoff run. remember the playoffs are usually pitched in much cooler if not cold weather and that would definitely help a fastball pitcher like Schmidt? who wants to hit a 95er in 45 degree temps? as of today 92 games remain...if the sox go 46-46 then minnesota would need to go 56-36 just to tie...pretty unlikely to assume the sox to play .500 ball for one and i can't see minne doing it this year.

[JUGGERNAUT]

The more I look at our needs & what a player will cost us I see Lilly as the answer. He's got good numbers in his first 30 pitches over his career & in 2005 to suggest a strong arm in the pen. He's not a great starter but definitely one that will keep you in games (like El Duque). He's perfect for the dual job of relief & spot starts. You can do a LOT worse than sharing the 4th between Lilly & El Duque.

 

If Schmidt's last start was impressive would Lilly's 14IP, 2R, 16K's vs STL & BAL not be any less impressive? I would say that's impressive for a guy who would be 4th in the White Sox rotation.

 

Lilly's last 4 starts have been impressive: 3.46E, 26IP, 9W, 19K .208BAA

Against WC/div contenders:

BAL .216BAA, .733OOP

BOS .250BAA, .789OOP

CLE .240BAA, .677OOP

DET .229BAA, .647OOP

LAA .229BAA, .721OOP

MIN .244BAA, .789OOP

NYY .247BAA, .790OOP

 

That's against the 2005 players on those teams & there's no real damage there. Not one contender is hitting better than .250 vs him.

 

My vote is for Lilly. He'll learn quickly just from watching Mark pitch. He could be a big surprise lift for the White Sox.

Edited June 23, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Kyyle23]

Here in San Fran the rumor is that the Giants wants to trade several older players and get alot younger...

 

Players that are rumor to be traded is

Alou

Schmidt

Durham

Rueter

Alfonzo

Feliz

Snow

 

 

I wonder what it would cost to pry JT Snow AND Schmidt away from the Giants. That would solve every problem the Sox have (theoretically) wouldnt it? Duque (or even Contreras) to the Pen, a good backup for 1B. If Crede is dying at third, Uribe could move to third and Ozuna could go to SS, without having to worry about backup depth at the 2b position.

 

dreamin out loud......

Edited June 23, 2005 by kyyle23

[RockRaines]

The more I look at our needs & what a player will cost us I see Lilly as the answer.  He's got good numbers in his first 30 pitches over his career & in 2005 to suggest a strong arm in the pen.  He's not a great starter but definitely one that will keep you in games (like El Duque).  He's perfect for the dual job of relief & spot starts.  You can do a LOT worse than sharing the 4th between Lilly & El Duque.

 

If Schmidt's last start was impressive would Lilly's 14IP, 2R, 16K's vs STL & BAL not be any less impressive?  I would say that's impressive for a guy who would be 4th in the White Sox rotation. 

 

Lilly's last 4 starts have been impressive: 3.46E, 26IP, 9W, 19K .208BAA

Against WC/div contenders:

BAL .216BAA, .733OOP

BOS .250BAA, .789OOP

CLE .240BAA, .677OOP

DET .229BAA, .647OOP

LAA .229BAA, .721OOP

MIN .244BAA, .789OOP

NYY .247BAA, .790OOP

 

That's against the 2005 players on those teams & there's no real damage there.  Not one contender is hitting better than .250 vs him.

 

My vote is for Lilly.

 

 

Lilly's Career stats vs Schmidt's

 

it was a nice stretch for an arguement, but come on Juggs.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Lilly's Career stats vs Schmidt's

 

it was a nice stretch for an arguement, but come on Juggs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Schmidt's is having a weak year & has never pitched regularly against AL lineups.

Lilly is proven success in that dept. Schmidt is still a health risk & a question mark.

Just look at Pavano & Johnson for how hard it is for fireballers to make the transition.

 

Chemistry wise Lilly will do whatever is asked of him because he's done that his whole career. He's not a big headed ego. Schmidt has been a #1 for most of his career. I don't know how he will sit as #4/#5 nor how he'll take to sharing the spot with El Duque.

 

If we are more concerned about chemistry than fortifying weakness Lilly is a far lower risk in that dept.

[CanOfCorn]

Schmidt's is having a weak year & has never pitched regularly against AL lineups. 

Lilly is proven success in that dept.  Schmidt is still a health risk & a question mark.

Just look at Pavano & Johnson for how hard it is for fireballers to make the transition.

 

Chemistry wise Lilly will do whatever is asked of him because he's done that his whole career.  He's not a big headed ego.  Schmidt has been a #1 for most of his career.  I don't know how he will sit as #4/#5 nor how he'll take to sharing the spot with El Duque.

 

If we are more concerned about chemistry than fortifying weakness Lilly is a far lower risk in that dept.

 

As Jon Garland said, #1 starter only means something once a year. After that, you go out every 5 days and pitch.

 

(as a hijacked sidenote) I do like the idea of getting JT Snow, though.

[RockRaines]

Schmidt's is having a weak year & has never pitched regularly against AL lineups. 

Lilly is proven success in that dept.  Schmidt is still a health risk & a question mark.

Just look at Pavano & Johnson for how hard it is for fireballers to make the transition.

 

Chemistry wise Lilly will do whatever is asked of him because he's done that his whole career.  He's not a big headed ego.  Schmidt has been a #1 for most of his career.  I don't know how he will sit as #4/#5 nor how he'll take to sharing the spot with El Duque.

 

If we are more concerned about chemistry than fortifying weakness Lilly is a far lower risk in that dept.

You are debating the value of an Ace, vs. a #4 guy. Come on, Schmidt is an Ace, could make our rotation the best in the league, Lilly is no better than anyone on our staff. I dont buy it.

[whitesoxmanager]

you know this might sound utterly rediculous but i can never understand why the Cubs & Sox don't help each other over the hump especially when one is making a run and the other isn't...the cubs season is by no means over, but in the past couldn't these two teams just rent each others talent and then after the postseason just return to sender? i mean what is the mayor doing? as much as i would hate to see the cubs win...it would have been cool to see MB on the Cubs the year they gave away the WS to the Marlins, & how nice it would be to see prior for cubs fans this year pitching for the sox? there are guys out there that could break legs if the player wasn't returned...no?

[RockRaines]

you know this might sound utterly rediculous but i can never understand why the Cubs & Sox don't help each other over the hump especially when one is making a run and the other isn't...the cubs season is by no means over, but in the past couldn't these two teams just rent each others talent and then after the postseason just return to sender?  i mean what is the mayor doing?  as much as i would hate to see the cubs win...it would have been cool to see MB on the Cubs the year they gave away the WS to the Marlins, & how nice it would be to see prior for cubs fans this year pitching for the sox?  there are guys out there that could break legs if the player wasn't returned...no?

:headshake

[daa84]

Schmidt's is having a weak year & has never pitched regularly against AL lineups. 

Lilly is proven success in that dept.  Schmidt is still a health risk & a question mark.

Just look at Pavano & Johnson for how hard it is for fireballers to make the transition.

 

Chemistry wise Lilly will do whatever is asked of him because he's done that his whole career.  He's not a big headed ego.  Schmidt has been a #1 for most of his career.  I don't know how he will sit as #4/#5 nor how he'll take to sharing the spot with El Duque.

 

If we are more concerned about chemistry than fortifying weakness Lilly is a far lower risk in that dept.

come on, johnson a fireballer, yes, but surely not pavano. pavano was early in his career, in montreal, but he throws sooo many sliders now. he reminds me of arroyo. he certainly isnt a fireballer. what about schilling? hes a fireballer that made the transition. This was a stupid arguement to begin with. if you are gonna try to use two guys like johnson and pavano as two examples you need more than that. two examples doenst provide any hard evidence. look at a larger group of ppl then tell me something

[whitesoxmanager]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 09:47 AM)

You are debating the value of an Ace, vs. a #4 guy.  Come on, Schmidt is an Ace, could make our rotation the best in the league, Lilly is no better than anyone on our staff.  I dont buy it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well the same could've been said last year when the rumors were flying that Garland & Konerko were going to Arizona for RJ?

[GoodAsGould]

you know this might sound utterly rediculous but i can never understand why the Cubs & Sox don't help each other over the hump especially when one is making a run and the other isn't...the cubs season is by no means over, but in the past couldn't these two teams just rent each others talent and then after the postseason just return to sender?  i mean what is the mayor doing?  as much as i would hate to see the cubs win...it would have been cool to see MB on the Cubs the year they gave away the WS to the Marlins, & how nice it would be to see prior for cubs fans this year pitching for the sox?  there are guys out there that could break legs if the player wasn't returned...no?

 

that is just so wrong :puke and not because it would help the cubs but because just doing that is wrong

[whitesoxmanager]

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 09:53 AM)

that is just so wrong  :puke and not because it would help the cubs but because just doing that is wrong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is no doubt that it is totally and completely against the integrity of the game, but aren't the teams with money doing it already?

[Kyyle23]

Schmidt's is having a weak year & has never pitched regularly against AL lineups. 

Lilly is proven success in that dept.  Schmidt is still a health risk & a question mark.

 

Sure, if proven success means a career 4.49 ERA, with only two of his 8 years under 4.

 

Just look at Pavano & Johnson for how hard it is for fireballers to make the transition.

 

Are you inferring that Randy Johnson has had a hard time going through a transition BACK to the AL? Maybe it is just that he has lost 7 MPH off of his fastball in the past 4 years and has had major knee and back problems for the past 2 years?

 

Chemistry wise Lilly will do whatever is asked of him because he's done that his whole career.  He's not a big headed ego.  Schmidt has been a #1 for most of his career.  I don't know how he will sit as #4/#5 nor how he'll take to sharing the spot with El Duque.

 

So if Schmidt isnt annointed #1 he is going to be unhappy? You think he is going to give a s***? He would be inserted into the rotation wherever a spot was open, and pitch, just like anyone else would.

 

If we are more concerned about chemistry than fortifying weakness Lilly is a far lower risk in that dept.

 

debatable.

[BlackBetsy]

you know this might sound utterly rediculous but i can never understand why the Cubs & Sox don't help each other over the hump especially when one is making a run and the other isn't...the cubs season is by no means over, but in the past couldn't these two teams just rent each others talent and then after the postseason just return to sender?  i mean what is the mayor doing?  as much as i would hate to see the cubs win...it would have been cool to see MB on the Cubs the year they gave away the WS to the Marlins, & how nice it would be to see prior for cubs fans this year pitching for the sox?  there are guys out there that could break legs if the player wasn't returned...no?

 

I agree with you 100%. It is utterly ridiculous.

[whitesoxmanager]

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Jun 23, 2005 -> 10:05 AM)

I agree with you 100%.  It is utterly ridiculous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well a trade is a trade isn't it?

 

i would like to see baseball shorten the season a month so the playoffs aren't played in extreme cold & add a best of five game all-star week to determine the worldseries home team! The AL vs NL allstars just isn't played out enough IMO.

[TheBlackSox8]

The problem I have with the first post is that it leaves out both CLE & DET.

In the WC race MIN 2 gb, CLE 3.5 gb, DET 4.5 gb. In terms of who has the $ to spend to make a push they all do.  MIN is 28% ahead of last year's attendance, CLE has been one of the most profitable franchises in MLB the last decade & Illich is the Tom Hicks of the ALC. 

 

2005 A-33  Schmidt, Jason      SFG R  3.86NPERA 76.1IP 74K .753OOP

You can't ignore his 74K's in 76.1IP.

 

Both CLE & DET feature two strong LHers in their rotation.  DET is in greater need of a RHSP than CLE is.  If I had to bet on which team will get Schmidt I'd say it's DET.  They already have the lineup to score runs.  If they add Schmidt to that rotation in that ball park when Maggs returns they might be unbeatable & a probable WC team.

 

Money is no object to Illich so I'd put him as the favorite to land Schmidt. 

 

The problem is you can't play keep away this year.  If you trade the farm to land Schmidt then DET can snag Oswalt.  So getting Schmidt for that reason makes no sense.

 

If I'm KW & I'm willing to spend that kind of $ then Pettite & not Schmidt is my target.

Which of the two will mean greater revenue to the Astros in 2006 (Clemens or Pettite)?  The answer is obvious.  Is Roger not going to play in 2006 after the year he's having in 2005?  Please. 

 

Pettite can probably be had for less than what it will cost to get Schmidt.  His post-season experience & AL experience is of no lesser value than El Duque.  Will he wave his no trade clause to go to the CWS? Why not?  The CWS is the best team in baseball in the same time zone as his family lives today.  It's less of an adjustment to move from Houston to Chicago than back to the east coast.

 

05 A-15  Pettitte, Andy      HOU L  3.08NPERA 90.2IP 66K  .689OOP

04 B-23  Pettitte, Andy      HOU L  2.94NPERA 83.0IP 79K  .665OOP

03 A-12  Pettitte, Andy      NYY L  3.36NPERA 208.1  180K

 

If Clemens is available then you would be stupid not to trade the farm to get him.

The guy looks stronger than ever & a good bet for starting another 2 yrs at least.

But I don't see any logic for the Astros in dealing him.  His salary is easily paid for by the attendance & media dollars he brings in for the team.  You are talking about a player who might just be the biggest marquee name in the game today.  The guy is happy living & playing for Houston.  They are not as far from contending again as people think.  A few more bats & they have everything a contending team has (solid SP, solid BP).  Trading Clemens would be stupid.

 

If I were running HOU I would trade Pettitte over Oswalt. Oswalt is one of the finest young RHers in the game today.  Building for 2006 with Clemens, Oswalt, & Backe is a good plan.  You just need to buy another LHSP to go with Rodriquez & their set.

 

HOU stands 7 gb in the NL WC race.  That's certainly not insurmountable given what they did last year.  They need a LF badly & a LH in their pen.  They might be willing to spend Pettitte to get it.  That's not a bad move on their part.  The White Sox certainly have what they need.  Both in the majors & on the farm.

reunite everett with the astros could be a possibility.